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ACLU verse Christmas/Christianity

ptsdkid

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* ACLU opposed all signs of Christmas in public places, including the singing of “Silent Night”, nativity scenes, and the depiction of Shepard’s and wise men.
* ACLU forced the U.S. Park Service to remove these bronze plaques from the Grand Canyon because they contained Bible verses.
* ACLU demanded that a Bible be removed from a granite memorial in Houston.
* ACLU opposed a fundraising concert to benefit a county agency that served children because the scheduled program included Gospel music.
* ACLU pressured a school district into denying Christians rebuttal time after a pro-homosexual organization had presented an assembly program.
* ACLU forced the City of Los Angeles to remove a cross from its seal, which contained other historical symbols as well.
* ACLU sued a Louisiana school district because the teachers organized an adult prayer group.

The ACLU wants to end Christmas as a Holiday, remove “In God We Trust” from money, stop Congress from each day in prayer, stop courts from using a Bible to swear in Witnesses, end the practice of using the Bible for the Presidential oath, force the Boy Scouts to remove any mention of God from their oath if they utilize public facilities or land, and to accept openly homosexual Scout Masters, remove all Christian Religion Scripture passages and symbols from headstones in military cemeteries and all public properties, outlaw government employees from bringing Bibles to work, even if they will be read only during breaks of lunch, stop government employees from displaying the Ten Commandments or other Christian religious texts in their offices, discontinue tax-deductible contributions to churches, etc. And Liberal Democrats agree with this anti-Christian agenda.

Bill Press the liberal co-host of the TV show “Crossfire” has a new book titled “How the Republicans Stole Christmas”. Quite an ironic title when you figure that it’s the liberals backed by the ACLU that are trying hard to destroy the remaining vestiges of the Christmas Holiday and of the Christian Religion itself.

KidTim
 

Kandahar

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Once again, you offer no proof of any of these absurd allegations. If any of them have any factual basis at all, it's because the government was trying to force religion using taxpayer dollars. The ACLU has consistently defended the rights of Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, and any other group to practice their religion (or not practice any religion) as they please.

So let's see some evidence for these claims.
 

MSgt

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ACLU versus........um...everything. Everything is against our civil liberties and our rights according to the ACLU.
 

Engimo

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GySgt said:
ACLU versus........um...everything. Everything is against our civil liberties and our rights according to the ACLU.
No, things that are against our civil liberties and rights are against our civil liberties and rights according to the ACLU.
 

ptsdkid

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Kandahar said:
Once again, you offer no proof of any of these absurd allegations. If any of them have any factual basis at all, it's because the government was trying to force religion using taxpayer dollars. The ACLU has consistently defended the rights of Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, and any other group to practice their religion (or not practice any religion) as they please.

So let's see some evidence for these claims.
***I put the names of the cities or states next to each offensive legal action of the ACLU. I forgot to mention that the ones I listed were but a few of the hundreds of such ACLU attacks on Christianity. There wouldn't be room here to list the thousands of attacks the ACLU has levied against every other custom and freedom that we enjoy here in the states.

If you need to see a list of these offenses--I suggest you type 'ACLU attacking Christianity' into your favorite search engine to satisfy your uninterested and ill-informed nature to this serious problem. I suppose, if you're too lazy to do the search yourself--I could always post a few of the many web sites here, if indeed you were to ask politely.

KidTim
 

Engimo

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ptsdkid said:
***I put the names of the cities or states next to each offensive legal action of the ACLU. I forgot to mention that the ones I listed were but a few of the hundreds of such ACLU attacks on Christianity. There wouldn't be room here to list the thousands of attacks the ACLU has levied against every other custom and freedom that we enjoy here in the states.

If you need to see a list of these offenses--I suggest you type 'ACLU attacking Christianity' into your favorite search engine to satisfy your uninterested and ill-informed nature to this serious problem. I suppose, if you're too lazy to do the search yourself--I could always post a few of the many web sites here, if indeed you were to ask politely.

KidTim
I suggest you type "ACLU defending Christians" into your favorite search engine to satisfy your uninterested and ill-informed nature to this total lack of a problem. I won't be a dick, though, I'll post some of them for you:

September 20, 2005: ACLU of New Jersey joins lawsuit supporting second-grader's right to sing "Awesome God" at a talent show.

August 4, 2005: ACLU helps free a New Mexico street preacher from prison.

May 25, 2005: ACLU sues Wisconsin prison on behalf of a Muslim woman who was forced to remove her headscarf in front of male guards and prisoners.

February 2005: ACLU of Pennsylvania successfully defends the right of an African American Evangelical church to occupy a church building purchased in a predominantly white parish.

December 22, 2004: ACLU of New Jersey successfully defends right of religious expression by jurors.

December 14, 2004: ACLU joins Pennsylvania parents in filing first-ever challenge to "Intelligent Design" instruction in public schools.

November 20, 2004: ACLU of Nevada supports free speech rights of evangelists to preach on the sidewalks of the strip in Las Vegas.

November 12, 2004: ACLU of Georgia files a lawsuit on behalf of parents challenging evolution disclaimers in science textbooks.

November 9, 2004: ACLU of Nevada defends a Mormon student who was suspended after wearing a T-shirt with a religious message to school.

August 11, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska defends church facing eviction by the city of Lincoln.

July 10, 2004: Indiana Civil Liberties Union defends the rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets.

June 9, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska files a lawsuit on behalf of a Muslim woman barred from a public pool because she refused to wear a swimsuit.

June 3, 2004: Under pressure from the ACLU of Virginia, officials agree not to prohibit baptisms on public property in Falmouth Waterside Park in Stafford County.

May 11, 2004: After ACLU of Michigan intervened on behalf of a Christian Valedictorian, a public high school agrees to stop censoring religious yearbook entries.

March 25, 2004: ACLU of Washington defends an Evangelical minister's right to preach on sidewalks.

February 21, 2003: ACLU of Massachusetts defends students punished for distributing candy canes with religious messages.

October 28, 2002: ACLU of Pennsylvania files discrimination lawsuit over denial of zoning permit for African American Baptist church.

July 11, 2002: ACLU supports right of Iowa students to distribute Christian literature at school.

April 17, 2002: In a victory for the Rev. Jerry Falwell and the ACLU of Virginia, a federal judge strikes down a provision of the Virginia Constitution that bans religious organizations from incorporating.

January 18, 2002: ACLU defends Christian church's right to run "anti-Santa" ads in Boston subways.
Yeah, the ACLU really hates Christians, defending Jerry Falwell and all.
 
H

hipsterdufus

ptsdkid said:
* ACLU opposed all signs of Christmas in public places, including the singing of “Silent Night”, nativity scenes, and the depiction of Shepard’s and wise men.
* ACLU forced the U.S. Park Service to remove these bronze plaques from the Grand Canyon because they contained Bible verses.
* ACLU demanded that a Bible be removed from a granite memorial in Houston.
* ACLU opposed a fundraising concert to benefit a county agency that served children because the scheduled program included Gospel music.
* ACLU pressured a school district into denying Christians rebuttal time after a pro-homosexual organization had presented an assembly program.
* ACLU forced the City of Los Angeles to remove a cross from its seal, which contained other historical symbols as well.
* ACLU sued a Louisiana school district because the teachers organized an adult prayer group.

The ACLU wants to end Christmas as a Holiday, remove “In God We Trust” from money, stop Congress from each day in prayer, stop courts from using a Bible to swear in Witnesses, end the practice of using the Bible for the Presidential oath, force the Boy Scouts to remove any mention of God from their oath if they utilize public facilities or land, and to accept openly homosexual Scout Masters, remove all Christian Religion Scripture passages and symbols from headstones in military cemeteries and all public properties, outlaw government employees from bringing Bibles to work, even if they will be read only during breaks of lunch, stop government employees from displaying the Ten Commandments or other Christian religious texts in their offices, discontinue tax-deductible contributions to churches, etc. And Liberal Democrats agree with this anti-Christian agenda.

Bill Press the liberal co-host of the TV show “Crossfire” has a new book titled “How the Republicans Stole Christmas”. Quite an ironic title when you figure that it’s the liberals backed by the ACLU that are trying hard to destroy the remaining vestiges of the Christmas Holiday and of the Christian Religion itself.

KidTim
God Bless the ACLU :mrgreen:
 

Kandahar

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ptsdkid said:
***I put the names of the cities or states next to each offensive legal action of the ACLU.
Putting the name of a city is not evidence. How do I know you didn't just throw darts at a map of the United States and pick those cities? Let's see some actual EVIDENCE.

ptsdkid said:
I forgot to mention that the ones I listed were but a few of the hundreds of such ACLU attacks on Christianity. There wouldn't be room here to list the thousands of attacks the ACLU has levied against every other custom and freedom that we enjoy here in the states.
Well you don't need to list the thousands of them. You can start by just offering some evidence for the ones you've already claimed.

ptsdkid said:
If you need to see a list of these offenses--I suggest you type 'ACLU attacking Christianity' into your favorite search engine to satisfy your uninterested and ill-informed nature to this serious problem.
You're the one that made the absurd accusation, the burden of proof is on YOU, son.

ptsdkid said:
I suppose, if you're too lazy to do the search yourself--I could always post a few of the many web sites here, if indeed you were to ask politely.
I'm not asking politely. Either back your claims up, or shut the **** up and stop wasting our time.
 

ptsdkid

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Kandahar said:
Putting the name of a city is not evidence. How do I know you didn't just throw darts at a map of the United States and pick those cities? Let's see some actual EVIDENCE.

You're the one that made the absurd accusation, the burden of proof is on YOU, son.

I'm not asking politely. Either back your claims up, or shut the **** up and stop wasting our time.

****Look here Kondah, I'm not about to lead you by the hand to each and every particular courthouse that has the records of these cases in order to prove this point. Most if not all the cases I cited had been run on TV and radio for weeks before the Christmas holiday. You couldn't have watched any of the major networks or cable network news stations without being totally inundated with these stories. Unless you were living in a cave in Afganastan--then surely you would have seen the horrific gall of the ACLU in their lawsuit over the Boy Scouts.
The Hipsterdumbass above listed many more cases involving the ACLU. While he most likely got those cases from the internet (as did I with my citings)--I have no reason to doubt the validity to each posted case. Almost every case listed by the Hipsterass had to do with subjects alien to the Christian connection that I had originally alluded to. Perhaps the Hipsterass would like to represent the ACLU as to an outfit of being a fine reputable organization. We'll leave that possible scenario to another thread, and to the Hipster's want to pursue such a losing proposition.
But for now, the cases I listed are history, and they were aired publicly over the airwaves for all those to see...especially those that had an interest in America's future.

KidTim
 

Kandahar

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ptsdkid said:
****Look here Kondah, I'm not about to lead you by the hand to each and every particular courthouse that has the records of these cases in order to prove this point.
So in other words, you don't have any evidence to back up your claims. That's all I needed to hear. Thanks for playing, son.
 

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galenrox said:
The ACLU is anti-theocracy and is pro-religion. The christians who believe the ACLU is opposed to them are either theocrats or horribly uninformed.
That is true. Though there are some militant atheist groups out there that are threatening our religious freedom.
 

ptsdkid

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Kandahar said:
So in other words, you don't have any evidence to back up your claims. That's all I needed to hear. Thanks for playing, son.

Looks like you've conveniently left out the meat and potatoes of my response to you. So thanks for playing; now I've gotten a pretty good look into why you've lost every game you've played. Just curious, do you or have you ever watched the news, specifically paying attention to the political news? Perhaps if you just come out and say you're an atheist, or that you despise Christians and or Christianity--then you would give yourself some merit here on a debate forum. Until then, I/we have no other option than to categorize you in that elite group of lefties--better known as atheists, agnostics, anti-American, and anti-Christian fanatics....congratulations.
 

Kandahar

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ptsdkid said:
Looks like you've conveniently left out the meat and potatoes of my response to you.
The meat and potatoes of your response was you repeating "Watch the news, because I'm too lazy or stupid to provide evidence" over and over and over again.

If you had written anything worthy of a rebuttal, I would've done so.

ptsdkid said:
So thanks for playing; now I've gotten a pretty good look into why you've lost every game you've played. Just curious, do you or have you ever watched the news, specifically paying attention to the political news?
I don't "watch" the news, if you mean television. I prefer intelligent news commentary, as opposed to Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity.

ptsdkid said:
Perhaps if you just come out and say you're an atheist,
Yes.

ptsdkid said:
or that you despise Christians and or Christianity
No, just you.

ptsdkid said:
then you would give yourself some merit here on a debate forum. Until then, I/we have no other option than to categorize you in that elite group of lefties--better known as atheists, agnostics, anti-American, and anti-Christian fanatics....congratulations.
How idiotic. You claim that you're being persecuted because you're Christian, then in the same breath claim that all atheists hate America and Christians. Tell me, do you actually believe this crap or are you just a troll?
 

ptsdkid

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I don't "watch" the news, if you mean television. I prefer intelligent news commentary, as opposed to Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity.

How idiotic. You claim that you're being persecuted because you're Christian, then in the same breath claim that all atheists hate America and Christians. Tell me, do you actually believe this crap or are you just a troll?


****Pretell where you get this so-called 'intelligent news commentary'. It wouldn't come from Michael Moore or slate.com would it?
Again, all those ACLU lawsuits against Christianity were on every nightly news station for about a full month before and up to the Christmas Holiday.

Did you ever hear the saying, "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but so far all terrorists have been Muslims"? Well, we're going to have to modify that saying to include those that aid and abet terrorists such as atheists, liberals, pacifists, doves, socialists and communists etc.
Did you know that the more than 20 million Christians that were slaughtered during the time of the Russian Revolution were killed by leaders from Lenin up to Stalin including those professing to be atheists and or Zionists? If not atheists persecuting Christians...then whom?
 

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****Pretell where you get this so-called 'intelligent news commentary'. It wouldn't come from Michael Moore or slate.com would it?
Again, all those ACLU lawsuits against Christianity were on every nightly news station for about a full month before and up to the Christmas Holiday.[/QUOTE]
I guarantee that every single suit that you mention is supported by the Constitution and was only done in the interests of protecting religious liberty.

Did you ever hear the saying, "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but so far all terrorists have been Muslims"? Well, we're going to have to modify that saying to include those that aid and abet terrorists such as atheists, liberals, pacifists, doves, socialists and communists etc.
Not only is that untrue, it's stupid.

Jesus said:
Why do you notice the small piece of dust that is in your brother's eye, but you don't notice the big piece of wood that is in your own eye? Why do you say to your brother, 'Let me take that little piece of dust out of your eye'? Look at yourself first! You still have that big piece of wood in your own eye. You are a hypocrite. First, take the wood out of your own eye. Then you will see clearly to take the dust out of your brother's eye.
Let's see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

You've got a bit of wood in your eye there, buddy.

Did you know that the more than 20 million Christians that were slaughtered during the time of the Russian Revolution were killed by leaders from Lenin up to Stalin including those professing to be atheists and or Zionists? If not atheists persecuting Christians...then whom?
That doesn't mean that it is their atheism causing them to persecute Christians. Correlation, as they say, does not imply causation. For example, I guarantee that 100% of the people that have ever persecuted Christians breathed air in regular intervals - does that mean that all air-breathers persecute Christians? No.
 

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Engimo said:
****Pretell where you get this so-called 'intelligent news commentary'. It wouldn't come from Michael Moore or slate.com would it?
Again, all those ACLU lawsuits against Christianity were on every nightly news station for about a full month before and up to the Christmas Holiday.
I guarantee that every single suit that you mention is supported by the Constitution and was only done in the interests of protecting religious liberty.



Not only is that untrue, it's stupid.



Let's see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

You've got a bit of wood in your eye there, buddy.



That doesn't mean that it is their atheism causing them to persecute Christians. Correlation, as they say, does not imply causation. For example, I guarantee that 100% of the people that have ever persecuted Christians breathed air in regular intervals - does that mean that all air-breathers persecute Christians? No.[/QUOTE]

Still Enigmor, we see it from you and the rest of the atheist establishment, you think we Christians are stupid. Now, I would like to say I'll be looking down on you in hell if I were a fundie, but I am a Universalist and think God is like a wheel and everybody eventually finds their way to him. Still, while we are in this life, become enlightened. The deeper parts of religion are more interesting than any science experiment to prove God doesn't exist or something like that.
 

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Still Enigmor, we see it from you and the rest of the atheist establishment, you think we Christians are stupid. Now, I would like to say I'll be looking down on you in hell if I were a fundie, but I am a Universalist and think God is like a wheel and everybody eventually finds their way to him. Still, while we are in this life, become enlightened. The deeper parts of religion are more interesting than any science experiment to prove God doesn't exist or something like that.
Did I say that I thought Christians were stupid? How about you not put words in my mouth, eh? You're going off on an irrelevant tangent, anyways.

The bottom line is that the ACLU advocates Christians on a regular basis, and anyone else that is having their civil rights infringed upon. I don't know how you manage to turn that into a bad thing, but it's definitely not. The ACLU does not hate Christians, there is no left-wing conspiracy to force you to be atheists.
 

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ptsdkid said:
****Pretell where you get this so-called 'intelligent news commentary'. It wouldn't come from Michael Moore or slate.com would it?
No. Like I said I get it from INTELLIGENT sources. Do you really think that Michael Moore is intelligent? Are you incapable of telling the difference between intelligent commentators and total idiots? Well of course you are, because you fall into the latter category.

Intelligent liberals: Tom Oliphant, EJ Dionne
Stupid liberals: Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan

Intelligent conservatives: Steve Forbes, Charles Krauthammer, Bill Kristol
Stupid conservatives: Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh

ptsdkid said:
Again, all those ACLU lawsuits against Christianity were on every nightly news station for about a full month before and up to the Christmas Holiday.
Oh really. I follow the news online very closely, and get both liberal and conservative perspectives, yet I saw none of these lawsuits. So one of two things is happening here: (1) These stories didn't survive the transition to intelligent media from the dumbed-down garbage you watch on television, or (2) You simply made them up.

Given your inability to provide any evidence to support your claims, I'm gonna go with (2).

ptsdkid said:
Did you ever hear the saying, "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but so far all terrorists have been Muslims"? Well, we're going to have to modify that saying to include those that aid and abet terrorists such as atheists, liberals, pacifists, doves, socialists and communists etc.
Tell me, how does my being an atheist aid terrorists?

ptsdkid said:
Did you know that the more than 20 million Christians that were slaughtered during the time of the Russian Revolution were killed by leaders from Lenin up to Stalin including those professing to be atheists and or Zionists? If not atheists persecuting Christians...then whom?
Yeah yeah, and the crusades and Spanish Inquisition and Salem Witch Trials were caused by Christians...what of it? Who cares? You're claiming discrimination in the PRESENT and in the UNITED STATES. So don't tell me what the Russians did under Stalin as if it somehow makes your view less stupid.
 

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galenrox said:
May I say one thing?

BAM, IN YOUR MOTHER****ING FACE!

Damn that was a good bit of foolmakin'!:rock :monkey :monkey :monkey

The ACLU is anti-theocracy and is pro-religion. The christians who believe the ACLU is opposed to them are either theocrats or horribly uninformed.

Hey your buddies in the ACLU dropped these.
http://www.nationalticket.com/images/Specialty-Products/Tokens.jpg
 

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Axismaster said:
That is true. Though there are some militant atheist groups out there that are threatening our religious freedom.
Specifically who and where and how?
 
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It sounds like the ACLU is making sure that government is not wasting tax payers money, to pander to insecure Christians that crave government displays of Christinanity to reinforce their beliefs. The so called Christian nation.

Really what the ACLU are saying is that if you want religion, go to a church synagoge, mosque or temple. Or do it in your home. Religion should not be in the school, or in the government.

So if you need crappy bronze plaques in nature reserves, or nativity scences in government places, then really you are an insecure person about your faith.

If your religious belief is genuine and personal, I really don't see why a secular government is such an issue.
 

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Australianlibertarian said:
It sounds like the ACLU is making sure that government is not wasting tax payers money, to pander to insecure Christians that crave government displays of Christinanity to reinforce their beliefs. The so called Christian nation.

Really what the ACLU are saying is that if you want religion, go to a church synagoge, mosque or temple. Or do it in your home. Religion should not be in the school, or in the government.

So if you need crappy bronze plaques in nature reserves, or nativity scences in government places, then really you are an insecure person about your faith.

If your religious belief is genuine and personal, I really don't see why a secular government is such an issue.
Because if we did that....

THE ATHIESTS WOULD BE WINNING, OH MY GOD! OH JEEEEEEEEESUS! PLEASE SAVE US JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESUS.

Thats seriously what these fundamentalists think.
They act as if the amount of government sponsorship thier Religion has is the true measure of thier religion's worth.

Its actually quite pathetic.
 
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