"ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council [W:231]

[Dezaad]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

This kind of reasoning is what truly shows why pro-choice is such a stupid idea that has gained so much popularity and following simply because a lot of people don't think.

If there is anyone that ought to be declared sub-humans - it would have to be the pro-choice advocates. That would only be logical.

The few abortion debates that I've participated with in this section are indeed eye-openers.
Based on some of the extreme arguments/reasonings being spouted off by some on this thread, I see people.... and some monsters.

What you mean when you say "people don't think" is that people don't respond the way you want when you trot out Hitler with a Pro-Choice mask on his face.

How dare YOU make the implications you are making. You attempt to back people into corners with your double fallacies of begging the question and appeals to emotion, and when they don't cower before your manipulative tactics, you try another route and start calling them monsters.

But, the fact is, all you have left is your hollow moral outrage, nothing of substance really, but you nevertheless think it looks good. I suppose it does, to the gullible.

 

[sangha]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

Which I've acknowledged that the title of their article was worded wrongly.

As for Angelina Jolie, can you prove that they lied about what she said?

Surely, you're not basing your accusation solely to this article statement:

During the debate, UN Special Envoy Angelina Jolie spoke forcefully on the deadly effects of war rape: “Let us be clear what we are speaking of: Young girls raped and impregnated before their bodies are able to carry a child.”
- See more at: UN Security Council Addresses Sexual & Reproductive Rights for Girls & Women Raped in War | The Global Justice Center Blog


Cite your reference to her complete statement....

That is untrue. The article was more than "wrongly worded". It flat out lied about the significance of the UN's action.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

An embryo/fetus is only technically innocent as legally insane criminals are, because it is not innocent in the sense of harmless. And the claim that it is defenseless is laughable - it makes a hormonal addict of a woman, kills some of her immune cells, and makes a placenta which it directs to participate in these activities, cloak it to prevent the woman's immune system from detecting it, and suppress some cells in her immune system, disabling that system, all to prevent its rejection by her immune system. If that's not defense, what is it?

It's called reproduction, a natural part of Human Biology that the woman and man initiated by having sex.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

The exception does not prove the rule. It proves that the people making the rule don't even believe in their own rule.

Not what I said at all. I believe that in all cases abortion is wrong.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

It's called reproduction, a natural part of Human Biology that the woman and man initiated by having sex.

It's doesn't even matter if it's natural

Even a tapeworm in the digestive tract does not behave that badly and we have no problem killing it because of that reason.

So it shouldn't be surprised if we kill something else acting much more worse then a tapeworm.

 

[Dezaad]

So you considered insects humans? But you de-humanized them. Here is....

EXHIBIT A.

See folks what I mean? This an example of the minds that follows behind and promotes pro-choice. :mrgreen:

You would like for me to have made the logical error you claiming am making, here, wouldn't you? Indeed, trying to twist my words into something I didn't say is your feeble attempt to construct an opponent out of straw.

But, let me try to circumvent such dishonesty with clarity: There are stages of a pregnancy where the organism in development has not yet attained the qualities of a Being. At such stages, the organism is not worth even considering against the concerns of the woman who has the choice to continue the pregnancy or not.

This is the common sense view. The creature's personhood is in an exceedingly primitive state of development, just as its body is. Pop-theologians attempt to get around this obvious situation by injecting the religious notion of a soul into the matter, and somehow they magically know that the soul gets magically injected into the organism right at conception. And then they expect a Woman to give up her very powerful choice, on the basis of such fanciful and arbitrary notions.

Women should keep the choice and reject the fantasy.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

It's doesn't even matter if it's natural

Even a tapeworm in the digestive tract does not behave that badly and we have no problem killing it because of that reason.

So it shouldn't be surprised if we kill something else acting much more worse then a tapeworm.

Comparing a tapeworm to a human life is disgusting and ridiculous.

 

[sangha]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

Comparing a tapeworm to a human life is disgusting and ridiculous.

Degrading to the innocent and defenseless tapeworms who, like your savior, are without sin.

Your constant denigration of God's Gifts to the world are despicable and immoral.

 

[Dezaad]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

Comparing a tapeworm to a human life is disgusting and ridiculous.

And accurate, in this case. You just want people to believe it is ridiculous on the basis of nothing whatsoever.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

And accurate, in this case. You just want people to believe it is ridiculous on the basis of nothing whatsoever.

Not true. Humans are not the same as any other organism and there is sanctity in that life.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

Comparing a tapeworm to a human life is disgusting and ridiculous.

Comparing the actions of an entity that we killed because of those actions and comparing the actions of other entity that does actions much more worse then the tapeworm and killing that entity because of the actions is not disgusting in anyway.

 

[Dezaad]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

Not true. Humans are not the same as any other organism and there is sanctity in that life.

You have no basis to claim there is sanctity in all human life.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

Degrading to the innocent and defenseless tapeworms who, like your savior, are without sin.

Your constant denigration of God's Gifts to the world are despicable and immoral.

Yeah I know right

The tapeworms were innocent and defenseless and didn't know what they were doing yet we kill them because of the actions they perform inside our bodies so the same can be easily said of another entity doing actions much more worse then a tapeworm which in this case are the unborn.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

You have no basis to claim there is sanctity in all human life.

In your opinion. I have given the basis time and time again, you just can't accept the truth becuase it would inconvenience women's "rights."

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

In your opinion. I have given the basis time and time again, you just can't accept the truth becuase it would inconvenience women's "rights."

The ''sanctity of human life'' view is only an opinion not the truth

With abortion being legal in most of the world and soon euthanasia shows that the ''sanctity of human life'' view is not a very popular view at all

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

The ''sanctity of human life'' view is only an opinion not the truth

With abortion being legal in most of the world and soon euthanasia shows that the ''sanctity of human life'' view is not a very popular view at all

Popularity =/= Truth

 

[Dezaad]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

In your opinion. I have given the basis time and time again, you just can't accept the truth becuase it would inconvenience women's "rights."

And it has been demonstrated to you that your basis is so flimsy as to be as nothing at all, and entirely narrowly religious in nature. It is you that can't accept that, and just let other people live their lives with common sense instead of fantasy.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

And it has been demonstrated to you that your basis is so flimsy as to be as nothing at all, and entirely narrowly religious in nature. It is you that can't accept that, and just let other people live their lives with common sense instead of fantasy.

It's not fantasy.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

Popularity =/= Truth

Popularity shows that the ''sanctity of human life'' view is not held in high regard and is only a concept not a truth

 

[Dezaad]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

It's not fantasy.

When you can objectively prove that, your basis will take on life and substance. Until then, it doesn't deserve any consideration at all.

 

[Serenity]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

Comparing a tapeworm to a human life is disgusting.

Would you say that to one of your sisters, friends or loved ones who had suffered a miscarriage and were upset about it? Eh, quit with the dramatics and get over it, it's only a tapeworm.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

1. Comparing a tapeworm to a human life is disgusting.

2. Would you say that to one of your sisters, friends or loved ones who had suffered a miscarriage and were upset about it? Eh, quit with the dramatics and get over it, it's only a tapeworm.

1. Comparing the actions of an entity that we killed because of those actions and comparing the actions of other entity that does actions much more worse then the tapeworm and killing that entity because of the actions is not disgusting in anyway.

2. Most of my adoptive family don't put emotional investment into their pregnancies because of the possibilities of a miscarriage happening in the first place. I would say you lost the human that was acting much more worse then a tapeworm

 

[Dezaad]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

Comparing a tapeworm to a human life is disgusting.

Would you say that to one of your sisters, friends or loved ones who had suffered a miscarriage and were upset about it? Eh, quit with the dramatics and get over it, it's only a tapeworm.

And yet people of normal mental health don't hold a funeral either.

I would say "it was only equivalent to a tapeworm" if that were the relevant matter at hand, but it isn't. Her disappointment is real, and warranted if she wanted to bring a child into the world. But to feed her sadness by pretending it was anything like a fully fledged human being would be putting on the dramatics, I would have to say.

 

[Dezaad]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

Comparing a tapeworm to a human life is disgusting.

Would you say that to one of your sisters, friends or loved ones who had suffered a miscarriage and were upset about it? Eh, quit with the dramatics and get over it, it's only a tapeworm.

I wanted to add more to my response, but I will add it in this second one instead:

1. A very large part of grieving is the sense of loss of a future that is not now going to occur. A person grieves for things imagined as a future.
2. Another large part of grieving is the sense of loss that occurs because you will miss interacting with another creature, whether that creature is a goldfish, a cat, a dog or a person. Hopefully you miss interaction with those creatures in intensity in ascending order.
3. Another part of grieving is only possible to do in regard to a person: A person grieves for another because that other person lost the life they had built, and you are sad because it is all over now. You are sad for their sake, not your own loss.

The emotional appeal you are making is quite blunted when you consider where the grieving that the woman is experiencing falls among these components of grief.

 

[minnie616]

Re: "ABORTION NOT A HUMAN RIGHT EVEN IN CASES OF RAPE" - UN Security Council

Miscarriages are disappointing especially when one is hoping for a healthy baby.
15 to 20 percent of all known pregnancies end in miscarriage.

It is especially hard when friends and relatives and the woman herself keep referring to pregnancy as the baby , the child etc instead of the expectant baby because it is so easy then to think of it as a fully formed baby instead of as " baby " under construction.

I had two miscarriages myself.
My first one was an early miscarriage which was sad but not not devastating because I knew miscarriages can and do happen.I was 20 weeks gestation when my second miscarriage and that was harder especially since our 7 year old and 9 year were excited to have a little brother or sister.

That is what makes miscarriages so hard for so many because we forget we should not think of the unborn as a born baby. It is not
Fully developed when it is in utero , it is still under construction.

Farmers don't count their chickens before they hatch for good reason...some just don't hatch.