'A Year Ago I Was a Hero. Now I'm Treated Like Scum.'

[Ethel2]

No it's not. It's much worse. Again, it's no different than supporting a policy that says "No Blacks need apply." Particularly odious given that drafting a mandate that recognizes natural/acquired immunity was no more difficult or less workable.



That's the problem. The administration views vaccines as the only tool. The only metric by which they are measuring success is the number of jabs.

No, this isn't about racism. Its ONLY about public health. Public health and ONLY public health. Not racism. Not politics. Its about getting control of the pandemic using all the tools available to us-and one of the most potent ones is vaccination (fact). Schmucks who refuse to do the right thing will have some very tough choices to make if the OSHA mandate is upheld in the SCOTUS as most people hope it will be.
I think we can stipulate that the mandate isn't ideal. Neither are the vaccines. Few things in life are ideal. The positive elements of the vaccines and the mandates FAR outweigh the not so positive parts. There are no more excuses for the covidiots. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM.

 

[Rawley]

No, this isn't about racism. Its ONLY about public health. Public health and ONLY public health. Not racism. Not politics. Its about getting control of the pandemic using all the tools available to us-and one of the most potent ones is vaccination (fact). Schmucks who refuse to do the right thing will have some very tough choices to make if the OSHA mandate is upheld in the SCOTUS as most people hope it will be.
I think we can stipulate that the mandate isn't ideal. Neither are the vaccines. Few things in life are ideal. The positive elements of the vaccines and the mandates FAR outweigh the not so positive parts. There are no more excuses for the covidiots. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM.

Apt analogy. You considering the unvaccinated as inferior humans - "covidiots" is really no different than a racist considering blacks as"N*****rs"

 

[Ethel2]

Apt analogy. You considering the unvaccinated as inferior humans - "covidiots" is really no different than a racist considering blacks as"N*****rs"

Show me where I wrote that I consider them to be "inferior human beings". I think they are FOOLISH IGNORANT human beings, but the world is made up of all kinds of people. Those who make poor choices should fully assume responsibility for the consequences of their lunacy.
Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Rawley]

Show me where I wrote that I consider them to be "inferior human beings". I think they are FOOLISH IGNORANT human beings, but the world is made up of all kinds of people. Those who make poor choices should fully assume responsibility for the consequences of their lunacy.
Wouldn't you agree?

You cal them "covidiots" You call them selfish, ignorant, uncaring, immoral, dangerous.

And no. I don't agree. The 50-150 million people who have recovered are making very rational decisions. The others are making personal choices, not one that I would make, but I'm not going to exhort them. If you've been vaccinated, they pose little to no danger to you

 

[Ethel2]

You cal them "covidiots" You call them selfish, ignorant, uncaring, immoral, dangerous.

And no. I don't agree. The 50-150 million people who have recovered are making very rational decisions. The others are making personal choices, not one that I would make, but I'm not going to exhort them. If you've been vaccinated, they pose little to no danger to you

The covidiots are endangering normal people. They should not be allowed to remove a powerful bullet in our arsenal against covid. If they selfishly choose not to get vaccinated then they need to remove themselves from society and let the normal people handle it properly.
Hopefully it will come to that if the SCOTUS rules for sanity.

The rights of your fist end where my nose begins

 

[JasperL]

Apt analogy. You considering the unvaccinated as inferior humans - "covidiots" is really no different than a racist considering blacks as"N*****rs"

Well, the problem with your analogy is you can't cure being black in 3 minutes of your time, twice. And racists hate based on race alone - not the person. It's irrational.

And frankly the unvaccinated are primarily just selfish people. They don't care if the hospitals get overwhelmed, they don't care if they spread disease, and they're going to do nothing to control this pandemic. For the vast majority, their only concern is themselves - the end. They believe that they're not at risk, many are stupidly and ignorantly wrong about that, and too many believe that not getting vaccinated should result in no negative consequences. My goodness, school children who got their required vaccines before school, which is the VAST majority of them, know better.

That's not a race problem - it's a personal problem, and I don't respect it in the vast majority of cases. For young women, childbearing, I can sympathize with the fear, as contrary to the evidence as it might be. 80-90% of the rest of us lined up, got the shot, and it's helped to dramatically reduce serious cases, reduce the load on the healthcare system, and at least slows the spread of the virus itself. We don't need any thanks because it's the bare minimum. It's like wearing a seatbelt, or not driving drunk. But that doesn't mean we can't point out that being unvaccinated is exactly what a selfish person who has no regard or care for the impact of that decision by millions of them does to society, healthcare system, their neighbors, etc.

 

[Rawley]

Well, the problem with your analogy is you can't cure being black in 3 minutes of your time, twice. And racists hate based on race alone - not the person. It's irrational.

There is nothing to cure. They have a physical attribute - natural/acquired immunity that obviates the need for your "cure." Most of them have immunity greater/stronger than yours. The vitriol you spew against these folks on a daily basis is no less irrational than the garbage spewed by a racist.

 

[Ethel2]

Well, the problem with your analogy is you can't cure being black in 3 minutes of your time, twice. And racists hate based on race alone - not the person. It's irrational.

And frankly the unvaccinated are primarily just selfish people. They don't care if the hospitals get overwhelmed, they don't care if they spread disease, and they're going to do nothing to control this pandemic. For the vast majority, their only concern is themselves - the end. They believe that they're not at risk, many are stupidly and ignorantly wrong about that, and too many believe that not getting vaccinated should result in no negative consequences. My goodness, school children who got their required vaccines before school, which is the VAST majority of them, know better.

That's not a race problem - it's a personal problem, and I don't respect it in the vast majority of cases. For young women, childbearing, I can sympathize with the fear, as contrary to the evidence as it might be. 80-90% of the rest of us lined up, got the shot, and it's helped to dramatically reduce serious cases, reduce the load on the healthcare system, and at least slows the spread of the virus itself. We don't need any thanks because it's the bare minimum. It's like wearing a seatbelt, or not driving drunk. But that doesn't mean we can't point out that being unvaccinated is exactly what a selfish person who has no regard or care for the impact of that decision by millions of them does to society, healthcare system, their neighbors, etc.

Well said. I think most people believe that nearly every human being has intrinsic value. The ignorant can be educated; the stupid cannot be cured and must be isolated to protect others from the danger they may wreak.
It is those who can be educated but who refuse to do so that I have a problem with. Those who are smart enough to understand what needs to be done but instead buy into bullshit misinformation, I don't forgive them. They are selfish miscreants. And yes, thinking about it, Rawley is right: the covidiots are lesser human beings, not worthy of respect. They don't have the CAPACITY to make rational decisions because everything is about ME ME ME ME ME.
The country would be far better off without them.

 

[JasperL]

There is nothing to cure. They have a physical attribute - natural/acquired immunity that obviates the need for your "cure." Most of them have immunity greater/stronger than yours. The vitriol you spew against these folks on a daily basis is no less irrational than the garbage spewed by a racist.

Some have been previously infected, many weren't. In this example, the OP, I've seen no evidence she was ever infected, or the results of any antibody test, so you have no idea how protected she is versus me, or how protected unknown unvaccinated person X or Y or AA or YZZZ is. I have been vaccinated, and got a recent antibody test. I could post the evidence of both if needed for anyone such as an employer. We saw our hospitals full of idiots who thought they weren't at risk but ended up in ICU. They didn't have "immunity" stronger than the rest of the vaccinated, which is why so many of the unvaccinated died or had entirely avoidable serious cases.

The "vitriol" is also based on my belief that they are unnecessarily putting others at risk. In the OP, she worked in nursing homes and in a hospital full of very vulnerable patients. It's not "irrational" for me or others, such as her employer, to require that she do all she can to NOT KILL HER PATIENTS. That seems like a no-brainer decision to me for the person we're discussing and those like her. Even if she's been infected, and can show that, she's more protected and therefore still reduces the risk she will KILL A PATIENT if she gets at least one shot of a vaccine.

There's nothing irrational about any of that - it's cost/benefit, reducing the risk of harm, protecting patients, protecting the business, society. And I'm not expecting anyone to do anything me and billions and others have done, which is get vaccinated.

And I've said many times that if a person can show with an antibody test that they have adequate antibodies, I am fine with a policy that allows them the same access/employment as vaccinated.

 

[Rawley]

Some have been previously infected, many weren't. In this example, the OP, I've seen no evidence she was ever infected, or the results of any antibody test, so you have no idea how protected she is versus me, or how protected unknown unvaccinated person X or Y or AA or YZZZ is. I have been vaccinated, and got a recent antibody test. I could post the evidence of both if needed for anyone such as an employer. We saw our hospitals full of idiots who thought they weren't at risk but ended up in ICU. They didn't have "immunity" stronger than the rest of the vaccinated, which is why so many of the unvaccinated died or had entirely avoidable serious cases.

The "vitriol" is also based on my belief that they are unnecessarily putting others at risk. In the OP, she worked in nursing homes and in a hospital full of very vulnerable patients. It's not "irrational" for me or others, such as her employer, to require that she do all she can to NOT KILL HER PATIENTS. That seems like a no-brainer decision to me for the person we're discussing and those like her. Even if she's been infected, and can show that, she's more protected and therefore still reduces the risk she will KILL A PATIENT if she gets at least one shot of a vaccine.

There's nothing irrational about any of that - it's cost/benefit, reducing the risk of harm, protecting patients, protecting the business, society. And I'm not expecting anyone to do anything me and billions and others have done, which is get vaccinated.

And I've said many times that if a person can show with an antibody test that they have adequate antibodies, I am fine with a policy that allows them the same access/employment as vaccinated.

Well, you support mandates that discriminate against these people. I find that as abhorant, ignorant and arbirtrary as laws/policies that discriminate on the basis of race.

 

[Ethel2]

Well, you support mandates that discriminate against these people. I find that as abhorant, ignorant and arbirtrary as laws/policies that discriminate on the basis of race.

Race is a protected minority.
Stupid isn’t.

 

[JasperL]

Well, you support mandates that discriminate against these people. I find that as abhorant, ignorant and arbirtrary as laws/policies that discriminate on the basis of race.

Yeah, well, laws against drunk driving "discriminate" against drunk drivers. I don't know why I'm supposed to care all that much. 240 million Americans have had at least one shot. Boo ****ing hoo for those not willing to do their part.

And I explained why they are far from "arbitrary" but if all you got is ignoring that and coming back with the equivalent of, NUH UHHH!!!! then probably best not to continue.

 

[Rawley]

Yeah, well, laws against drunk driving "discriminate" against drunk drivers. I don't know why I'm supposed to care all that much. 240 million Americans have had at least one shot. Boo ****ing hoo for those not willing to do their part.

And I explained why they are far from "arbitrary" but if all you got is ignoring that and coming back with the equivalent of, NUH UHHH!!!! then probably best not to continue.

I am getting a bit tired of stomping over all over the misinformation and vitriol you post here. It really is like trying to debate a racist - you'll never convince them their ignorance and discrimination is wrong

 

[Ethel2]

I am getting a bit tired of stomping over all over the misinformation and vitriol you post here. It really is like trying to debate a racist - you'll never convince them their ignorance and discrimination is wrong

Give me a break
You discriminate every day. Everyone does. You just don’t like THIS kind of discrimination, against the stupid. That’s what covidiots are: stupid. There are two safe and highly effective vaccines that can save them, their families, their friends, and total strangers a lot of grief and they won’t do it because of some idiotic personal choice CRAP. Sometimes you have to do things you aren’t completely comfortable with in life-for the greater good.
But with the covidiots it’s only about ME!

 

[JasperL]

I am getting a bit tired of stomping over all over the misinformation and vitriol you post here. It really is like trying to debate a racist - you'll never convince them their ignorance and discrimination is wrong

There's no misinformation. If you believe I'm promoting misinformation, or ignorance, point out what, and I'll back up my views.

And discrimination when it's arbitrary is wrong. Drunk driving laws discriminate against drunk drivers. They are not wrong, even though the VAST majority of drunk drivers tonight won't kill anyone or crash their cars. They'll get home safely with no one the wiser. That doesn't make the laws against drunk driving wrong, although they are deliberately discriminatory against certain behavior.

Requiring employees to do what 240 million Americans have done, and that best protects patients, such as Becca's nursing home residents or vulnerable people in the hospital, is not arbitrary. It's rational, serves a noble goal - not killing people, and protecting the worker, and the business. There is simply nothing arbitrary about that.

It's fine for people not to AGREE with some policies. LIfe is like that. We don't always get the policy we prefer, and we live with that and move on, because we are adults, not spoiled children who believe the entire world revolves around them and what they want. What's illegitimate is to attribute bad motives to that policy, because you do not agree.

 

[redbeer]

She endangered the health of those she was tasked to protect through her stubborn recklessness. I don't call that 'heroic'; most normal people would call her actions dangerously stupid.

"Stubborn recklessness"??.....how is going to a job wherein she could die, while most of us were sheltered up at home, hiding in caves "stubborn recklessness"? I never quit working, never stayed in the house, never drawed unemployment through all this pandemic.....am I too "stubbornly reckless"? I'm no where near in the same class as this young woman, for I was not on the front lines as her, and for this reason I cannot and will not accuse her of "stubborn recklessness"......good Lord.

 

[redbeer]

No, we emphatically do not know what you are suggesting. Nobody has established beyond any doubt that the Wuhan lab was the source of the virus.

Chinese, CCP propaganda.

 

[Rawley]

Give me a break
You discriminate every day. Everyone does. You just don’t like THIS kind of discrimination, against the stupid. That’s what covidiots are: stupid. There are two safe and highly effective vaccines that can save them, their families, their friends, and total strangers a lot of grief and they won’t do it because of some idiotic personal choice CRAP. Sometimes you have to do things you aren’t completely comfortable with in life-for the greater good.
But with the covidiots it’s only about ME!

I don't fire people on on unscientific, ignorant basis.

 

[Ethel2]

I don't fire people on on unscientific, ignorant basis.

I wouldn’t either.
Healthcare workers who aren’t willing to protect their patients should sell used cars.

 

[Ouroboros]

Yeah
Good luck with that.
What would really be insane is for our military leaders to allow our armed forces to be overrun with covid and be unprepared to respond to a threat. That order is and will continue to be enforced. The military covidiots can sell used cars after they are discharged for insubordination without benefits. Meanwhile your President’s OSHA mandate has been upheld by the CONSERVATIVE sixth court of appeals. Although this will be settled in the SCOTUS this ruling is a lot different than the “fatally flawed” ruling previously.
Next the healthcare mandate will be reinstated.

“
A 2-1 majority of the court found that OSHA was likely within its legal authority to implement the "emergency temporary standard" requiring vaccines or testing.

"Fundamentally, the ETS is an important step in curtailing the transmission of a deadly virus that has killed over 800,000 people in the United States, brought our healthcare system to its knees, forced businesses to shut down for months on end, and cost hundreds of thousands of workers their jobs," Judge Jane Stranch wrote for the court

Yes, if SCOTUS finalizes the expedient verdict, that will be the purely legal proof that I would require. The executive branch has no business making laws, good or bad.

Such a mandate will still be immoral, and Covid won’t go away, but all the Vax Nazis will tell themselves that they saved a lot of lives by selling their souls. That is, if they think about the matter at all.

 

[Ouroboros]

No, but let's look at the numbers. If as much as 1% was unvaccinated, but 30% new cases, that means that 1 percent is doing 30 percent of cases, and 99% is doing 70 percent of cases. It shows that vaccination does have a strong positive effect

Then you’re not convincing me that the vaccinated aren’t passing on the majority of new infections.

 

[RAMOSS]

Then you’re not convincing me that the vaccinated aren’t passing on the majority of new infections.

When you have over 99% of the population that are vaccinated, that is a likely scenerio. However, when you got less than 1% of people not vaccinated, and they are almost 1/3 the cases, that should tell you that vaccination provides a strong protection.

 

[Ouroboros]

Any privately owned business can impose whatever conditions of employment it deems necessary, within the law. Try taking your employer to court because smoking is not permitted on their premises and you don't like it. You'll lose.

“Within the law” was covered in my post.

 

[Ethel2]

Yes, if SCOTUS finalizes the expedient verdict, that will be the purely legal proof that I would require. The executive branch has no business making laws, good or bad.

Such a mandate will still be immoral, and Covid won’t go away, but all the Vax Nazis will tell themselves that they saved a lot of lives by selling their souls. That is, if they think about the matter at all.

Ummmm…this may be news to you but it was the legislative branch that passed the OSHA law. And the court decided that it’s within OSHAs purview to regulate workplace safety.
If SCOTUS upholds the current court ruling it will reaffirm what OSHA was created for.
Let’s hope it happens.

 

[Ouroboros]

When you have over 99% of the population that are vaccinated, that is a likely scenerio. However, when you got less than 1% of people not vaccinated, and they are almost 1/3 the cases, that should tell you that vaccination provides a strong protection.

I for one brought up Gibraltar because it suggests that vaccination may not impede transmissibility as much as claimed. I never claimed that the unvaccinated couldn’t get the virus, though it would be a refutation of my position if most of the Un-Vaxxed had already contracted Covid but still caught the disease again.