• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Adderall: ADHD, Cheating, and Legalization [W:13]

Adderall & ADHD Poll:

  • ADHD/ADD exists.

    Votes: 9 56.3%
  • ADHD/ADD does not exist.

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • Only ppl with prescriptions should use medication.

    Votes: 8 50.0%
  • Adderall should be legalized for all.

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • It's cheating for normal ppl to use drugs like Adderall.

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • It's not cheating for normal ppl to use drugs like Adderall.

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • ADHD/ADD shouldn't be treated with drugs.

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • ADHD/ADD is overly-diagnosed.

    Votes: 11 68.8%
  • Adderall and other drugs like it aren't addicting.

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • ADHD/ADD meds are too expensive.

    Votes: 3 18.8%

  • Total voters
    16

Wake

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
18,536
Reaction score
2,438
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I'm a 24-year-old student with ADHD. I was recently prescribed a prescription for Adderall (60 tablets po q day). One minute prior to writing this thread, I took my first pill.

There are a few issues about this drug that I'd like to talk with you about. I want to know what you think of this medication, if it should be legalized for everyone, if "normal" people should abuse the drug for academic gain, etc. There are many things about my disorder and medication that I know, but I'd like to garner some good feedback on these issues regardless. If you would also read this article from Serendipity, I think it will give a more comprehensive perspective on what messages I'm meaning to share with you:

Adderall: College Students' Best Friend-- Or Worst Enemy?? | Serendip Studio


In accordance with DP's Fair Use rules I can't share more of the article.

Wikipedia also shares an article on Adderall that I think is important to this discussion:

Adderall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Basically Kristin Jenkins (the author) is arguing against those normal students who use this drug for academic gain. Genius, like power, is utterly seductive. She continues to argue her point of view while providing cited sources to back up her argument.

To paraphrase some of the article, ADHD is a neurological and heritable disorder that can be passed on from parent to child. Scientists don't 100% know everything about the disorder, but they do know a lot about it. They know that ADHD affects the frontal cortex, and that that area of the brain deals with reasoning, planning, focusing, and problem solving. Dopamine, which is an important neurotransmitter dealing with that part of the brain, is deficient. Without "normal" amounts of this chemical, those executive functions suffer. This is why Adderall is prescribed; it helps to balance out these problems.

There are a few arguments in a nutshell I'd like to go over with you on this drug, it's control, the disorder itself, and basic drug policy.

1) Do you think ADHD/ADD exists? There are some out there that think my disorder is made-up, and that we simply need to "shape up" and try harder. To me that's both ignorant and offensive to those who actually suffer with the disorder. How would you feel if I told you your loved one suffering with bipolar disorder or depression was simply not trying hard enough and he/she simply had a made-up problem? You probably wouldn't like that. In truth ADHD/ADD is heritable. If two adults have ADHD/ADD, the chances of their children having the disorder increase. We're not faking; we exist.

2) Do you think it's cheating if "normal" people using this Schedule II drugs are cheating? Personally I think they are, because it's a prescription drug not intended for people with already-normal levels of dopamine and other chemicals in their brains. I am particularly curious what libertarians think on this issue, and if it's simple a matter of "personal choice." Also, if normal students taking Adderall is cheating, what else is cheating? Does this include caffiene, supplements, and other chemical means of academic enhancement?

3) As mentioned earlier in #2, do you think Adderall should be legalized for all to use? If you think either yes or no, why? Do you think policy should change on this?

This poll will be a little different: it's Multiple Choice. Please click on the options of the poll you agree with.
 
That sums up most of the points I planned to share. There are also quite a few comments from the Serendip article I shared with you that I'd like to post here, to give an even deeper perspective on the issue.





 
It doesn't look beneficial.
 
I don't see a change.
 
Would you please share your thoughts on the topic?

Maybe it's just kickin' in. Let's wait a minute and see.
 
Personally I think the meds are way too expensive. About 2 years ago I was prescribed 30 pills of Adderall XR (extended release) but then I lost my insurance. For only 30 pills at 20 mg it was around $280-$300. :shock: There's got to be a way for these medications to be cheaper. For regular Adderal it's around $77-$81 for 60 tablets at 10 mg.
 
Aside from academic issues it seems that ADHD/ADD, like many treatable mental conditions, are over diagnosed simply to secure the treatment fees and the associated profit. This is not limitted to only medical/mental health professionals but pubic schools as well - the public school gets extra federal fundung for each such "special needs" student from the federal gov't.

With recent talk of adding those with mental/behavioral "problems" to the NICS (national "criminal" database) used for gun rights determination, extreme caution should be exercised in getting such a diagnosis. While it may help those in their early years it may have lasting repercussions later in life as well.

I am of mixed feelings when it comes to mental/behavioral issues; while many may be correctly diagnosed and successfully treated, it seems that many (more?) are simply given "happy pills" to reduce the burden of many natural tendencies of some to be more unruley than "normal". After all, if it an illness then no personal blame/responsibility can be assumed for adding to or not properly dealing with that condidtion/deficiency.
 
I knew people in college who would crush and snort the drug. To each their own I guess.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Let's stick to the topic, folks.
 
Re: Adderall: ADHD, Cheating, and Legalization


I really appreciate your input.

Being a bit biased on the issue, I'm not really sure exactly how overdiagnosed our children are. It's probably true that there are those hyper-yet-normal children who've been diagnosed with something they don't have. There is criteria, though, from impulsivity and innatentiveness, to hyper-activity and the ability to hyper-focus. Also people with ADD/ADHD are typically of-above-average intelligence and are very creative, but they can't really focus or remember, and get bored very quickly of things they hate, like dieting, chores, studies 9unless interesting), etc. When I think of ADD, it's less of an Attention Deficit Disorder and more of an Attention Displacement Disorder.

WOAH. Is the NICS actually considering blocking people with ADD/ADHD from owning/using firearms? If so, that's lame and I'm 100% against it.

One thing that can be discerned when it comes to normal and ADD/ADHD people taking Adderal is that...

...if a normal person takes it, they already have normal levels of dopamine and other chemicals in their system. I've read that if they take Adderall, they'll start feeling a LOT more hyper and anxious. However, if a person with ADD/ADHD takes it, they're already dealing with the constant unwanted thoughts and unwanted behavior, and for some reason the drug with actually calm the person, allowing those unwanted thought to stop blocking the mind. The "filter" that allows normal people to block out normals thoughts and focus on one thign is "broken," making it so the sufferer is often over-stimulated, stressed, overwhelmed, anxious, and innatentive... the person also has a tendency to be impatient and rambles a lot.
 
Last edited:
i'm not extraordinarily concerned with what other people put in their bodies. when i was in college, it was high doses of caffeine via jolt and Ale 81. now it's adderall.

i've not read anything convincing that points to AHDH being total BS. it's overdiagnosed, though, and i worry about putting any mind-altering chemicals in the brains of little kids, because the brain is wiring itself at that point. college kids are at least technically adults, and can make their own decisions.

is it "cheating?" who knows. i never used it, but i was pretty good at using fear as a motivator to make me stick to my studies. if i had lost my academic scholarship, i might have had to go to another school, because my parents would have sold themselves into the poorhouse trying to help me out otherwise. plus, i guess i am just kind of naturally good at taking tests. is my genetic makeup "cheating?" in a broader sense, maybe.

i have trouble throwing stones, also. i have OCD, and there's a significant social anxiety aspect which has sometimes prevented me from thriving in social situations. i'm also a musician, and the chances of me getting onstage without the help of alcohol back in the day are pretty slim. in some sense, that could be classified as a performance enhancing drug for recluses like me.

as for OTC adderall, there would have to be significant studies done before i'd sign off on it. if i had a kid, i'd advise him or her to be very careful with it. and as with any chemical, dosage is key.
 
Re: Adderall: ADHD, Cheating, and Legalization


NICS is simply a database, how it is used is up the applicable statutes, one of which is the federal Brady Act that now simply requires felony convictions, certifcation of mental disability and domestic abuse "charges"/restraining orders to restrict legal gun purchases/ownership. There is talk of expanding the mental/behvioral "connditions" to get one placed in the "no gun" category, especially after the infamous VA tech campus shooting, and with even more recent "hyperactivity" based on the CT school shooting. I have not seen ADHD/ADD included in this frenzy of discussion yet, but would not count it out; after all, there a lot of folks out there, with this condidtion, and one of them is bound to do something bad, with a gun, eventually.
 
I knew people in college who would crush and snort the drug. To each their own I guess.

That is VERY dangerous. The pharmacy instructions that come with the pills state you should never do that. Iirc, the sinus cavities are delicate, so if you crush up the valeric acid in Adderall XR pills (I think?), the acid could eat their way through the cavities and cause immense damage and even death. That's why with Adderall XR you should eith swallow the pill or open the capsules and release the little spheres of medicine into somethinglike applesauce. NEVER crush 'em up and snort.
 

Didn't say I did it BTW. Just pointing out that people do use it for things other than its purpose....
 
i'm not extraordinarily concerned with what other people put in their bodies. when i was in college, it was high doses of caffeine via jolt and Ale 81. now it's adderall.

While I can agree with the fact that students are looking for the next best tool to survive the pressures of college...

...Adderall is nowehere near a few ups of caffienated coffee and such. If ADHD/ADD could be fixed on coffee alone, they'd be prescribed caffiene. Adderall is dangerous for normal people who don't need it.


It's overdiagnosed, but it's not BS in the slightest. It's a genetic and neurological disorder that can be inherited via adults with it. My views is that it's cheating if normal peopel take it, but "leveling the playing field" when people with the damaged mind (ADD/ADHD) take it to be normal and receive a better quality lifestyle. Imagine being highly intelligent, but not being able to focus and remember, thus not being able to really retain and use information. That, and Adderall ALSO treats the social and other behavioral issues of the disorder, like anxiety and innatentiveness. There are also side-effects, like loss of creativity, cold fingers, nausea, and major lack of appetite (all of which I'm feeling right now).

I don't have OCD, and I don't understand it really at all... Sounds like it's a different sort of struggle.

Dosage is definitely key, so it's typical medical practice to start patients off on lower doses and slowly increase it, considering the patient's blood pressure, reactions, side effects, improved quality of life, etc. It's sensitive data, but my doctor yesterday put me on a low-sodium diet plan to counteract that BP-increasing effects of the medication. My BP was 160/90, so if I keep eating bad foods and not doing much to lower my BP, I could face stroke, heart attack, and other cardiovascular problems. Every week I need to check my BP twice and jot it down on a chart my doctor gave me. I've got a month, and if I can't get it at or below 120/60(?), I'll have to stop taking it and take beta-blockers to bet my BP under control. Dosage and observace is key.
 
Last edited:

i don't have any direct experience with it. i was on a couple different meds for OCD, though, and i experienced some of the same side effects. some wore off quickly; others left me feeling foggy brained and not as creative. there were other side effects that i didn't like, also. i ditched the pills and decided to think my way around it. i might eventually try something else, but i do pretty well with behavioral strategies.

anyway, good luck with your treatment. hope that it works well for you.
 
absolutely
and from your posts, i am not the least bit surprised this has been prescribed for you
i suspect it will allow you to process your thinking more linearly

surprised anyone would actually challenge that the disorder exists. it's pretty easy as a layman to suspect those who have ADD/ADHD. also pretty easy to tell when they have begun their adderall regimen

cheating? no
healthy? not likely. but then when i was a young adult i had to explore every desirable drug on the planet for myself. for some cohort, that led to a problem. but many of us just have to see for ourselves what the effects are
3) As mentioned earlier in #2, do you think Adderall should be legalized for all to use? If you think either yes or no, why? Do you think policy should change on this?
i think all drugs should be legal for anyone of age 21
and we should rigidly enforce all stupidity that results from taking those drugs
for those under age - and they are many - only by script
This poll will be a little different: it's Multiple Choice. Please click on the options of the poll you agree with.
i hope your experience with adderall is a positive one long term
 
ADHD exists for sure, question is what to do about it. There are many medications and techniques that can be used that aren't determined by corporate pharmacies, American pharmacies never focus on real health but on how to make their profits. Adderall should be available for patients, but shouldn't be the only way out.
 
Of course ADD w/H exists, I am the one to know..
O'er 70 years of this, mostly un diagnosed..
No "meds" now, but I can be difficult...
Our nation needs an education plus
and fewer conservatives
and less pills
and more tolerance.
We also need work on responsibility...
Neither drugs nor guns are a joke as some treat them.
"Recreational" - my arse !
There is no such thing, drugs are as dangerous as guns.

Complicity comes to mind here, those who just leave their prescription drugs laying about are just this, a one year stretch in a mental hospital might improve their attitude.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…