Affirmative Action and Equal Protection

[astudent16]

How exactly is affirmative action in college admissions consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment?
Apparently, this student scored a perfect 2400 SAT score and had a 4.0 GPA. He ended up getting wait listed then rejected by all the Ivy League colleges he applied to. The caveat: he was Asian.
Stories like this make me question how much the government really values the Constitution...

The Admissions Race | The Amherst Student

 

[Master PO]

How exactly is affirmative action in college admissions consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment?
Apparently, this student scored a perfect 2400 SAT score and had a 4.0 GPA. He ended up getting wait listed then rejected by all the Ivy League colleges he applied to. The caveat: he was Asian.
Stories like this make me question how much the government really values the Constitution...

The Admissions Race | The Amherst Student

the 14th amendment applies to governments only, because is says ...the state.

government imposed affirmative action is unconstitutional, as is many things the government engages in.

 

[Thoreau72]

Affirmative Action sounds like a good idea, but in fact it is unconstitutional. Rather a case of "feel good sophistry."

 

[Schweddy]

How exactly is affirmative action in college admissions consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment?
Apparently, this student scored a perfect 2400 SAT score and had a 4.0 GPA. He ended up getting wait listed then rejected by all the Ivy League colleges he applied to. The caveat: he was Asian.
Stories like this make me question how much the government really values the Constitution...

The Admissions Race | The Amherst Student

Interesting. As a graduate student at UT Dallas I do not agree with this guys conclusion.

Chinese students have access to SAT, ACT, and GMAT tests within the month of taking it. It is a very lucrative business. Many of our Chinese students resell 'tests' by memory. Some have been caught taking pictures of the tests to sell over the internet. Our school is cracking down on this behavior. This guy with his 4.0 and perfect SAT is a perfect candidate. It has been proven that if the professor does not use a test bank, the grades of the Chinese students become slightly below average. Remember that Chinese students are taught from an early age how to memorize. The US for instance, attempts to teach our children how to think. Big difference.

Also, many colleges are looking for diversity and not necessarily the GPA. A quality university wants a student to be involved and be active. I would love to see this guys high school resume. I am sure he is very smart, but I doubt he was very active at all.

 

[AGENT J]

How exactly is affirmative action in college admissions consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment?
Apparently, this student scored a perfect 2400 SAT score and had a 4.0 GPA. He ended up getting wait listed then rejected by all the Ivy League colleges he applied to. The caveat: he was Asian.
Stories like this make me question how much the government really values the Constitution...

The Admissions Race | The Amherst Student

thats NOT AA/EO, those colleges can call it what ever they want thats not what it is. AA/EO is very specific and any points given to anybody is exactly what AA/EO is not.

Actually colleges have been sued and successfully for having quotas or special systems to give points based on nothing but gender or race etc. This is not a GOVERNMENT issues as far as government making this happen.

They call it AA/EO but its not, its simple word game they try to hide behind.

This is why laws have been passed in certain states etc the prohibited this type of activity because its NOT AA/EO.

The GOVERNMENTS definition of AA/EO specifically does not allow systems like that.

The real issue is people/orgs/companies calling something AA/EO when its factually not and they get away with it until somebody pushes the issues and they get slapped.

 

[Smeagol]

How exactly is affirmative action in college admissions consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment?
Apparently, this student scored a perfect 2400 SAT score and had a 4.0 GPA. He ended up getting wait listed then rejected by all the Ivy League colleges he applied to. The caveat: he was Asian.
Stories like this make me question how much the government really values the Constitution...

The Admissions Race | The Amherst Student

Colleges, especially Ivy League colleges get a lot of students with perfect GPAs and SAT scores. Many also have data that shows students with perfect grades in high school don't always make the best college students just like Heisman Trophy winners from NCAA college football don't always make the best NFL players.

In the possession of a ton of applications with perfect grades and only have room for 10% of the applicants (not uncommon at all), the admissions people then seek to build a campus community that fosters the best learning environment for the students. They look at things like:

- Does the student show a tendency to just lock themselves in their room and only focus on their school work or do they enjoy being involved in extra-curricular things that would make campus life more vibrant.
- Do they bring a unique experience to the campus setting that would help other students see the world in a more encompassing way. This student a war refugee. This student speaks more than one language. This student hosted a foreign exchange student. This student majoring in bio-medical science lost a parent to illness. This student who wants to be a judge was severely affected by crime. This student went with their church to the third world for 3 years in a row to build fresh water wells. This student volunteered for a political campaign. This student would be the first in their family to go to college making great grades and walking their straight and narrow while others in their family served time in jail. This student started a science or history club in high school. This student raises awareness and money to combat human trafficking. This student was raised by a single mother and lived in a high crime area and did well in school despite unique challenges.

Then they have just as many applicants who stay in their room and watch MTV but they all make great grades. Or they might have a zillion applicants involved in that same extra-curricular focus and they want a diverse campus culture. Again, they ALL make great grades. They have a choice to make: Either institute a first come first serve policy that could very well lead to a more ho-hum campus culture or they can hand select applicants to create the most diverse and vibrant campus culture possible that would enhance the total educational experience for the entire student body seeking to cross-pollinate the amazingly unique life experiences of the student body with each other while getting flack for not having room to accept every student despite their perfect grades and get of accused of basing their admissions on a race-based quota by those who don't understand the process or the mission.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Interesting. As a graduate student at UT Dallas I do not agree with this guys conclusion.

Chinese students have access to SAT, ACT, and GMAT tests within the month of taking it. It is a very lucrative business. Many of our Chinese students resell 'tests' by memory. Some have been caught taking pictures of the tests to sell over the internet. Our school is cracking down on this behavior. This guy with his 4.0 and perfect SAT is a perfect candidate. It has been proven that if the professor does not use a test bank, the grades of the Chinese students become slightly below average. Remember that Chinese students are taught from an early age how to memorize. The US for instance, attempts to teach our children how to think. Big difference.

Also, many colleges are looking for diversity and not necessarily the GPA. A quality university wants a student to be involved and be active. I would love to see this guys high school resume. I am sure he is very smart, but I doubt he was very active at all.

So it's OK because the student was Chinese? Your signature is very applicable for this post.

 

[HonestJoe]

Stories like this make me question how much the government really values the Constitution...

I suggest that "the government" is just a collection of Americans so it values the Constitution as variably and conditionally as Americans in general. After all, if they'd stuck to the principals of the 14th Amendment in the first place, "Affirmative Action" in all it's flawed glory, wouldn't even exist as a concept.

 

[Schweddy]

So it's OK because the student was Chinese? Your signature is very applicable for this post.

I did not mean to say that it was BECAUSE of the person's race. The idea is that his history is suspicious, plus if you read my last line I believe it might have been because the person was not very active in his community. There are many factors universities consider. I believe there is an underlying issue with this student that is beyond race.

BTW, I completely disagree with affirmative action in any form.

 

[astudent16]

Interesting. As a graduate student at UT Dallas I do not agree with this guys conclusion.

Chinese students have access to SAT, ACT, and GMAT tests within the month of taking it. It is a very lucrative business. Many of our Chinese students resell 'tests' by memory. Some have been caught taking pictures of the tests to sell over the internet. Our school is cracking down on this behavior. This guy with his 4.0 and perfect SAT is a perfect candidate. It has been proven that if the professor does not use a test bank, the grades of the Chinese students become slightly below average. Remember that Chinese students are taught from an early age how to memorize. The US for instance, attempts to teach our children how to think. Big difference.

Also, many colleges are looking for diversity and not necessarily the GPA. A quality university wants a student to be involved and be active. I would love to see this guys high school resume. I am sure he is very smart, but I doubt he was very active at all.

While the article makes it obvious that the applicant was Asian-American, I'm not sure why you assumed that he is Chinese. Surely, not all Asian-Americans are Chinese, and surely, not all Chinese students engage in the practices that you mention. Test scores are clearly imperfect measures of ability (the SAT probably does have a cultural bias against minority and low-income students), yet all else equal, if a college admits one applicant with lower objective credentials than another, there must be a compelling reason. Race is not such a reason.

"It has been proven that if the professor does not use a test bank, the grades of the Chinese students become slightly below average."
I would love to see the study for this.

"Remember that Chinese students are taught from an early age how to memorize. The US for instance, attempts to teach our children how to think."
I assume by Chinese students you refer to Chinese international students. I find this a gross generalization, but regardless the applicant was born in and grew up in the United States and attended an American public high school. He was not taught "how to think" any less than any other American student of any other race.

"I would love to see this guys high school resume. I am sure he is very smart, but I doubt he was very active at all."
It's my personal understanding that he was very active at his high school community. For example, I know that he was President of the school's IB Student Association and Vice-President of the debate team.

 

[Goshin]

How exactly is affirmative action in college admissions consistent with the Fourteenth Amendment?
Apparently, this student scored a perfect 2400 SAT score and had a 4.0 GPA. He ended up getting wait listed then rejected by all the Ivy League colleges he applied to. The caveat: he was Asian.
Stories like this make me question how much the government really values the Constitution...

The Admissions Race | The Amherst Student

I'll tell ya a secret: It isn't, and everyone knows it.

 

[Schweddy]

While the article makes it obvious that the applicant was Asian-American, I'm not sure why you assumed that he is Chinese. Surely, not all Asian-Americans are Chinese, and surely, not all Chinese students engage in the practices that you mention. Test scores are clearly imperfect measures of ability (the SAT probably does have a cultural bias against minority and low-income students), yet all else equal, if a college admits one applicant with lower objective credentials than another, there must be a compelling reason. Race is not such a reason.

You are right. Bad assumption on my behalf. However the majority of international students that are Asian are Chinese.
Global Flow of Tertiary-Level Students

"It has been proven that if the professor does not use a test bank, the grades of the Chinese students become slightly below average."
I would love to see the study for this.

So would I. This was evidenced in our classroom after the teacher caught a majority of students cheating but was unable to prove it. This is not uncommon. So, she created a test for the class and made sure to the best of her ability that cheating was next to impossible. Domestic students scored slightly higher than the Chinese students. Very small sample, but there were more than 30 Chinese students (86) which accounts for a statistical possibility. She went on to prove this twice in another class as well.

"Remember that Chinese students are taught from an early age how to memorize. The US for instance, attempts to teach our children how to think."
I assume by Chinese students you refer to Chinese international students. I find this a gross generalization, but regardless the applicant was born in and grew up in the United States and attended an American public high school. He was not taught "how to think" any less than any other American student of any other race.

I think you are reading too much into what I said or at least attempted to say. If he grew up in the US, you are correct I made a false analogy.

"I would love to see this guys high school resume. I am sure he is very smart, but I doubt he was very active at all."
It's my personal understanding that he was very active at his high school community. For example, I know that he was President of the school's IB Student Association and Vice-President of the debate team.

Universities normally jump at this type of person, there is clearly a dimension that is not being said about him. Was he too late in applying? Does he have an arrest record? Is his family tied to Communist Party (on FBI watch list)? There could be any number of reasons, but race I do not buy.