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Abortion Warnings?

Stinger

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" A study published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry has found that women who have abortions are more likely to suffer psychological problems than those who don't."

"Those having an abortion had elevated rates of subsequent mental health problems including depression, anxiety, suicidal behaviors and substance use disorders," reports David Fergusson, a scientist at New Zealand's Christchurch School of Medicine & Health Science."

The study tracked 1,265 girls. Of the 14 perecent who sought abortions 4 in 10 later suffered from major depression, 35 percent higher than those who continued their pregnancies.

" The risk of anxiety disorders rose in a similar fashion, the study found. Women who had abortions, for instance, were twice as likely to drink alcohol at dangerous levels compared to those who did not."

"The New Zealand study echoed a 2003 report by the Elliot Institute, a nonprofit, pro-life corporation focused on post-abortion research and education. That study found that women who have abortions are 65 percent more likely to experience clinical depression than those who carry their pregnancies to term."






Should doctors be required to inform women of this before they perform an abortion? Any other medical procedure would require such a warning. If not for abortion why not?
 

Simon W. Moon

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[mod note]added an n to the title[/mod note]
 

talloulou

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Stinger said:
" A study published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry has found that women who have abortions are more likely to suffer psychological problems than those who don't."

"Those having an abortion had elevated rates of subsequent mental health problems including depression, anxiety, suicidal behaviors and substance use disorders," reports David Fergusson, a scientist at New Zealand's Christchurch School of Medicine & Health Science."

The study tracked 1,265 girls. Of the 14 perecent who sought abortions 4 in 10 later suffered from major depression, 35 percent higher than those who continued their pregnancies.

" The risk of anxiety disorders rose in a similar fashion, the study found. Women who had abortions, for instance, were twice as likely to drink alcohol at dangerous levels compared to those who did not."

"The New Zealand study echoed a 2003 report by the Elliot Institute, a nonprofit, pro-life corporation focused on post-abortion research and education. That study found that women who have abortions are 65 percent more likely to experience clinical depression than those who carry their pregnancies to term."
That's one of those studies though where it begs the question which came first the chicken or the egg?

Perhaps it's more likely that you would end up pregnant and needing an abortion if you had more mental problems/depression in the first place. If you are extremely level headed and in to taking care of yourself you're probably gonna be more careful about not getting pregnant in the first place.

Or maybe those who would have an abortion(which I consider to be an irresponsible reckless decision in itself) are just more reckless and irresponsible in general. You know what I mean? The abortion didn't cause them to be that way ......they had the abortion cause they are that way.
 
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jfuh

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Stinger said:
" A study published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry has found that women who have abortions are more likely to suffer psychological problems than those who don't."

"Those having an abortion had elevated rates of subsequent mental health problems including depression, anxiety, suicidal behaviors and substance use disorders," reports David Fergusson, a scientist at New Zealand's Christchurch School of Medicine & Health Science."

The study tracked 1,265 girls. Of the 14 perecent who sought abortions 4 in 10 later suffered from major depression, 35 percent higher than those who continued their pregnancies.

" The risk of anxiety disorders rose in a similar fashion, the study found. Women who had abortions, for instance, were twice as likely to drink alcohol at dangerous levels compared to those who did not."

"The New Zealand study echoed a 2003 report by the Elliot Institute, a nonprofit, pro-life corporation focused on post-abortion research and education. That study found that women who have abortions are 65 percent more likely to experience clinical depression than those who carry their pregnancies to term."






Should doctors be required to inform women of this before they perform an abortion? Any other medical procedure would require such a warning. If not for abortion why not?
Fallacy of: Begging the question.
 

Stinger

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talloulou said:
That's one of those studies though where it begs the question which came first the chicken or the egg?
No it doesn't, it quite clear says what it says and it's not what you want it to say.

Should doctors be required to warn women of the consequences of having an abortion or not?
 

Stinger

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jfuh said:
Fallacy of: Begging the question.
Nope but a classic example of dodging the question. I have cited two published medical studies. Try again. If this were the case in any other medical proceedure including drug theropy doctors would be require BY LAW, to advise the patient. Should they be required to advise women when the medical procedure is an abortion and if not why not.
 

tecoyah

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This is one of those...Duh....studies. Anytime someone goes thru a medical proceedure...there will be psycological effects, hell some people get mental just Thinking of stress.

"Pittsburgh Cancer Institute, PA 15213.

Between 1984 and 1989, 129 Stage 1 and Stage 2 breast cancer patients were entered into a behavioral study in Pittsburgh. Approximately 70% of these patients had elected to have breast conservation (lumpectomy) surgery, with the remainder choosing mastectomy. Using the Profile of Mood States, a measure of perceived social support, and Karnofsky ratings of physical functional status, patients were assessed 3 to 5 days following surgery and again 3 and 15 months following surgery. The data were analyzed using a repeated-measures analysis of covariance, adjusting for aggressiveness of chemotherapy. Compared to mastectomy patients, patients who received breast conservation surgery were rated as more functional by observers, but they perceived themselves as having less energy and less emotional support, especially over the first 3 months of the recovery period. Because there is accumulating evidence that emotional support may act as a stress buffer in various populations and may have survival value, these findings may be particularly troublesome. This study shows that breast conservation surgery is not a psychosocial panacea. Patients whose breasts are spared, especially younger patients, have psychological symptoms that appear acutely worse in the short run and, in the end, are similar to those of patients who elect to have mastectomies. Therefore, patients choosing lumpectomies are not necessarily psychosocially better off than those electing to have mastectomies. Additionally, these patients, particularly younger patients, may require greater social support and potential mental health interventions than they seem to be receiving."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1286653&dopt=Abstract

Stigma creates much of the stress....in my opinion.
 

Stinger

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tecoyah said:
This is one of those...Duh....studies. Anytime someone goes thru a medical proceedure...there will be psycological effects, hell some people get mental just Thinking of stress.
No It's not a DUH, there are many many medical proceedures which do not have this concern, MOST medical procedures I would imagine. But again the question is dodged, should doctors be required to tell patients before hand that there is a very very real possibility that they will suffer from severe depression if they go through the proceedure?
 

talloulou

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Stinger said:
No it doesn't, it quite clear says what it says and it's not what you want it to say.

Should doctors be required to warn women of the consequences of having an abortion or not?
Well, I want it to show a clear cause and effect relationship as that would make a better case for why women shouldn't have abortions since I'm prolife. I do not think this study is clear in showing a cause and effect relationship. However, either way, drs. could tell women look studies show :

"Those having an abortion had elevated rates of subsequent mental health problems including depression, anxiety, suicidal behaviors and substance use disorders," reports David Fergusson, a scientist at New Zealand's Christchurch School of Medicine & Health Science."

and we don't know if the abortion caused this or if these are just the kinds of people who tend to abort their babies..... Either way it's best not to end up in this group so best not to be a fetus killer.
 

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First off, there was no reason for that last statement-it was inflammatory and meant to stir ire-juvenile. Just stick to the topic, K?

Of the four women I know that have had abortions, not one needed psychiatric help nor are they suffering from mental disorders. All went on to raise families. However, I DO know some who should seek it out that never had abortions, some who are moms, some not.
This study, as shown here, does not state particulars, ie: were the girls forced by guardians to undergo the procedures? Were the pregnancies results of consensual sex and if so, through what ages of these girls? What were the common backgrounds, if any? Were there histories of mental illness?

In some things I can be gullible, in this case, I am quite the cynic.
 

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Stinger said:
Nope but a classic example of dodging the question. I have cited two published medical studies. Try again. If this were the case in any other medical proceedure including drug theropy doctors would be require BY LAW, to advise the patient. Should they be required to advise women when the medical procedure is an abortion and if not why not.
Only more of those religiously based decision to ban abortion through intentional traumatization of women. only instead of standing outside yelling, cursing, chanting, they want the propaganda inside the clinic.
 

Stinger

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talloulou said:
Well, I want it to show a clear cause and effect relationship ....
They do as much as any other such study (I cited two seperate studies), I note again your no response to the core question and I have no further interest in your attempts to dismiss the studies.
 

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jfuh said:
Only more of those religiously ...........
Has nothing to do with religion these are medical studies, I note your non-response to the question. If you refuse to answer or even address it I have no further interest in your response.
 

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ngdawg said:
First off, there was no reason for that last statement-it was inflammatory and meant to stir ire-juvenile. Just stick to the topic, K?

My last statement of the post : Should doctors be required to inform women of this before they perform an abortion? Any other medical procedure would require such a warning. If not for abortion why not?

There is nothing inflammatory at all, they are both salient questions, if you don't want to address them so be it but I have no interest in your spurious comments.
Of the four women I know that have had abortions,
You anecdotal stories carry no weight, I have cited reviewed and published medial studies, try again to address their findings and answer the questions posed.
 

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Fine...I will rephrase my response. Yes, a doctor has an obligation to explain the plus and minus factor in any proceedure, before it is considered. This is the ....Duh....factor which I was refering to, and should be obvious, though it obviously is not to you. Thus we come to the intent of your post, and the aformentioned inflamatory aspect of this attempt at debate. I would think it unusual were a woman NOT to feel some level of depression/stress/trepidation, before and after undergoing elective surgery.....wouldnt you?
 

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Stinger said:
My last statement of the post : Should doctors be required to inform women of this before they perform an abortion? Any other medical procedure would require such a warning. If not for abortion why not?solely to you.

There is nothing inflammatory at all, they are both salient questions, if you don't want to address them so be it but I have no interest in your spurious comments.
Did I say your name or did my post follow someone else's? This is not a thread about YOU and I was not directing my statement to you at all.

Stinger said:
You anecdotal stories carry no weight, I have cited reviewed and published medial studies, try again to address their findings and answer the questions posed.
They do carry weight as 100% of the women I know did not have the issues presented in your opening post. I also answered in that the 'study' does not address the particulars of the subjects. You really need to pay more attention if you intend to start a true debate, although that does not seem to be your intent, judging by both your choice of phrasing and responding to those of us who took the time to answer.
When a woman makes a decision to have ANY procedure done the onus is on her to acquire as much information as she can without prejudice or preconceived judgement. Every doctor worth their weight will provide information about what it is they are going to do and the risks involved. THERE'S the answer you requested.
 

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tecoyah said:
Fine...I will rephrase my response. Yes, a doctor has an obligation to explain the plus and minus factor in any proceedure, before it is considered. This is the ....Duh....factor which I was refering to, and should be obvious, though it obviously is not to you.
No it was not obvious so should it be a legal requirement as with other asspect of medicine that require such disclousers?

Thus we com e to the intent of your post,
There was no other intent to my post other than asking the question that I did so why the attempt to paint it otherwise?

I would think it unusual were a woman NOT to feel some level of depression/stress/trepidation, before and after undergoing elective surgery.....wouldnt you?
No, not simply because it was an "elective surgery", many women come out of elective surgeries feeling quite elated over the results. This has to do with the fact that it is an abortion.
 

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ngdawg said:
Did I say your name or did my post follow someone else's? This is not a thread about YOU and I was not directing my statement to you at all.
Your reply was directly threaded to mine so YES it appears you are replying to ME.

They do carry weight as 100% of the women I know
No they do not, when you do you observation in a scientific manner and have it peer reviewed and published in a medical journal let me know.

You really need to pay more attention if you intend to start a true debate, although that does not seem to be your intent, judging by both your choice of phrasing and responding to those of us who took the time to answer.
I have offer you two peer reviewed medical studies, if that is not enough to start a "true" debate with you then I don't know what would be. If it is simply that the results do not match your desires then it is YOU who do not offer a true debate of the facts.

When a woman makes a decision to have ANY procedure done the onus is on her to acquire as much information as she can without prejudice or preconceived judgement. Every doctor worth their weight will provide information about what it is they are going to do and the risks involved. THERE'S the answer you requested.
No it isn't I asked should they be REQUIRED to. Should the law require them to do so as in other medical proceedures.
 

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Stinger said:
Your reply was directly threaded to mine so YES it appears you are replying to ME.



No they do not, when you do you observation in a scientific manner and have it peer reviewed and published in a medical journal let me know.



I have offer you two peer reviewed medical studies, if that is not enough to start a "true" debate with you then I don't know what would be. If it is simply that the results do not match your desires then it is YOU who do not offer a true debate of the facts.



No it isn't I asked should they be REQUIRED to. Should the law require them to do so as in other medical proceedures.
I don't know where YOU live but here it IS required to give out all current information as to the risks of any invasive procedure.

As for you thinking I was responding to you in the first place, we ARE allowed to respond to others and not just the thread starter...are you new here or something???:roll:
 

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Stinger said:
They do as much as any other such study (I cited two seperate studies), I note again your no response to the core question and I have no further interest in your attempts to dismiss the studies.

But I did answer it....

"However, either way, drs. could tell women look studies show :

"Those having an abortion had elevated rates of subsequent mental health problems including depression, anxiety, suicidal behaviors and substance use disorders," reports David Fergusson, a scientist at New Zealand's Christchurch School of Medicine & Health Science."

and we don't know if the abortion caused this or if these are just the kinds of people who tend to abort their babies..... Either way it's best not to end up in this group so best not to be a baby killer."
 

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Stinger said:
There is nothing inflammatory at all, they are both salient questions, if you don't want to address them so be it but I have no interest in your spurious comments.
He considered my answer inflammatory:rofl
 

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talloulou said:
But I did answer it....

"However, either way, drs. could tell women look studies show :
I didn't ask "could" I asked should, by law, as with other medical proceedures.
 

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ngdawg said:
I don't know where YOU live but here it IS required to give out all current information as to the risks of any invasive procedure.
Not with abortion.

As for you thinking I was responding to you in the first place, we ARE allowed to respond to others and not just the thread starter...are you new here or something???:roll:
You hit the respond button while having my message as your target, look at the message tree, which indicates you were responding to me. If you are responding to someone else then have their message as your focus when you hit the respond button else make sure you state in your message who you are responding to.
 

ngdawg

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Stinger said:
Not with abortion.



You hit the respond button while having my message as your target, look at the message tree, which indicates you were responding to me. If you are responding to someone else then have their message as your focus when you hit the respond button else make sure you state in your message who you are responding to.
Stop whatever medication you're on...my post #10 follows post #9...logic would tell MOST people it is in direct response to the previous post:roll:

Here's my final response....you're a lousy thread starter and have no talent as a moderator. Don't give up the day job.:2wave:
 

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Stinger said:
Has nothing to do with religion these are medical studies, I note your non-response to the question. If you refuse to answer or even address it I have no further interest in your response.
No response? Quite a lie there bud.
As for this having nothing to do with religion, don't kid yourself.
 
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