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Affirmative Action needed for whites

RightinNYC

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Average Salary of College Educated Asian American Woman in 2003 - $43,656
Average Salary of College Educated black American Woman in 2003 - $41,066
Average Salary of College Educated white American Woman in 2003 - $37,761

Source: Time Magazine - 4/11/2005

Anyone got any thoughts on this?
 

Arch Enemy

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I think it time it will even itself out. I am glad that the blacks are taking this opportunity to make better lives for themselves. They are on their way out of the Ghetto and in due time they will be more up to date like us whites.

No I don't think this is a problem yet...

By the way, does this poll include Professional sport players who graduated from college?
 

RightinNYC

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Arch Enemy said:
I think it time it will even itself out. I am glad that the blacks are taking this opportunity to make better lives for themselves. They are on their way out of the Ghetto and in due time they will be more up to date like us whites.

No I don't think this is a problem yet...

By the way, does this poll include Professional sport players who graduated from college?
The point I'm trying to make with this poll is that Affirmative Action has succeeded in what it tried to do, and has perhaps gone a bit overboard. There's no real reason for it to continue, as it is doing more harm than help.

I have no idea if that poll includes "Professional sport players who graduated from college." Why would it matter if it did?
 

Arch Enemy

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most of them are black, a known fact, but they also make much more than any other type of normal profession.
 

RightinNYC

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Arch Enemy said:
most of them are black, a known fact, but they also make much more than any other type of normal profession.
This survey is about women, not men. What professional sport do women, black or white, make a lot of money in?

And most of them are not black. Where do you get your information from? Aside from the Williams sisters, and some women in the WNBA, there are few professional black female athletes, especially ones that make lots of money.

Of the 100 highest paid athletes, 5 are women. Two (the Williams sisters) are black, and the other three are white.

This is all besides the point, because there is no way that professional athletes salaries would throw off this survey by that much.
 

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Went searching a bit and found some further info on the website savingadvice.com (emphasis mine):

In a bit of a surprise, the Census Bureau reported that Black and Asian women with a 4 year bachelor's degrees earn slightly more than similarly educated white women. At no surprise at all, white men with 4 year bachelor's degrees make more than anyone else.

According a the Census Bureau, a white woman with a 4 year bachelor's degree earn approximately $37,800 in 2003. This compared to approximately $43,700 earned by an Asian woman with the same education and approximately $41,100 for a black woman. Hispanic women came in on the bottom of the list with salaries of approximately $37,600 a year for a 4 year bachelor's education.

The Census Bureau data failed to explain why this gap in incomes existed, but economists and sociologists suggest a number of possible factors that may have a contributing effect:

- Minority women, and especially black women, work at more than one job compared to white women

- Minority women may work longer hours than white women

- Minority women take less time off for child birth than white women

- Minority women may get special income incentives to work in certain fields that white women would not

While the Census numbers were a bright spot for professional black women, they do not hide other troubling figures. This includes the fact that nearly 40% of families with a single black woman as the head of household were in poverty. This nearly double the percentage of head of household single white women living in poverty, according to previously released Census data in 2004.
If minority women with a Bachelor's degree earn more than white women, I say we've come a long way and it's something to be proud of. Would it be a good thing if the figures were the other way around? Maybe, maybe not. But compared to the wage discrepancies between men and women of any and all races, I think this slight difference in wages among women is nothing to worry about.

:) SE
 
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RightinNYC

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SpheryEyne said:
If minority women with a Bachelor's degree earn more than white women, I say we've come a long way and it's something to be proud of. Would it be a good thing if the figures were the other way around? Maybe, maybe not. But compared to the wage discrepancies between men and women of any and all races, I think this slight difference in wages among women is nothing to worry about.

:) SE
I agree, my point wasn't that we actually need Affirmative Action for whites, it was that there is no reason for it to exist anymore. All of the possible reasons suggested in that quote are not empirically based, and don't prove anything.
 

shuamort

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RightatNYU said:
I agree, my point wasn't that we actually need Affirmative Action for whites, it was that there is no reason for it to exist anymore. All of the possible reasons suggested in that quote are not empirically based, and don't prove anything.
How are you defining affirmative action and what laws are you specifically objecting against?
 

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I agree, my point wasn't that we actually need Affirmative Action for whites, it was that there is no reason for it to exist anymore.
I would disagree on a reflexive basis. I don't know that the data quoted, which applies only to women who have earned a 4-year degree from a university, gives enough of a reason for the discontinuation of a program which is a partial reason that minority women have made these tremendous gains.

At the same time, we know that among the same college-educated men, whites have a tremendous lead over other races. According to this article, the similar stats for males look something like this:

Average Salary of College Educated Asian American Man in 2003 - $52,000
Average Salary of College Educated black American Man in 2003 - $45,000
Average Salary of College Educated white American Man in 2003 - $66,000

There still exists a massive gap here (not to mention the gender gap in all racial categories) between the front-running whites and the rest of the people. The reason for affirmative action is still very much alive and present today.

SE
 

RightinNYC

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shuamort said:
How are you defining affirmative action and what laws are you specifically objecting against?
I am against any and every form of racial quotas, preferential treatment for specific minorities (while not for others), or advantages offered based on race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

It's funny actually, many people on the left are pushing for NYU to adopt a clause in its constitution that there will not be any discrimination for any of these things, and that everything will be decided blindly. This clause would invalidate affirmative action.
 

RightinNYC

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SpheryEyne said:
I would disagree on a reflexive basis. I don't know that the data quoted, which applies only to women who have earned a 4-year degree from a university, gives enough of a reason for the discontinuation of a program which is a partial reason that minority women have made these tremendous gains.

At the same time, we know that among the same college-educated men, whites have a tremendous lead over other races. According to this article, the similar stats for males look something like this:

Average Salary of College Educated Asian American Man in 2003 - $52,000
Average Salary of College Educated black American Man in 2003 - $45,000
Average Salary of College Educated white American Man in 2003 - $66,000

There still exists a massive gap here (not to mention the gender gap in all racial categories) between the front-running whites and the rest of the people. The reason for affirmative action is still very much alive and present today.

SE

But Affirmative Action is not helping. In fact, recent studies from Stanford have shown that AA programs at law schools are actually HURTING black students. here

Affirmative Action tells blacks, latinos, and women that they aren't good enough to succeed on their own.

It also presupposes that they need help because they're discriminated against. What about Asians? Asians don't qualify for AA, but they're a minority too. They face the same "hatreds" as other minorities, but why don't they get it?
 

shuamort

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RightatNYU said:
I am against any and every form of racial quotas, preferential treatment for specific minorities (while not for others), or advantages offered based on race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

It's funny actually, many people on the left are pushing for NYU to adopt a clause in its constitution that there will not be any discrimination for any of these things, and that everything will be decided blindly. This clause would invalidate affirmative action.
OK, so what specific laws of affirmative action are you against?
 

RightinNYC

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shuamort said:
OK, so what specific laws of affirmative action are you against?
I am against any and every form of racial quotas, preferential treatment for specific minorities (while not for others), or advantages offered based on race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
All of them.
 

RightinNYC

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shuamort said:
OK, just a couple examples then.
Preferential treatment for women, blacks, indians, and latinos in college and law school admissions.

Title IX (lumped in with the others).

Minority only bidding for govt projects.

Attempts to create "representative diversity" by selecting people based on things like race or sex.
 
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