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A Turning Point In The War...?

VTA

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A breakthrough for Iraqi forces.

Sunday, September 18, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

Only weeks ago--until Katrina stole the headlines--Washington was deep in the grip of yet another of its "quagmire" panics about Iraq. We don't want to make the opposite mistake of over-optimism. But the recent Iraqi victory in the battle of Tal Afar could be a turning point in the war against the terrorists.

In recent days Iraqi forces--yes, Iraqi forces--have led the largest urban assault there since the liberation of Fallujah last November. Meanwhile, Iraq and the United States are finally ratcheting up the pressure on Syria, with U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad saying "all options"--including military force--"are on the table" when it comes to stopping terrorist infiltration from that country. Without Syria's help, the insurgency would be seriously weakened.

There are good reasons to believe the current operation in Tal Afar--a largely Turkoman city near the Syrian border--will be a model of things to come. Previous attempts to clean the terrorists out of Tal Afar and other cities in northern and western Iraq have too often seen the insurgents melt away only to return when the U.S. spearhead withdrew. This time Iraqis are leading the fight and, most important, many will stay so the people of Tal Afar can begin to believe they can live free of terrorist intimidation.

A force of about 5,000 Iraqis and 3,800 Americans killed at least 157 terrorists, detained 440 suspects, and discovered 34 weapons caches, all while suffering minimal casualties. "The terrorists are losing their morale. They couldn't resist as they did in Fallujah," Iraqi President Jalal Talabani told us in an interview last week in New York, where he was attending the United Nations General Assembly.

------------ *Snip*

A U.S. officer with detailed knowledge offered us this assessment: "The Tal Afar operation has been a sweeping success for the Iraqi Security Forces in many ways. There is an Iraqi Army Brigade headquarters with four infantry battalions, a Special Police Commando Brigade headquarters with two battalions, and an Army Transportation battalion in the fight up there. The Police Commandos and one of the Army battalions were flown there by the Iraqi Air Force's own C-130 fleet executing their first combat support missions." Eight Iraqi soldiers and one American have died in the offensive.
 

IValueFreedom

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Hmm... I wonder why the link says "link" instead of the URL?

Maybe... I'm just guessing... is because it's from the OpinionJournal from the Wall Street Journal. Hmm... the opinion page of a generally conservative paper. Just seems impossible that something could be written to appease their followers. No, that would just be crazy. The EDITORIAL PIECE must be true!
 

VTA

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IValueFreedom said:
Hmm... I wonder why the link says "link" instead of the URL?
It says "link" because that's what it is. Clicking on it to finish the read would certainly unravel the mystery...:roll:

Nice try...

Not really.

IValueFreedom said:
Maybe... I'm just guessing... is because it's from the OpinionJournal from the Wall Street Journal. Hmm... the opinion page of a generally conservative paper. Just seems impossible that something could be written to appease their followers. No, that would just be crazy. The EDITORIAL PIECE must be true!
As are a multitude of articles posted as absolutes; some chair jockey far away from the action, spouting off on something he's really not in a position to judge. Ironically the one that hints at any kind of optimism is met with... ire?

Really IVF, your quibbling over form instead of the function of the topic is a farce, devoid of any substance relevant to the actual subject.
 
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hawk2

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IValueFreedom said:
Hmm... I wonder why the link says "link" instead of the URL?

Maybe... I'm just guessing... is because it's from the OpinionJournal from the Wall Street Journal. Hmm... the opinion page of a generally conservative paper. Just seems impossible that something could be written to appease their followers. No, that would just be crazy. The EDITORIAL PIECE must be true!
What sort of person would derive a perverse sense of pleasure by denigrating some good news from Iraq?

Do you stick kittens in the microwave for other laughs?
 

GarzaUK

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Turning Point?

Wasn't the interim government meant to be a turning point? The Iraqi elections perhaps? A written Constitution? The devestation of Fallujah?

I've heard this all before.
 

IValueFreedom

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hawk2 said:
What sort of person would derive a perverse sense of pleasure by denigrating some good news from Iraq?

Do you stick kittens in the microwave for other laughs?
Haha.

Did you even read the article? Because I read the whole thing, not just what he/she posted (although he/she did post ~80% of it). It is filled with pro-war propoganda.

Yes, I think it's good that Americans weren't killed there. But I don't believe they should be there in the first place, so for them to get closer to acheiving a goal in which I don't agree with, sorry if I'm not giddy. At this point tho, I think this specific battle was good as the sooner we can finish this damned war, the sooner we can leave those people alone (at least I hope that's what will happen post-war).
 

IValueFreedom

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VTA said:
It says "link" because that's what it is. Clicking on it to finish the read would certainly unravel the mystery...:roll:

Nice try...

Not really.



As are a multitude of articles posted as absolutes; some chair jockey far away from the action, spouting off on something he's really not in a position to judge. Ironically the one that hints at any kind of optimism is met with... ire?

Really IVF, your quibbling over form instead of the function of the topic is a farce, devoid of any substance relevant to the actual subject.
I don't know what "ire" means. I'm guessing it's an abreviation for something, but until I'm updated with what it means, I will wait to comment.

As for quibbling, yeah, you're damned right things like this make me mad. Our administration feeds our domestic media loads of crap and when people like the individual whom wrote this article takes it and runs, then people like you, whom take hold of it, get me frustrated. It's nothing that you did. It's how the media giant of this counry works:\
 

VTA

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GarzaUK said:
I've heard this all before.
Evidently, its meaning is lost on you...
Without the elections paving the way for a written constitution, a 50,000-60,000 man army of Iraqi soldiers fighting with American soldiers would not have been possible. Each incidence was/is a turning point. If it's a turning point toward winning the war is yet to be seen, but a turning point is what it is none the less.
 

VTA

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IValueFreedom said:
I don't know what "ire" means. I'm guessing it's an abreviation for something, but until I'm updated with what it means, I will wait to comment.

As for quibbling, yeah, you're damned right things like this make me mad. Our administration feeds our domestic media loads of crap and when people like the individual whom wrote this article takes it and runs, then people like you, whom take hold of it, get me frustrated. It's nothing that you did. It's how the media giant of this counry works:\
I'll bet Ire, the word not the abbr, is in the dictionary.

Your quibbling tends more toward my form of contributing to the forum and not toward the subject within the post.

As for getting to the subject; if the administration is feeding the media, it sure wants us to think we're losing this war. The stories about car bombings and body counts far outweigh the stories of reconstruction and victory that's been accomplished in Iraq.

This story as an Op Ed piece - the authors opinion of the facts, i.e. an army of 50,000-60,000 Iraqi's working with the U.S., and the successful mission in Tal Afar, though less glamorous than the constant barrage of 'If it bleeds, it leads' type of journalism, is perfectly legit. Where's the propoganda?

Has it gone unnoticed that this story has been largely ignored by the media giant? Propoganda works both ways.
 

IValueFreedom

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it might take some time to gather some of the propoganda from the article, and I'm at work. So it might not be there til tonight, or even in a couple days.

Don't worry, I won't forget about it though :)
 

AK_Conservative

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VTA said:
It says "link" because that's what it is. Clicking on it to finish the read would certainly unravel the mystery...:roll:

Nice try...

Not really.



As are a multitude of articles posted as absolutes; some chair jockey far away from the action, spouting off on something he's really not in a position to judge. Ironically the one that hints at any kind of optimism is met with... ire?

Really IVF, your quibbling over form instead of the function of the topic is a farce, devoid of any substance relevant to the actual subject.


AHAHAHA i got to hand it to you VTA, that was hilarious! It says "link" because that's what it is. Clicking on it to finish the read would certainly unravel the mystery...:roll: LMAO
 

GarzaUK

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VTA said:
Evidently, its meaning is lost on you...
Without the elections paving the way for a written constitution, a 50,000-60,000 man army of Iraqi soldiers fighting with American soldiers would not have been possible. Each incidence was/is a turning point. If it's a turning point toward winning the war is yet to be seen, but a turning point is what it is none the less.
Are you then confident the constitution will pass?
 

VTA

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GarzaUK said:
Are you then confident the constitution will pass?
I have no way of knowing that, but I do know if it does, it's a turning point. A measure of progress.
 

shakenbake19

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IValueFreedom said:
it might take some time to gather some of the propoganda from the article, and I'm at work. So it might not be there til tonight, or even in a couple days.

Don't worry, I won't forget about it though :)
"Propaganda" to most people is what they don't agree with. VTA is right, we are making progress. People who try to point positive stuff out as "Propaganda" are typically people who watch the anti-war propaganda on CNN or The Daily Show or any of those liberal "News" channels. You are a negative person for trying to say positive things are wrong. Even if it is innaccurate, it is till negative.
 

FinnMacCool

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Omg. . .another idiot that thinks the Daily Show is an actual news channel. . .

Dude. . . that article is propaganda though.
 

VTA

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FinnMacCool said:
Omg. . .another idiot that thinks the Daily Show is an actual news channel. . .

Dude. . . that article is propaganda though.
No, it's an opinion given, as to what the circumstances of certain facts may mean.
There's a distinct difference.
 

shakenbake19

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The Daily Show isn't real news, but it takes real news and twists it into anti-conservative material. So it is news, just twisted into something funny (and undoubtfully liberal).
 
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