About that confederate flag (1 Viewer)

[Tigerace117]

My commenting on your desire to see more mass executions, is not "Defending nazis".

The way you keep making up shit, is pretty shitty of you.






You're kind of raving here. I get it, you hate the South and you hate America.

And you still are afraid to answer what happened to George Wallace after he flipped on the issue of segregation. What cowardice on your part.

Fine, i will drop it, since you are so afraid of discussing the issue.

Is there a reason why people who openly and proudly committed mass atrocities, either on the Eastern Front or against African Americans and other groups that the Slaver South hated, shouldn’t be held accountable for those actions?

Whining because I trashed the Lost Cause drivel you cling to so desperately doesn’t actually change the historical facts.

And talking about “hatred of America” while being a Lost Causer is, as I already pointed out, absolutely absurd.

You being afraid to face the fact the Confederate flag represents nothing more than the South’s desperate efforts to save slavery speaks volumes.

 

[Bodecea]

Trying to conflate support for segregation with southern pride. imo.

^^trying to excuse support for segregation by saying it's just "southern pride".

 

[watsup]

YOu ever tour a plantation? I did. It was impressive the way that they were able to walk into the forest with some hand tools and build a civilization.

Your hate of them, doesn't change the fact that they have a whole regional heritage that they can and should be able to celebrate.

Is it impressive that they were able to enslave thousands upon thousands of Africans so that they did not have to do thr hard work lf the cotton fields themselves?

 

[Corbell]

It is you who is stonewalling by simply excluding an entire bloc of citizens, namely those of African-American heritage.

You are stonewalling and excluding the nation as as WHOLE from consideration.

You claim that the Confederate flag represents “heritage”. What sort of “heritage” would that be to our fellow black citizens.

Again, with the blacks, like they are all that matters.

As far as I can tell, the heritage of the Confederate flag as regards our fellow black citizens is slavery, lynching, and an entire century lf brutal segregation. Do you agree?

Nope. I don't. And neither does the southerns who fly the flag nor the nation as a whole as I have proven with my historical examples.


All you have done is stonewall, avoid answering any of my points, and tried to pivot the discussion to "blaccks".


Fairly normal behavior for you. YOU seem to not have a lot of tools in your tool box, when it comes to debating.

 

[watsup]

No, you should go read his post. DRIPPING WITH HATE.

That’s a lie, of course. It is a standard right wing feint to gratuitously insert the word “hate” into the discussion when it becomes obvious that they have nothing of actual merit to say. I am not surprised at all that you have decided to hide behind that word.

 

[Corbell]

Should the black citizens base their answers in what the whites want, or are they entitled to their own opinions.

Why do you want me to answer questions about the opinions of black citizens when you refuse to address the opinions of hte nation as a whole?

 

[Bodecea]

Ah, I see.

YOu won't say it, because clearly stating your point, allows it to be addressed.

Your unstated premise, that you are afraid to be clear about is,



that black people are morally superior to white people and thus white people must at all times defer to what black people want.

Or, more to the point, to what white liberals claim that black people want.


I don't agree.


You are being quite rude because you feel that you have the moral authority granted to you by citing "black people".


YOU are the bad guy here, not me, not southern whites. YOU.

"that black people are morally superior to white people"................who said that? Link it.

 

[Nickyjo]

The north and south fought as one, in both world wars despite differences on civil rights. Those were issues, but they were not DIVISIONS.

Years ago I remember reading a memo distributed by the French government to their officers in preparation for the arrival of US troops in WWII. It tried to explain the peculiar relationship between the races in the US, especially with respect to southerners. And I imagine that you are aware that the military was not integrated til 1948. Sounds like a description of divisions, not issues.

Regional pride.


Slavery. Not that I care at this point.



Some people tried to conflate segregation with regional pride. They failed, as demonstrated by jimmy carter sitting in an office with the flag and governing with strong civil rights programs.



Well, the claim that the UNION was assumed to be irrevokable, was pretty weak.

Perhaps, but apparently people used to say “the United States are” before the war. Afterwards it has been “the United States is.”

 

[Corbell]

Is it impressive that they were able to enslave thousands upon thousands of Africans so that they did not have to do thr hard work lf the cotton fields themselves?

The point was made that the south had no history or heritage other than slavery.

I gave one minor historical example to prove that that was false.


Your... weird obsession with whining about slavery, is irrelevant to this point/counterpoint.


The South has a right to celebrate it's heritage. All you have done is play silly games to avoid discussing the issue seriously or defending your assertions honestly.


Your behavior shows that you know you are in the wrong, otherwise, you would not be so evasive and dishonest.

 

[Nickyjo]

That they don't base their actions on what black people want?

No, that they don’t have respect for fellow Americans.

 

[Corbell]

That’s a lie, of course. It is a standard right wing feint to gratuitously insert the word “hate” into the discussion when it becomes obvious that they have nothing of actual merit to say. I am not surprised at all that you have decided to hide behind that word.

Nope. He admitted that his motive was simply to "Take this away" from us because we "enjoy it" and thus that makes him want to deprive us of it.


That was HIS words, about HIS intent.

If you can't see the hate in that, ... then you are just willfully blind. or lying about it.

 

[Corbell]

"that black people are morally superior to white people"................who said that? Link it.

Nolanvoyd has made an argument that is clearly based on that unstated premise.


Indeed, it seems to be what all you lefties are dancing around. YOu won't say it clearly, becasue then everyone can clearly see how absolutely dumb your arguments and positions are.


So, you just spout various nonsense and shit and pretend that you are saying something when you are not.

 

[Corbell]

Years ago I remember reading a memo distributed by the French government to their officers in preparation for the arrival of US troops in WWII. It tried to explain the peculiar relationship between the races in the US, especially with respect to southerners. And I imagine that you are aware that the military was not integrated til 1948. Sounds like a description of divisions, not issues.

Sounds like a racial division between races, not a regional divisions between conquerer and conquered. The Americans of the late 1800s, had a civil war to put behind them and they did.

A generation later, when the us had a war to fight in europe, we fought as one. That was my point.

Perhaps, but apparently people used to say “the United States are” before the war. Afterwards it has been “the United States is.”

Yes, the issue was settled by force of arms and an ocean of blood. Doesn't mean that going into it, that the argument was not settled.

 

[Corbell]

No, that they don’t have respect for fellow Americans.

I have repeatedly demonstrated in this thread, with historical examples that though most of our post civil war history that the confederate battle flag was accepted by AMERICA AS AS WHOLE.


It is your side of the argument that is not having respect for your fellow Americans, not mine.

 

[Nickyjo]

Sounds like a racial division between races, not a regional divisions between conquerer and conquered.

True

The Americans of the late 1800s, had a civil war to put behind them and they did.

Not true. Not for a century past the Civil War.

A generation later, when the us had a war to fight in europe, we fought as one. That was my point.

In a segregated military.

Yes, the issue was settled by force of arms and an ocean of blood. Doesn't mean that going into it, that the argument was not settled.

 

[Grand Mal]

mmm, if you say so. I haven't toured say... other sites of colonies, but regardless, it was an impressive feat to be celebrated.

Oh, I get it, you were just talking to NOT address my point. ie that the South has more to it's history than slavery, and so, can celebrate it's history without celebrating slavery.

Much like America can.






Please show me OTHER historical "blunders" from centuries ago, that you have discussed on this site, bitching about it, like it matters today.

I will assume that you spoutn nonsense to hide the point that you don't whine about other historical blunders, and thus my point that you hate the SOuth is proved.

Oh, I don't hate the south. I just shake my head at the stupidity of the CSA.
All that stuff you admire about the south, creating a vibrant culture, turning wilderness into thriving farms, that stuff was done by Americans. Citizens of the United States of America. The Confederate States of America, which that flag represents, was formed in February 1861 and the only thing that country accomplished was getting itself annihilated.
That seems to be what some southerners are proudest of though, that war. It being the only accomplishment. Hell, when Atlanta got an NHL team they called them the Flames, commemorating Sherman burning the city. A bit like naming a Japanese baseball team the Hiroshima Mushroom Cloud, innit?

 

[Corbell]

True

Not true. Not for a century past the Civil War.

In a segregated military.

Yes, it was true.

You are looking back and projecting your modern racial sensibilities on a time that did not share them.


The civil war was over and the wounds were healed. That does not mean that the north and the south were the same, but they were not conquer and conquered, hating each other, they were both America.

 

[Corbell]

Oh, I don't hate the south. I just shake my head at the stupidity of the CSA.
All that stuff you admire about the south, creating a vibrant culture, turning wilderness into thriving farms, that stuff was done by Americans. Citizens of the United States of America. The Confederate States of America, which that flag represents, was formed in February 1861 and the only thing that country accomplished was getting itself annihilated.
That seems to be what some southerners are proudest of though, that war. It being the only accomplishment. Hell, when Atlanta got an NHL team they called them the Flames, commemorating Sherman burning the city. A bit like naming a Japanese baseball team the Hiroshima Mushroom Cloud, innit?

I don't get that. I have never gotten that.

Where are you getting that? Oh, from your own negative views of the people involved.

So... it's made up.

 

[watsup]

Again, with the blacks, like they are all that matters.

Do they matter at all to you? Why are you so easily dismissing their opinion that the Confederate flag is a symbol of the slavery, the lynchings, and the brutal segregation that they endured for a century after the Civil War. Again, why are you so dismissive of their opinions? They are fellow citizens, after all.

 

[Nickyjo]

Oh, I don't hate the south. I just shake my head at the stupidity of the CSA.
All that stuff you admire about the south, creating a vibrant culture, turning wilderness into thriving farms, that stuff was done by Americans. Citizens of the United States of America. The Confederate States of America, which that flag represents, was formed in February 1861 and the only thing that country accomplished was getting itself annihilated.
That seems to be what some southerners are proudest of though, that war. It being the only accomplishment. Hell, when Atlanta got an NHL team they called them the Flames, commemorating Sherman burning the city. A bit like naming a Japanese baseball team the Hiroshima Mushroom Cloud, innit?

Your post reminded me of how language changes from acceptable to not quite. Years ago when I was a kid, I read about a minor league baseball team called the Atlanta Crackers. Some time later, based on this, I referred to a female colleague from the South as a “cracker.” She was not amused. And in the 1960s I remember my mom saying, “be careful Nicky, colored peopke don’t like it when you call them black.”

Btw, search under “Don Pauly” and SNL for a great send up of political correctness.

 

[watsup]

What an odd thing to say.

Why should the "black people" mean more then their own desire to celebrate their history and heritage?

Why should Southern white people mean more than their own desire to celebrate their history and heritage? Why are you so dismissive of our fellow black citizens?

 

[Grand Mal]

I don't get that. I have never gotten that.

What?

Where are you getting that? Oh, from your own negative views of the people involved.

So... it's made up.

 

[watsup]

that black people are morally superior to white people and thus white people must at all times defer to what black people want.

Wow, Cornell suddenly becomes the King of the Strawmen! What a truly strange and ludicrous claim, but it does expose your “thinking” to us way more than you realize, and I guarantee you that is not a compliment. I suppose that you don’t realize what a ridiculous claim that is, and that again is not a compliment.

 

[Corbell]

Do they matter at all to you?

Does the nation as a whole matter to you? Answer from your behavhior and indeed, your refusal to even discuss them, the answer is NO.

Why are you so easily dismissing their opinion that the Confederate flag is a symbol of the slavery, the lynchings, and the brutal segregation that they endured for a century after the Civil War.

Becasue I was raised and taught in a culture that the issue had been moot for generations and the flag was accepted as a harmless symbol of regional pride.

When people like you try to tell me that the flag always stood for the shit you claim it always stood for, I know from my own life experiences tha tyou are talking shit.

So, I easliy dismiss your shit talk.

Oh and you saying "black people" doesn't change that. I don't share your beleif that they are morally superior to me or really anyone.

Again, why are you so dismissive of their opinions? They are fellow citizens, after all.

They are not AMERICA. They do not define AMERICA. Your refusal to even be honest about why you think that they do, is your being dishonest on this issue.

That is why you are constantly talking in circles and making so little sense. Because you are afraid to be clear in your thinking, because on some level you realize that your thinking is absurd.

 

[VySky]

The greatest number of people still thinking the Confederate battle is a symbol of oppression are white liberals trying to find a purpose to their lives, a reason for their self-rightgeousness outrage over something that happened more than 150 years ago. Give it up libs, that flag has long ago become a symbol of regional pride, not a military symbol of insurrection.

View attachment 67548357

Long gone but not forgotten.