"A violent felon can buy (a gun) over the Internet with no background check..

[iguanaman]

There are straw man purchase laws. Just not enforced much. How would you propose addressing it?

I would like every gun sold to be registered to an individual like cars are. Then when they turn up in a crime we will know where they came from. Pretty much a nightmare for you I bet. God forbid you might suffer consequences for an illegal act, that is against the 2nd amendment for sure.

 

[BretJ]

I would like every gun sold to be registered to an individual like cars are. Then when they turn up in a crime we will know where they came from. Pretty much a nightmare for you I bet.

I would be all for it if you could guarantee that those registration records could never be used to confiscate firearms from lawful individuals. The threat of that is more concerning than any benefit. They can already do that for the most part anyway. You realize that Canada dropped the idea as too costly and not worth the effort aye?

 

[mtm1963]

Obama said this and PF rates it mostly true. Thoughts?
Obama: Violent felons can buy guns online without background checks | PolitiFact

don't trust politifact.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

I would like every gun sold to be registered to an individual like cars are. Then when they turn up in a crime we will know where they came from. Pretty much a nightmare for you I bet. God forbid you might suffer consequences for an illegal act, that is against the 2nd amendment for sure.

NOOOOOOO! If we register all guns sold, then the government WILL come and confiscate all the guns, just like they did in Switzerland and Israel and Canada!

Oh, wait....

 

[iguanaman]

I would be all for it if you could guarantee that those registration records could never be used to confiscate firearms from lawful individuals. The threat of that is more concerning than any benefit. They can already do that for the most part anyway. You realize that Canada dropped the idea as too costly and not worth the effort aye?

As long as you can guarantee my car won't be confiscated because it is registered. Oh wait you can't. The "costs" of a registration program could be paid by gun owners/makers easily like we pay for car registrations.

 

[Lutherf]

I would like every gun sold to be registered to an individual like cars are. Then when they turn up in a crime we will know where they came from. Pretty much a nightmare for you I bet. God forbid you might suffer consequences for an illegal act, that is against the 2nd amendment for sure.

That's great but once again it doesn't stop a crime. All it does is expedite the clean up process.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

don't trust politifact.

Because reality has a liberal bias, and so we must not even consider listening to reality....

 

[iguanaman]

That's great but once again it doesn't stop a crime. All it does is expedite the clean up process.

The idea is that if guns are all registered those that supply guns to felons could be prosecuted making them less likely to behave illegally and taking those that do out of circulation. Like we prosecute bank robbers to prevent future bank robberies. It's real complicated, probably over your head.

 

[Lutherf]

I idea is that if guns are all registered those that supply guns to felons could be prosecuted making them less likely to behave illegally. Like we prosecute bank robbers to prevent bank robberies. It's real complicated, probably over your head.

Just to make sure I understand you, you're suggesting that if I sell a gun to my next door neighbor that I've known for 20 years but I do a background check anyway and he comes up clean but then he goes off and shoots his wife in the head you want to arrest me for selling him the gun?

 

[iguanaman]

Just to make sure I understand you, you're suggesting that if I sell a gun to my next door neighbor that I've known for 20 years but I do a background check anyway and he comes up clean but then he goes off and shoots his wife in the head you want to arrest me for selling him the gun?

No, I said those that supply guns to felons or others that are not allowed to buy a weapon would be prosecuted. Was I unclear?

 

[Lutherf]

No, I said those that supply guns to felons or others that are not allowed to buy a weapon would be prosecuted. Was I unclear?

Yeah, and what I'm getting at is that career criminals generally get their guns from other criminals and folks who decide that today is the day they are going to become a criminal don't have a record that prevents them from getting a gun.

 

[TurtleDude]

Does anyone have an opinion on the Bersa .380 Thunder? Other than the fact it's a .380. LOL

Bersas have a reputation as being very decent guns for the money you pay for them. Though they don't advertise like TAURUS, my view is that they tend to need less warranty work. I bought one of these years ago when there was a sale on them and gave it to a friend of mine who had smaller hands and didn't want say a full size nine. She didn't shoot it all that much but it worked well. 380s with modern ammo are fine for self defense

 

[iguanaman]

Yeah, and what I'm getting at is that career criminals generally get their guns from other criminals and folks who decide that today is the day they are going to become a criminal don't have a record that prevents them from getting a gun.

Well that is the price we pay for our "freedoms" but it still is no excuse for not registering guns and letting scumbags profit from selling weapons to criminals and mental patients without fear of prosecution.

 

[Captain America]

Bersas have a reputation as being very decent guns for the money you pay for them. Though they don't advertise like TAURUS, my view is that they tend to need less warranty work. I bought one of these years ago when there was a sale on them and gave it to a friend of mine who had smaller hands and didn't want say a full size nine. She didn't shoot it all that much but it worked well. 380s with modern ammo are fine for self defense

Thanks TD. They have them on cheaperthandirt.com about 100.00 cheaper than Gander. But I wanna feel one before I buy one. My hand might be a tad too big. People I know and trust, gunwise, have told me the same thing you did. Thanks for validating. I'm going to look further into the Bersa. I wish I had 600.00-700.00 to drop on a new pistol. Baby steps... LOL

 

[TurtleDude]

Thanks TD. They have them on cheaperthandirt.com about 100.00 cheaper than Gander. But I wanna feel one before I buy one. My hand might be a tad too big. People I know and trust, gunwise, have told me the same thing you did. Thanks for validating. I'm going to look further into the Bersa. I wish I had 600.00-700.00 to drop on a new pistol. Baby steps... LOL

Unless you are buying something you plan on running lots of rounds through, it should serve you fine. Its hard to wear a gun out-chances are you need to be shooting thousands of rounds to do that.

 

[Captain America]

Unless you are buying something you plan on running lots of rounds through, it should serve you fine. Its hard to wear a gun out-chances are you need to be shooting thousands of rounds to do that.

I wish..................

 

[BretJ]

As long as you can guarantee my car won't be confiscated because it is registered. Oh wait you can't. The "costs" of a registration program could be paid by gun owners/makers easily like we pay for car registrations.

Seeing as registration has been used to confiscate firearms from otherwise legal, lawful owners in several countries and U.S. states, I would say it is far more likely to happen than confiscation of a vehicle. If you are not willing to address that one very important concern, it is pointless to ever even discuss it. I see, we should require registered voters to pay a fee to vote in order to purchase and maintain voting equipment and pay staff.

 

[TurtleDude]

I wish..................

years ago I had a chinese made AK style rifle-one of the middle of the road NORINCO jobs and the instruction manual said it had an average service life of 5000 rounds (which is still about 1000 dollars worth of ammo-3X what the rifle cost) and I put lots more through it but I talked to a friend of mine who has dual citizenship and served in the Russian Naval Infantry with an MOS of Armorer and he noted that that 5000 round service life meant the rounds that could be expected to be shot through the weapon before it needed armorer attention (like new springs etc).

Target rifles shooting hot rounds and 9mm pistols fed a constant diet of FMJ loads will wear the barrels out

for match long range target rifles shooting stuff like the 300 magnum, top competitors change barrels around 1000 rounds. I was changing barrels in my EAA Gold Team Race pistol every 10K rounds because the hot 9x21 loads were wearing the barrel out to the point it wouldn't hold under 5" at 50 yards which was way too sloppy for Grand Master Level USPSA shooting.

In all the years I have shot I only completely wore a gun out-I cracked the frame on a COLT GOLD CUP that I bought used. The prior owner said he had put lots of rounds through it and I used it for "Bowling pin" matches where we shot heavy heavy loads (like a 225 grain TFP lead round going close to 1000 FPS) with a heavy compensated barrel. well over 100K rounds later the gun cracked. My father said one of his welders could have repaired it but I figured I had got my 400 bucks out of that pistol-even though the crack was not one which stopped me from using the pistol though it would have ultimately done that.

Modern Firearms are well made

 

[Lutherf]

Well that is the price we pay for our "freedoms" but it still is no excuse for not registering guns and letting scumbags profit from selling weapons to criminals and mental patients without fear of prosecution.

With all due respect, of the 49 "mass murders" since 1982 that Mother Jones lists 2 were listed as purchased from an individual.

A Guide to Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones

This idea that dangerous felons get their firearms from unlicensed dealers is utter bull****. It's political propaganda and nothing more.

-edit-

Just to correct the record, it's 62 mass murders and 49 where the gun(s) was purchased legally.

 

[TurtleDude]

Well that is the price we pay for our "freedoms" but it still is no excuse for not registering guns and letting scumbags profit from selling weapons to criminals and mental patients without fear of prosecution.

stop the fibbing. registration has no value whatsoever in combating crime. ITs only purpose is to harass gun owners and facilitate confiscations which is why every Banite organization has the warm fuzzies for registration,

 

[iguanaman]

Seeing as registration has been used to confiscate firearms from otherwise legal, lawful owners in several countries and U.S. states, I would say it is far more likely to happen than confiscation of a vehicle. If you are not willing to address that one very important concern, it is pointless to ever even discuss it. I see, we should require registered voters to pay a fee to vote in order to purchase and maintain voting equipment and pay staff.

Hmm. Doesn't the Constitution say something about owning guns? Isn't that what you are asking for? You want more than the 2nd amendment? The whole fuss about registering guns is simply because gun owners and gun makers don't want want any responsibility or consequences for mishandling guns or breaking the law by selling them to felons. I see no Constitutional protection for any of that but it sure does say we cannot confiscate them from lawful owners doesn't it?

 

[BretJ]

Hmm. Doesn't the Constitution say something about owning guns? Isn't that what you are asking for? You want more than the 2nd amendment? The whole fuss about registering guns is simply because gun owners and gun makers don't want want any responsibility or consequences for mishandling guns or breaking the law by selling them to felons. I see no Constitutional protection for any of that but it sure does say we cannot confiscate them from lawful owners doesn't it?

Really? Happened in California and Louisiana....California confiscated rifles that were purchased legally by lawful individuals. In addition, that is exactly what happened in the very countries held up as models of how to do gun control right by your gun control kindred.

If registration is that important and confiscation is the only thing holding it up, why not address it? What is so scary to you that you would not entertain language in a registration bill that would address use of the records for confiscation??

 

[iguanaman]

Really? Happened in California and Louisiana....California confiscated rifles that were purchased legally by lawful individuals. In addition, that is exactly what happened in the very countries held up as models of how to do gun control right by your gun control kindred.

If registration is that important and confiscation is the only thing holding it up, why not address it? What is so scary to you that you would not entertain language in a registration bill that would address use of the records for confiscation??

Of course I would if that meant gun registration could be implemented. It is a straw man anyway and the real reasons are what I already stated. It might impede gun sales both legal and illegal which would negatively effect gun makers bottom line so it is off the table. With 50,000 guns confiscated in a decade in Chicago alone, you can see how lucrative the illegal gun market is. Criminals are big consumers of guns, duh.

 

[BretJ]

Of course I would if that meant gun registration could be implemented. It is a straw man anyway and the real reasons are what I already stated. It might impede gun sales both legal and illegal which would negatively effect gun makers bottom line so it is off the table. With 50,000 guns confiscated in a decade in Chicago alone, you can see how lucrative the illegal gun market is. Criminals are big consumers of guns, duh.

Care to define how it is a strawman? The fact that registration has been used to confiscate firearms here in the U.S. says it is a valid concern and not a strawman. The fact that it happened that way in other countries your kindred want to emulate shows it is not a strawman.

Rapists are big consumers of beer. We need to regulate beer more. Hehehe...you are one to talk about strawman.....

 

[iguanaman]

Care to define how it is a strawman? The fact that registration has been used to confiscate firearms here in the U.S. says it is a valid concern and not a strawman. The fact that it happened that way in other countries your kindred want to emulate shows it is not a strawman.

Rapists are big consumers of beer. We need to regulate beer more. Hehehe...you are one to talk about strawman.....

I was merely pointing out the vested interest that gun makers have in preserving the flow of guns to criminals. We should not let them or their mouthpiece the NRA dictate what methods we use to reduce that flow. It's like letting the fox guard the henhouse.