• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

Abolish Traffic Enforcement Cameras

  • Abolish other types of cameras only (specify)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    79

ronpaulvoter

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
627
Reaction score
111
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Are you aware that traffic enforcement cameras are designed primarily to steal people's money rather than enhance safety?

Did you know that the yellow on many intersections on major highways is set at the minimum legal limit of three seconds--inadequate most of the time?

Did you know that cameras cause more accidents than they prevent?

Would you like to abolish any of these?

Do you have many cameras in your neighborhood?

Have you received any (or many) tickets from cameras?
 
Last edited:

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
111,059
Reaction score
56,962
Location
Bradenton Fla
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Are you aware that traffic enforcement cameras are designed primarily to steal people's money rather than enhance safety?

Did you know that the yellow on many intersections on major highways is set at the minimum legal limit of three seconds--inadequate most of the time?

Did you know that cameras cause more accidents than they prevent?

Would you like to abolish any of these?

Do you have many cameras in your neighborhood?

Have you received any (or many) tickets from cameras?

Do you know that made up statistics and undocumented claims are worthless?
 

year2late

IIJAFM
DP Veteran
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
24,101
Reaction score
21,550
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Are you aware that traffic enforcement cameras are designed primarily to steal people's money rather than enhance safety?

Did you know that the yellow on many intersections on major highways is set at the minimum legal limit of three seconds--inadequate most of the time?

Did you know that cameras cause more accidents than they prevent?

Would you like to abolish any of these?

Do you have many cameras in your neighborhood?

Have you received any (or many) tickets from cameras?

I will say that there are many intersections I feel MUCH safer at now.

Do I have any doubt that they are revenue producers? Nope.

I got one ticket a few years back. Cost me a chunk of change (wasn't worth my time to fight). Guess what. I am a lot more careful now. (I did not fully stop when turning on a red).

It is simple. Stop as you are required and if there are extenuating circumstances, the video will help you in court and it can be dismissed.

One ticket. None since, because I have become more alert and careful.

I would fight for the cameras to be set properly, but removal....naw.
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Easy way to avoid tickets given because of traffic cameras. Don't break the law.
 

Hatuey

Rule of Two
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
58,569
Reaction score
25,877
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Easy way to avoid tickets given because of traffic cameras. Don't break the law.

Way too complicated. We must abolish the law and do away with cameras.
 

aberrant85

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
594
Reaction score
209
Location
SF Bay Area
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
How about keep the cameras, but only for use as evidence when a car has been pulled over by a human police officer. None of this get your ticket in the mail business.
 

kerussll

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
1,589
Reaction score
730
Location
Colorado
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Are you aware that traffic enforcement cameras are designed primarily to steal people's money rather than enhance safety?

Did you know that the yellow on many intersections on major highways is set at the minimum legal limit of three seconds--inadequate most of the time?

Did you know that cameras cause more accidents than they prevent?

Would you like to abolish any of these?

Do you have many cameras in your neighborhood?

Have you received any (or many) tickets from cameras?

How do they cause more accidents than they prevent?
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Way too complicated. We must abolish the law and do away with cameras.

Wait... you mean "down with personal responsibility"? :2razz:
 

Hatuey

Rule of Two
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
58,569
Reaction score
25,877
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Wait... you mean "down with personal responsibility"? :2razz:

I do indeed. I am not responsible for ensuring I don't break the law. The law is responsible for ensuring I don't break the law. Wait.... I'm mixed up like a Trekkie at a Star Wars convention.
 

year2late

IIJAFM
DP Veteran
Joined
May 12, 2013
Messages
24,101
Reaction score
21,550
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
How about keep the cameras, but only for use as evidence when a car has been pulled over by a human police officer. None of this get your ticket in the mail business.

So 99.99 of red light runners get off? There are not enough officers to enforce or even make a dent.

I have no issue with police being used to fight crime rather than enforcing traffic law violators.

When I got mine, I saw the video and saw I was guilty. Paid the fine and became more aware of my surroundings and driving habits.

A coworker of mine went to court to try to get off....the video was reviewed and the judge brought her up to the desk with the video and said "you are coming to me when you know I can watch the video and you are on the cell phone while running the red light?" She paid her fine and left.:doh:lamo
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I do indeed. I am not responsible for ensuring I don't break the law. The law is responsible for ensuring I don't break the law. Wait.... I'm mixed up like a Trekkie at a Star Wars convention.

Live long and may the force be with you.
 

Starbuck

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
881
Reaction score
255
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I voted that all cameras should be abolished on the premise that I believe their value is outweighed by their cost. In areas where the community strictly monitors the results of an intersection camera and only issues citations when actually warranted I am marginally ok with the presence of the cameras.

However, I believe there is a big slippery slope involved with placing unmanned traffic enforcement at intersections and I don't think the benefit of safer intersections is worth the risk of increased & unnecessary enforcement.
 

Starbuck

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
881
Reaction score
255
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
How do they cause more accidents than they prevent?

People getting scared when they see the flashing light?

People slamming on their brakes to avoid running through the light?
 

APACHERAT

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
15,633
Reaction score
6,159
Location
Behind the Orange Curtain
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Most traffic enforcement cameras are operated by private companies who get a percentage of the fines paid. These companies are big political donors to politicians, especially Democrats.

The standard rule of thumb ( did I just used a politically incorrect phrase, "rule of thumb" that the Obama administration has labeled to be a sexist term ? I guess I did.)
But I digress.
The rule of thumb is when a traffic signal changes from green to yellow before turning red, the yellow signal is suppose to be set for being illuminated one second for every 10 mph for what ever the maxim speed limit is.

30 mph = 3 seconds.
35 mph = 3.5 seconds.
45 mph = 4.5 seconds.

Here in California it was discovered that the Democrat controlled municipal governments in collusion with the companies that provided and operated the cameras changed the duration of the yellow signals usually from .5 to 1 second. The cameras will take a picture of any vehicle which has entered or passed the line with in 1/1000th of a second when the signal turned red.

For stupid people. if you enter an intersection when the light is green or yellow and it turns red while your in the center or 3/4's of the intersection the camera takes your picture and you receive a $450 plus ticket in the mail.

Many municipalities in So Cal discovered that any intersection that had these cameras saw a huge increase in accidents, mostly rear end accidents. Most drivers are aware of the cameras and as soon as they see the traffic signal turn yellow, they are in fear of running a yellow light and hit their breaks. BAM !

But it goes further.
The SEIU and the other public service employees unions love these cameras. They cause millions of dollars to flow into the municipal tax coffers so they can demand higher wages for government workers.
You see them every day, the two city workers filling a pot hole while four other city workers supervise.
 

kerussll

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
1,589
Reaction score
730
Location
Colorado
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
People getting scared when they see the flashing light?

People slamming on their brakes to avoid running through the light?

I could see that. Is there evidence to support it or is this just a theory?
 

Starbuck

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
881
Reaction score
255
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I could see that. Is there evidence to support it or is this just a theory?

I suppose there could but, but for tonight it's just a theory based upon my experience.

One of the roads near my house has cameras at every intersection and I've definitely see both behaviors.
 

Bob Blaylock

Electrician
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
13,745
Reaction score
8,546
Location
North 38°28′ West 121°26′
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Easy way to avoid tickets given because of traffic cameras. Don't break the law.

There's an established precedent of corrupt local governments manipulating the traffic control devices, in order to trick motorists into breaking the law who otherwise would not. Best-known and most obvious is the practice of shortening the yellow-light duration at intersections where red-light cameras are installed.
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
There's an established precedent of corrupt local governments manipulating the traffic control devices, in order to trick motorists into breaking the law who otherwise would not. Best-known and most obvious is the practice of shortening the yellow-light duration at intersections where red-light cameras are installed.

So, I suppose that means that the standard, "red means stop, green means go, yellow means go very fast" mindset would need to change. If you go through a red light, you get a ticket. A good rule of thumb with this issue would be to slow down when you see a yellow, not speed up.
 

Starbuck

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
881
Reaction score
255
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
So, I suppose that means that the standard, "red means stop, green means go, yellow means go very fast" mindset would need to change. If you go through a red light, you get a ticket. A good rule of thumb with this issue would be to slow down when you see a yellow, not speed up.

Thing is though, if it is actually a safety hazard to have people running (or even barely missing the light), simply parking an empty cruiser by the intersection would do way more for safety, and no one needs to get a ticket.
 

FreedomFromAll

Political Parties = Corruption
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
18,999
Reaction score
5,932
Location
New Mexico USA
Gender
Male
If we want to use common sense and logic, then any intersection or section of road that qualifies for cameras should instead have the signage and whatever else would curb such behavior done. Slapping a camera up hoping that people getting tickets will change their behavior is a fools errand.

Better to build and mark the roadways properly rather than expect a camera to fix it. If a intersection is a problem access why it is a problem. If people regularly speed in a area put rumble strips on the road surface.
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Thing is though, if it is actually a safety hazard to have people running (or even barely missing the light), simply parking an empty cruiser by the intersection would do way more for safety, and no one needs to get a ticket.

It would accomplish the same thing. People see the camera and slow down... people see the cruiser and slow down.
 

Starbuck

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
881
Reaction score
255
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Honestly, I'm almost in favor of getting rid of controlled intersections all together.

In Malta nearly every intersection is a simple rotary, no lights or stop sights. Traffic flows much better and there isn't any need to have a ticket camera.

Naturally they installed speeding ticket cameras on their equivalent of freeways though.
 

Starbuck

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
881
Reaction score
255
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
It would accomplish the same thing. People see the camera and slow down... people see the cruiser and slow down.

Difference is that an empty cruiser doesn't hand out tickets and you can sporadically place a live officer in the car to keep things lively.
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Difference is that an empty cruiser doesn't hand out tickets and you can sporadically place a live officer in the car to keep things lively.

Tickets are a pretty decent deterrent. I've gotten my share and I support giving them out when someone breaks the law.
 

CaptainCourtesy

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
156,720
Reaction score
53,497
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Honestly, I'm almost in favor of getting rid of controlled intersections all together.

In Malta nearly every intersection is a simple rotary, no lights or stop sights. Traffic flows much better and there isn't any need to have a ticket camera.

Naturally they installed speeding ticket cameras on their equivalent of freeways though.

Rotaries (called traffic circles in my parts) are HORRIBLE and can cause more accidents because of the issues with merging.
 
Top Bottom