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A woman can cheat on you, tell you a child is yours when it's not and then keep you on the hook for 18 years even after you prove it's not your child.

dex4974

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This is evil. You can be hooked for 18 years even after you prove she cheated and the child isn't yours. The particular case I'm showing here is just an example. It's the standard that is the issue. Men are being forced under threat of jail to pay for children that they were tricked into believing are theirs. If a man accepts a child as his under false pretenses the agreement should be invalid.

https://dadsdivorce.com/articles/as...t-yours-can-i-kick-my-spouse-out-of-my-house/

"Family courts are courts of equity and if the biological father is not produced, the courts may completely overlook your victimization because the court is focused on the best interest of the child. What is in the child’s best interest may be to continue to require you to support the child, even though you know you are not the biological father."

"In addition to proving that the mother committed fraud, it is important to also identify and locate the biological father. Even if you can prove you are not the biological father, the court may not change the judgment. It is unlikely that the court will remove you as the father unless there is another man it can name as the child’s father."
 
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gino

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An feminists complain that they are being discriminated against.

Take the red pile....
 

dex4974

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An feminists complain that they are being discriminated against.

Take the red pile....

Men and women are both discriminated against in various situations. The problem is the issues men face do not get the attention they deserve while feminism is mainstream. Any effort to bring attention to discrimination against men is often seen as an attempt to undermine the issues women face. Society in general has very little empathy towards men. Our issues are not important to society and many people just roll their eyes at attempts to talk about the struggles of men.
 
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maquiscat

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This is evil. You can be hooked for 18 years even after you prove she cheated and the child isn't yours. The particular case I'm showing here is just an example. It's the standard that is the issue. Men are being forced under threat of jail to pay for children that they were tricked into believing are theirs. If a man accepts a child as his under false pretenses the agreement should be invalid.

https://dadsdivorce.com/articles/as...t-yours-can-i-kick-my-spouse-out-of-my-house/

"Family courts are courts of equity and if the biological father is not produced, the courts may completely overlook your victimization because the court is focused on the best interest of the child. What is in the child’s best interest may be to continue to require you to support the child, even though you know you are not the biological father."

"In addition to proving that the mother committed fraud, it is important to also identify and locate the biological father. Even if you can prove you are not the biological father, the court may not change the judgment. It is unlikely that the court will remove you as the father unless there is another man it can name as the child’s father."
This varies widely from state to state. In some states, even if the biological father comes forth prior to the birth and the mother claims the biological father as such, if she is married to another man, the legal husband is required to be listed as the father on the birth certificate. Beyond that, it also varies whether that can be changed after the fact or not.

My only issue here is that you seem to be conflating the standards of a few areas into all, as if no other variations exist, including that there are states that will not force a man to be responsible if he is found to be not the biological father.

I will also add, that if a man accepts responsibility without checking paternity early on, then he is on the hook for responsibility until they are an adult.
 

vegas giants

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This is evil. You can be hooked for 18 years even after you prove she cheated and the child isn't yours. The particular case I'm showing here is just an example. It's the standard that is the issue. Men are being forced under threat of jail to pay for children that they were tricked into believing are theirs. If a man accepts a child as his under false pretenses the agreement should be invalid.

https://dadsdivorce.com/articles/as...t-yours-can-i-kick-my-spouse-out-of-my-house/

"Family courts are courts of equity and if the biological father is not produced, the courts may completely overlook your victimization because the court is focused on the best interest of the child. What is in the child’s best interest may be to continue to require you to support the child, even though you know you are not the biological father."

"In addition to proving that the mother committed fraud, it is important to also identify and locate the biological father. Even if you can prove you are not the biological father, the court may not change the judgment. It is unlikely that the court will remove you as the father unless there is another man it can name as the child’s father."
Its rare...but it's wrong when it happens
 

maquiscat

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Men and women are both discriminated against in various situations. The problem is the issues men face do not get the attention they deserve while feminism is mainstream. Any effort to bring attention to discrimination against men is often seen as an attempt to undermine the issues women face. Society in general has very little empathy towards men. Our issues are not important to society and many people just roll their eyes at attempts to talk about the struggles of men.
I agree with this. Just because one group gets more discrimination, does not mean we ignore the discrimination of another group. I frequently use rape as an example. Even though women are indeed raped more than men are, they are also believed more than men are as victims.
 

dex4974

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This varies widely from state to state. In some states, even if the biological father comes forth prior to the birth and the mother claims the biological father as such, if she is married to another man, the legal husband is required to be listed as the father on the birth certificate. Beyond that, it also varies whether that can be changed after the fact or not.

My only issue here is that you seem to be conflating the standards of a few areas into all, as if no other variations exist, including that there are states that will not force a man to be responsible if he is found to be not the biological father.

I will also add, that if a man accepts responsibility without checking paternity early on, then he is on the hook for responsibility until they are an adult.

Family courts victimize men to varying degrees in most states. You're right that it doesn't always happen everywhere. Reason can win.
 

dex4974

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Its rare...but it's wrong when it happens

It's more common than you might think. Infidelity that leads to lying about paternity is quite common and this is somewhat common fallout of that.
 

Visbek

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This is evil.....
Or, you're biased. You, after all, are linking a post from a site called "DadsDivorce" which is from a firm that specializes in divorces.

The site itself is actually pretty much on point. Your options depend upon the jurisdiction and the circumstances; if you're getting a divorce and find out the kids had a different biological father, you're going to need a lawyer. If the mother did in fact engage in deception, you can try to stop support by proving she engaged in fraud.

And no, women don't randomly or constantly trick men into child support. Spare us the misogynistic MRA nonsense, kthx.
 

Aunt Antifa

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I agree with this. Just because one group gets more discrimination, does not mean we ignore the discrimination of another group. I frequently use rape as an example. Even though women are indeed raped more than men are, they are also believed more than men are as victims.

This is not discrimination.
 

dex4974

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Or, you're biased. You, after all, are linking a post from a site called "DadsDivorce" which is from a firm that specializes in divorces.

The site itself is actually pretty much on point. Your options depend upon the jurisdiction and the circumstances; if you're getting a divorce and find out the kids had a different biological father, you're going to need a lawyer. If the mother did in fact engage in deception, you can try to stop support by proving she engaged in fraud.

And no, women don't randomly or constantly trick men into child support. Spare us the misogynistic MRA nonsense, kthx.


I'm probably the only one that's biased, right? ;) I'm glad you admitted the site is on point. Did you notice the part where it said the guy is most likely screwed if the real father is not produced?
 

Aunt Antifa

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Is it wrong?

I don’t know. Your OP‘s framing of the issue is so much more simplistic than when you actually read the details of how judgements are built. Did the guy in question show up in court to argue? If not, it’s an automatic judgement against. Biology is not the only criteria for determining whether someone is liable for support. What if it’s a long time partnership in which he took on all the financial obligations per an agreement between the two? (Dont’ bother arguing this, it’s about different municipal definitiosn and jurisdiction, it’s not philosophical.)
 

dex4974

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I don’t know. Your OP‘s framing of the issue is so much more simplistic than when you actually read the details of how judgements are built. Did the guy in question show up in court to argue? If not, it’s an automatic judgement against. Biology is not the only criteria for determining whether someone is liable for support. What if it’s a long time partnership in which he took on all the financial obligations per an agreement between the two? (Dont’ bother arguing this, it’s about different municipal definitiosn and jurisdiction, it’s not philosophical.)

You should focus less on the specific case and more on the standard outlined by the website. Of course there will be times that guys should be liable even if they are not the biological father, but with a standard like that there will also be times when a guy gets completely victimized and screwed by a family court system that is stacked against him.
 

dex4974

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If the mother did in fact engage in deception, you can try to stop support by proving she engaged in fraud.

How could a woman that cheated and was impregnated by another man not have engaged in deception? Also the lawyer goes into detail about just how difficult it is to prove fraud to the court. A lot of times dude will just be screwed.
 

Aunt Antifa

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You should focus less on the specific case and more on the standard outlined by the website. Of course there will be times that guys should be liable even if they are not the biological father, but with a standard like that there will also be times when a guy gets completely victimized and screwed by a family court system that is stacked against him.

Um, no. The website’s answer to that specific question was pretty broad and explained the reasoning and challenges. No guy is being railroaded for him to feel bad about his penis.

You are extrapolating things that are not there.
 

vegas giants

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It's more common than you might think. Infidelity that leads to lying about paternity is quite common and this is somewhat common fallout of that.
It's actually quite rare.
 

dex4974

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Um, no. The website’s answer to that specific question was pretty broad and explained the reasoning and challenges. No guy is being railroaded for him to feel bad about his penis.

You are extrapolating things that are not there.

That's not what I extrapolated. That is just your assumption of what I extrapolated. Anyway, like the lawyer said, without some damning evidence and the ability to produce the father there is a good chance many courts will not stop seeing you as the father.
 

btthegreat

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This is evil. You can be hooked for 18 years even after you prove she cheated and the child isn't yours. The particular case I'm showing here is just an example. It's the standard that is the issue. Men are being forced under threat of jail to pay for children that they were tricked into believing are theirs. If a man accepts a child as his under false pretenses the agreement should be invalid.

https://dadsdivorce.com/articles/as...t-yours-can-i-kick-my-spouse-out-of-my-house/

"Family courts are courts of equity and if the biological father is not produced, the courts may completely overlook your victimization because the court is focused on the best interest of the child. What is in the child’s best interest may be to continue to require you to support the child, even though you know you are not the biological father."

"In addition to proving that the mother committed fraud, it is important to also identify and locate the biological father. Even if you can prove you are not the biological father, the court may not change the judgment. It is unlikely that the court will remove you as the father unless there is another man it can name as the child’s father."
Its actually an interesting issue, the rationale behind which is not much different from the notion of 'alimony'. Its a combination of two ideas. The woman has committed a 'fraud', and obviously receives some ancillary benefit in a constant unjust enrichment scheme, but the legal commitment actually is with an innocent child and the child has become dependent on that benefit through no fault of its own and a definite social and economic benefit remains attached to that money continuing. Nobody else wants to pick up the economic slack for 'Dad' so he can stop.

Matrimonial alimony is really founded on a promise made for economic support on which life altering decisions are made for an extended period of time which create and exacerbate a disparate economic power base between the parties. Dissolving the relationship on which that dependency depends, creates an immediate hardship and victim. If it is true in a marriage where both parties have some independent legal rights ( albeit them historically unequal), it is certainly to true when one of them is a minor. That alimony check is normally not a forever deal, however. Its about a rehabilitative period towards self sufficiency. So is child support.

It may appear I am arguing in favor of this, but I am just underlying the historic legal and moral underpinnings. I think if society ( govt) feels so strongly that this support continue to this child for its subsistence, it ought to eventually begin to pay it . Lets see these child support payments taper away in the course of say 6 to 9 months while we collectively figure out how much we can hoist onto Mom and how much of a stipend through govt support this new economic family unit will need ( via SNAP, ADC, Housing Vouchers etc. Its what we do anyway when there is not 'fraud' involved.
 

dex4974

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It's actually quite rare.

I don't care to argue that point further, but I will say just the fact that it's possible at all is wrong and should be cause for concern. Also family courts are stacked against men in more ways than just this.
 

Aunt Antifa

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That's not what I extrapolated. That is just your assumption of what I extrapolated. Anyway, like the lawyer said, without some damning evidence and the ability to produce the father there is a good chance many courts will not stop seeing you as the father.

No, that is not what the lawyer said.
 

vegas giants

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I don't care to argue that point further, but I will say just the fact that it's possible at all is wrong and should be cause for concern. Also family courts are stacked against men in more ways than just this.
As I said its wrong but actually quite rare
 

CaughtInThe

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why don't they just get a DNA test?
 

swing_voter

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If you prove, with a DNA test, that the baby isn't yours, you won't have to pay child support.

Seriously, it's pretty uncommon for a woman to falsely accuse someone of being the dad.

There's a lot more common things to worry about when dating, than being accused of being a dad.
 

dex4974

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No, that is not what the lawyer said.

"It is unlikely that the court will remove you as the father unless there is another man it can name as the child’s father."

Could you explain to me what that means? And yes, it is difficult to prove fraud in a family court because mom can just say she didn't know. It's "dad's" responsibility to prove otherwise, which is hard.
 
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