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A thread to discuss - philosophy - and not religion

Aunt Spiker

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Ikari made a comment and I thought it sounded like a good idea. . . and philosophical discussion about - philosophy. Why not? Might get a few drifted debates going stemming from this.

Are you interested in the subject of Philosophy in some way? What interests you - why?
 
Political philosophy is exceedingly interesting to me. Particularly the likes of Locke, Kant, Hobbes, etc.

There are also other philosophical devices to explore. Such as what are the philosophical derivatives of anarchy and can any of them be viable?

I'm really just getting sick of religion in the philosophy forum.
 
I have always found the forms to be an interesting argument. Do humans create idea or do these ideas exist outside of ourselves?
 
I have always found the forms to be an interesting argument. Do humans create idea or do these ideas exist outside of ourselves?

That is the prospect of the muse. Many artistic people will say that when they are at their most creative that they are not in the active role of producing but are actually a passenger just guiding the story along.

This goes in line with those that have theorized that the brain and genetics are not creators but rather are more like biological receivers... To receive what? Is generally unanswered, but it could be postulated that they are receiving the "soul".

This is not a "religious" perspective either, if the difference between a living body and a dead body is energy. Which makes sense, think about it, if the brain is gone, you could artificially pump blood, artificially breathe, and maintain all the bodily functions, but the person is no longer alive... Without getting into all the (mostly anecdotal) evidence for near-death experiences.

Then physics proves, with the law of conservation of energy, that this life energy has a perpetual existence, and can then occupy another body.

I'll quit this rant while I'm still somewhat ahead.
 
I like morally grey philosophical questions, for instance:

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around, does it make a sound?

Trolly Problem


ETC
ETC
 
Like religion, philosophy is unique to each individual.


Many artistic people will say that when they are at their most creative that they are not in the active role of producing but are actually a passenger just guiding the story along.

Yup. And they choose where to guide and when to step off the platform, so to speak. Individuality=philosophy
 
When it comes to philosophy I'm fascinated by the pioneering philosophers and what they use to take the time to ponder. I even have a book about it - "The Dream of Reason"

It's interesting to see how in the beginning of things what dominated and - oddly - it's the same stuff that dominates the philosophy discussions now: religion (God? Gods? Why?) and creation (How, who?) among other things that science has readily explained (what is alive? Are magnets - after all, they move.) . . . it's fascinating to learn about how knowledge less man learns.
 
I like a discussion over free-will vs destiny. I'm solidly in the free-will camp. If destiny is true, it completely eliminates any purpose in life, makes the concept of consciousness invalid, and many other things.
 
I like a discussion over free-will vs destiny. I'm solidly in the free-will camp. If destiny is true, it completely eliminates any purpose in life, makes the concept of consciousness invalid, and many other things.

I believe in some destiny - not in full strength. But "he was destined to be a great violinist" or something - yeah. . .Not enough to dictate every aspect of someone's life or so strong it can't be decided against by the individual.
 
So, why can't we have a theist board, a philosophy board, and a religious board?
 
I believe in some destiny - not in full strength. But "he was destined to be a great violinist" or something - yeah. . .Not enough to dictate every aspect of someone's life or so strong it can't be decided against by the individual.

I can accept something like that. I would call this a tendency. Certain types of people in certain types of circumstances have a tendency to experience a certain result.
 
I can accept something like that. I would call this a tendency. Certain types of people in certain types of circumstances have a tendency to experience a certain result.

Yeah - perhaps it is . . . maybe it's just prewired chemical makeup per the physical mind.
 
Yeah - perhaps it is . . . maybe it's just prewired chemical makeup per the physical mind.

That has an effect to be sure. It's also environment. You could have a person who is prewired for assertiveness, but as a child is punished severely whenever the behavior is expressed. The prewired behavior can be re-written by the environment. The exact opposite is also true. Assertiveness could be encouraged and refined. The fact that the human mind is a self-programming system throws all sorts of monkey wrenches into the concept of destiny.
 
Too true.

Frustrating thing: sometimes we just don't know no matter how much we try to figure it out. Which is why some philosophy related topics are still in constant debate.
 
I find philosophy very interesting, if it wasn't for the fact that I probably wouldn't be able to find a job I probably would switch my major to it right now. People like Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates are my idols, and they have been for many years now.
 
Ikari made a comment and I thought it sounded like a good idea. . . and philosophical discussion about - philosophy. Why not? Might get a few drifted debates going stemming from this.

Are you interested in the subject of Philosophy in some way? What interests you - why?

I've always loved researching philosophies of all types. For me, it's learning them as a system and how the mechanics within that system works together. That's the appeal that philosophy has for me.
 
I like a discussion over free-will vs destiny. I'm solidly in the free-will camp. If destiny is true, it completely eliminates any purpose in life, makes the concept of consciousness invalid, and many other things.

I believe in both... you're destiny is literally the destinations of your life, where your free-will is about which path you take to get there.
 
I'm really just getting sick of religion in the philosophy forum.

It's only there because they banned dissent in the religion forum.
 
I believe in both... you're destiny is literally the destinations of your life, where your free-will is about which path you take to get there.

I've considered this many times but am still undecided about it's efficacy. If you believe that our purpose here is to learn certain lessons, then this hybrid concept works pretty well. You would have certain preplanned experiential nodes (or tests) that you must pass through in order to learn the lesson. It's certainly an attractive idea.

I like the idea of wheels within wheels. Each wheel of causality contains a lesson that must be learned. Fail to learn the lesson and you remain on the wheel. Succeed, and you step off the wheel, but that only places you on a new wheel with a new lesson. So while we see ourselves getting older and meeting new people it may appear that our life is always changing, but in fact these changes are surface differences. When you see similar problems cropping up again and again, you are still on the same wheel. How and when you get off the wheel is entirely up to you. There is a structure to this existence, but how you move through it is decided by the individual's actions and understanding. You could say that the wheels are a certain destiny but the rate and means of reaching each destiny is decided via free will.
 
I pretty much despise philosophy.

It's the art of attempting to supplant authentic intelligence with only a cheap and flimsy facsimile of it. It satisfies two essential conditions for the would-be brainiac. 1) It utilises the most impenetrable terminology, in order to appear erudite, and 2) every opinion is equally valid. It's a double whammy that assures one's fragile ego will never be unsafe. It's absolutely impossible to be wrong. Philosophy is the final refuge of the intellectual weakling.

I could argue 'philosophically' that not only are murder and rape not wrong, but that anyone who refuses to commit such acts is a scumbag who deserves to die. I could argue that, and no one in the world could 'prove' me wrong. Because there is no 'proof'. Only 'opinion'. If courts of law enacted judicial restraint on the basis of philosophy, no crime could exist, and no criminal could be accountable. The capable philosopher knows well how to avoid consensus, and how to supplant the objective with relativism and opinion, in order that conclusion not be achieved.

What was once a necessary undertaking, has now become a pale weakling in the face of the empiricism that thankfully surpassed it. Questions had to be asked, and so philosophy was the sole recourse in a time before science. The Renaissance was that period where philosophy was finally ditched in favour of measurement and conclusion. Empiricism and universality. A collective pursuit of subjectivity could no longer suffice, and so it became untenable to proceed on the basis of comprehensive and ubiquitous relativism. People wanted answers, and all philosophy had was questions and opinions. The emerging science required baselines and reference points that philosophy cannot deliver.

To add insult to injury, philosophy is set on a pedestal as being the highest form of thinking, when the reverse is true. It's the most basic form of exploration. A child with learning difficulties can ask a question, and wonder about it. That doesn't make it supreme, or somehow impressive. Philosophy's a joke. And the awe it seemingly inspires, is belied by it's complete and utter inability to achieve anything at all. Ever. If I make any concession here, it's that any undertaking or research must be preceded by a question to begin with. After that, philosophy is useless. Interesting, and even fascinating. But useless. No more impressive than any other leisurely pursuit. No more impressive, or worthy of celebrity than swimming, gardening, knitting or watching a movie. It's a hobby, not a study.

Which is why it had to evolve into science. Philosophy is more accurately perceived as an obsolescent forerunner to something finer, and far more impressive/worthy.
 
Hey everybody! Look at me!

I'm a 'philosopher'!

I ask loads and loads of questions, but I don't have any answers whatsoever!

I'm so cool!
 
I'm a 'philosopher'!

I make the most simple 'questions' look all complex and clever, by mastering the dictionary, and selecting only those words that are the least used.

Hellz yeaeaaah! I'm part of an elite group that fools everyone into thinking I'm all intelligent and stuff!

Hold me aloft! Revere me! For I am elite!

Never mind that I'm actually as thick as pigs***, and can't actually answer anything. The point is, I 'look clever', even though I'm not!
 
Philofluffy.

I'm a philofluffer.

lulz
 
I pretty much despise philosophy.

It's the art of attempting to supplant authentic intelligence with only a cheap and flimsy facsimile of it. It satisfies two essential conditions for the would-be brainiac. 1) It utilises the most impenetrable terminology, in order to appear erudite, and 2) every opinion is equally valid. It's a double whammy that assures one's fragile ego will never be unsafe. It's absolutely impossible to be wrong. Philosophy is the final refuge of the intellectual weakling.

I could argue 'philosophically' that not only are murder and rape not wrong, but that anyone who refuses to commit such acts is a scumbag who deserves to die. I could argue that, and no one in the world could 'prove' me wrong. Because there is no 'proof'. Only 'opinion'. If courts of law enacted judicial restraint on the basis of philosophy, no crime could exist, and no criminal could be accountable. The capable philosopher knows well how to avoid consensus, and how to supplant the objective with relativism and opinion, in order that conclusion not be achieved.

What was once a necessary undertaking, has now become a pale weakling in the face of the empiricism that thankfully surpassed it. Questions had to be asked, and so philosophy was the sole recourse in a time before science. The Renaissance was that period where philosophy was finally ditched in favour of measurement and conclusion. Empiricism and universality. A collective pursuit of subjectivity could no longer suffice, and so it became untenable to proceed on the basis of comprehensive and ubiquitous relativism. People wanted answers, and all philosophy had was questions and opinions. The emerging science required baselines and reference points that philosophy cannot deliver.

To add insult to injury, philosophy is set on a pedestal as being the highest form of thinking, when the reverse is true. It's the most basic form of exploration. A child with learning difficulties can ask a question, and wonder about it. That doesn't make it supreme, or somehow impressive. Philosophy's a joke. And the awe it seemingly inspires, is belied by it's complete and utter inability to achieve anything at all. Ever. If I make any concession here, it's that any undertaking or research must be preceded by a question to begin with. After that, philosophy is useless. Interesting, and even fascinating. But useless. No more impressive than any other leisurely pursuit. No more impressive, or worthy of celebrity than swimming, gardening, knitting or watching a movie. It's a hobby, not a study.

Which is why it had to evolve into science. Philosophy is more accurately perceived as an obsolescent forerunner to something finer, and far more impressive/worthy.

And there goes all reasonable debate.
 
I pretty much despise philosophy.

It's the art of attempting to supplant authentic intelligence with only a cheap and flimsy facsimile of it. It satisfies two essential conditions for the would-be brainiac. 1) It utilises the most impenetrable terminology, in order to appear erudite, and 2) every opinion is equally valid. It's a double whammy that assures one's fragile ego will never be unsafe. It's absolutely impossible to be wrong. Philosophy is the final refuge of the intellectual weakling.

I could argue 'philosophically' that not only are murder and rape not wrong, but that anyone who refuses to commit such acts is a scumbag who deserves to die. I could argue that, and no one in the world could 'prove' me wrong. Because there is no 'proof'. Only 'opinion'. If courts of law enacted judicial restraint on the basis of philosophy, no crime could exist, and no criminal could be accountable. The capable philosopher knows well how to avoid consensus, and how to supplant the objective with relativism and opinion, in order that conclusion not be achieved.

What was once a necessary undertaking, has now become a pale weakling in the face of the empiricism that thankfully surpassed it. Questions had to be asked, and so philosophy was the sole recourse in a time before science. The Renaissance was that period where philosophy was finally ditched in favour of measurement and conclusion. Empiricism and universality. A collective pursuit of subjectivity could no longer suffice, and so it became untenable to proceed on the basis of comprehensive and ubiquitous relativism. People wanted answers, and all philosophy had was questions and opinions. The emerging science required baselines and reference points that philosophy cannot deliver.

To add insult to injury, philosophy is set on a pedestal as being the highest form of thinking, when the reverse is true. It's the most basic form of exploration. A child with learning difficulties can ask a question, and wonder about it. That doesn't make it supreme, or somehow impressive. Philosophy's a joke. And the awe it seemingly inspires, is belied by it's complete and utter inability to achieve anything at all. Ever. If I make any concession here, it's that any undertaking or research must be preceded by a question to begin with. After that, philosophy is useless. Interesting, and even fascinating. But useless. No more impressive than any other leisurely pursuit. No more impressive, or worthy of celebrity than swimming, gardening, knitting or watching a movie. It's a hobby, not a study.

Which is why it had to evolve into science. Philosophy is more accurately perceived as an obsolescent forerunner to something finer, and far more impressive/worthy.

Does someone need a hug? :roll:
 
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