Abolish ICE

[ColdHardTruth]

No. Our country requires immigration law enforcement.

Not like this.

We do not need a gestapo.

 

[Captain Adverse]

No. Our country requires immigration law enforcement.

Short, sweet, and to the point. I approve.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Is your position that we should stop doing all immigration and customs enforcement? Or merely that the agency needs to change its name, shuffle some personnel from Office A to Office B, and rebrand itself?

They have become a secret police. they will never be able to live down what they have become.

I lived under Joe Arpiao's reign in Maricopa county, all of the strategies and practices we see, save for rendering, was done by Joe. Raids, car stops, all of it and then some. He even had a concentration camp for US citizens right downtown, an open air chain-link/razor wire square with tents, green bologna... in the middle of the 110 summers. None of them had been convicted, they were awaiting trial. The Maricopa County Sheriffs office will never regain their status after that.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Why? 50 miles from the border isn't anywhere near the border.

People who enter the country illegally obviously don't hang out at the border.

Are you deliberately saying things that are absurd?

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Of course.

What are you even talking about? They DO cover the entire US. They're a federal agency. Why do you think they only cover border towns?

People who enter the country illegally obviously don't hang out at the border.

Are you deliberately saying things that are absurd?

Because they didn't always have that power. It's a slow and steady process of ICE getting more and more power to enforce more and more.

"Legislation in 1952 codified and carried forward the essential elements of the 1917 and 1924 acts. The same year, Border Patrol agents were first permitted to board and search a conveyance for illegal immigrants anywhere in the United States. For the first time, illegal entrants traveling within the country were subject to arrest."

"The early 1960s also witnessed aircraft-hijacking attempts and President John F. Kennedy ordered Border Patrol agents to accompany domestic flights to prevent takeovers. The Miami Sector of the Border Patrol coordinated the effort. By that time the business of alien smuggling began to involve drug smuggling also. The Border Patrol assisted other agencies in intercepting illegal drugs from Mexico."

"On March 1, 2003, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) was established, and the U.S. Border Patrol became part of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, a component of DHS."

Border Patrol History

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

The story of ICE isn't a story of protecting the border. It's a story of a government agency slowly but steadily over the course of 100 years gaining more and more power and resources. From a small start as just the border patrol, to an agency that can operate anywhere across the country. When we talk about ending ICE we're not talking about ending ICE, we're talking about cutting off a government agency that knows how to increase its power and influence over time.

 

[Manc Skipper]

How long have American law and order agencies hidden their faces behind masks as the work?

 

[Felis Leo]

ICE is not the moral equivalent of the Nazi Gestapo. If you are here illegally and you are arrested by ICE you will be detained and deported. If you were Jewish or another minority and arrested by the Nazi Gestapo, you would either be tortured to death or sent to a death camp along with the rest of your family. If you had an infant child, they would be taken from you and tossed in the back of a flatbed truck where they were dumped into a mass grave and buried alive. Your older children would be taken from you and immediately taken to the gas chambers. If you were capable of work, your best hope would be to be worked to death or slowly starved.

As ****ed up as MAGA is and ICE is under their direction, they are still a long ways from horrors of Nazi Germany. Trump isn’t America’s Hitler, he is America’s Juan Peron.

I am well aware of what the Gestapo did, ALiberalModerate. My familiarity with the organization exceeds the typical American's whose knowledge comes from watching World War 2 movies and the History Channel. I know enough about the subject to know that the Gestapo took years to become the Gestapo whose name lives on in infamy.

It took six years for the Nazi German government and the Gestapo to start an official policy of mass-murder against the Jews of Europe in the territory that they conquered from Poland. Before that, the Gestapo started behaving as ICE is now, I.e., arresting racial undesirables without due process, sticking them in makeshift concentration camp prison facilities without charge, and arresting political opponents of the Nazis. Like DHS and ICE, they were not subject to any judicial review or oversight. And it should be noted that the Gestapo was not even staffed originally by dedicated bloodthirsty National Socialist zealots, but by largely apolitical and competent police officers. The chief of the Gestapo Heinrich Mueller did not even become a Nazi Party member until 1939, and only did so at the pressuring of SS chief Heinrich Himmler.

So I will push back, there is no difference in moral character between the Gestapo as it originated in the first few months of Adolf Hitler's reign, and DHS/ICE today in the first few months of Trump's. The Gestapo was not engaged in systematized mass murder at its outset, nor is ICE engaged in systematized mass murder at this moment. But they are engaged in lawless searches, seizures, arrests, detainments, mistreatment of detainees, and deportations, just as the GEstapo.

And like the Gestapo and the SS did in 1941, when it becomes apparent that it is impossible to detain and deport 12 million people out of the United States, ICE and the DHS will begin killing immigrants if they can get away with it, just as the SS and Gestapo did to the Jews when they realized that it was logistically impossible to detain, house, feed and deport the Jews of Europe. Because the members of ICE are no different from the Gestapo. Just ordinary men and women with spouses, children, hobbies and mortgages, trying to get through the day and earn their paycheck at the end of the month. If the day's work includes starving or shooting men, women and children, so be it.

 

[bomberfox]

ICE is not the moral equivalent of the Nazi Gestapo. If you are here illegally and you are arrested by ICE you will be detained and deported. If you were Jewish or another minority and arrested by the Nazi Gestapo, you would either be tortured to death or sent to a death camp along with the rest of your family. If you had an infant child, they would be taken from you and tossed in the back of a flatbed truck where they were dumped into a mass grave and buried alive. Your older children would be taken from you and immediately taken to the gas chambers. If you were capable of work, your best hope would be to be worked to death or slowly starved.

As ****ed up as MAGA is and ICE is under their direction, they are still a long ways from horrors of Nazi Germany. Trump isn’t America’s Hitler, he is America’s Juan Peron.

They already packed people into such closed spaces in the first Trump admin then drugged up immigrants and mutilated some of their genitals according to the texas tribune. Not that far off.

 

[Felis Leo]

ICE is not the moral equivalent of the Nazi Gestapo. If you are here illegally and you are arrested by ICE you will be detained and deported. If you were Jewish or another minority and arrested by the Nazi Gestapo, you would either be tortured to death or sent to a death camp along with the rest of your family. If you had an infant child, they would be taken from you and tossed in the back of a flatbed truck where they were dumped into a mass grave and buried alive. Your older children would be taken from you and immediately taken to the gas chambers. If you were capable of work, your best hope would be to be worked to death or slowly starved.

As ****ed up as MAGA is and ICE is under their direction, they are still a long ways from horrors of Nazi Germany. Trump isn’t America’s Hitler, he is America’s Juan Peron.

Just thought I would share a video from three months ago. It is not a long one (8 minutes or so if you can spare a moment). Now, I believe our President and his devotees have crossed to the South Bank of the Rubicon. I believe that it happened when they detained innocent people without due process and sent them to an overseas concentration camp without trial and refused to bring them back after the Supreme Court ordered the Administration to do so. If you disagree with my assessment above or the video maker’s below, I would ask to please explain your thinking and what your personal “If ICE does X, if the President does Y, we have crossed the Rubicon into a fascist state and something drastic must occur to stop it”. Thank you.

 

[Parker_Chess]

I support mostly open borders with some checks and policing for human/drug trafficking. That's about it. Immigration is mostly a good thing for the country. So sure I'd let's get rid of ICE.

 

[Bonnot]

Yes, they should not only be abolished but everyone involved with them tried and jailed for the infinite number of humans and civil rights violations they have committed.

Also **** Obama for ever giving Tom Homan's racist ass the job he is currently at now.

 

[Rogue Valley]

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is not the same agency as U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

In theory, CBP is supposed to focus on enforcement at the border, while ICE is supposed to focus on enforcing immigration laws in the interior of the country.

But in practice, both agencies have been guilty of ignoring US statutes and laws and that pertain to illegal migrants, immigration, asylum, due process, and habeas corpus.

 

[j brown's body]

Just thought I would share a video from three months ago. It is not a long one (8 minutes or so if you can spare a moment). Now, I believe our President and his devotees have crossed to the South Bank of the Rubicon. I believe that it happened when they detained innocent people without due process and sent them to an overseas concentration camp without trial and refused to bring them back after the Supreme Court ordered the Administration to do so. If you disagree with my assessment above or the video maker’s below, I would ask to please explain your thinking and what your personal “If ICE does X, if the President does Y, we have crossed the Rubicon into a fascist state and something drastic must occur to stop it”. Thank you.

Well done.


From an essay recalling life in Nazi Germany called No Time to Think:

"Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk alone; you don’t want to “go out of your way to make trouble.” Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. ...In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, “It’s not so bad” or “You’re seeing things” or “You’re an alarmist.”

And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.

No Time to Think​

Explore bystander behavior, conformity, and obedience in a German college professor’s account of how he responded to Nazi policies and ideology.

www.facinghistory.org

 

[Josie]

Because they didn't always have that power. It's a slow and steady process of ICE getting more and more power to enforce more and more.

"Legislation in 1952 codified and carried forward the essential elements of the 1917 and 1924 acts. The same year, Border Patrol agents were first permitted to board and search a conveyance for illegal immigrants anywhere in the United States. For the first time, illegal entrants traveling within the country were subject to arrest."

"The early 1960s also witnessed aircraft-hijacking attempts and President John F. Kennedy ordered Border Patrol agents to accompany domestic flights to prevent takeovers. The Miami Sector of the Border Patrol coordinated the effort. By that time the business of alien smuggling began to involve drug smuggling also. The Border Patrol assisted other agencies in intercepting illegal drugs from Mexico."

"On March 1, 2003, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) was established, and the U.S. Border Patrol became part of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, a component of DHS."

Border Patrol History

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

The story of ICE isn't a story of protecting the border. It's a story of a government agency slowly but steadily over the course of 100 years gaining more and more power and resources. From a small start as just the border patrol, to an agency that can operate anywhere across the country. When we talk about ending ICE we're not talking about ending ICE, we're talking about cutting off a government agency that knows how to increase its power and influence over time.

I must've missed all of those posts during the Obama and Biden years when you thought ICE was a horrible agency that needed abolished.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I must've missed all of those posts during the Obama and Biden years when you thought ICE was a horrible agency that needed abolished.

This is the same game rightwingers played with the red scare from the end of WWII onward, they pushed a policy that created a nuclear arms race and resulted in wonderful policy like the Vietnam war. Every bid to create political points resulted in response that escalated the entire set of actions to near self destruction. Immigration is the most recent big wedge, and when the other side does your bidding, you get to play the "see, they do it tooo!" game, while the whole thing keeps spinning faster.

 

[Felis Leo]

I must've missed all of those posts during the Obama and Biden years when you thought ICE was a horrible agency that needed abolished.

I used to think Obama was not going far enough. I feel ashamed of the horrible unjust nonsense I used to believe in and support.