A theory on the taboo's of religion. [W:206]

[RamFel]

In some jurisdictions that is true, in others it means only anal sex, and still in others it means only forced anal sex. In some states it only applies to male on male anal sex in prison, and in those states it is differentiated from oral copulation or forced oral copulation.

So when you say "legally speaking" you must indicate which jurisdictions. Laws are not that vague. In this country vague laws are not enforceable.



Really cruelty? Hmmm.... so Sodom was destroyed (biblically speaking) for "cruelty" but Rome got a pass?????

Sorry, but the reason I don't make these arguments from what is "biblical" is because there can be as many interpretations on that as there are stars in the skies. Which is why your logic can be defeated 'naturally' ---- that which nature demonstrates.

I find it ironic that the gay rights folks even venture into biblical arguments because the bible does not make your case on any front. If "gay love" was a positive and normal occurrence, there would be examples of that in the bible. Why would the text leave that part out with all that is said in the bible? So to use your argument (biblically) it is your claim that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because they were inhospitable to strangers? Wow! What kind of angry God is that?

Any reading of Romans 1 should answer your questions..... that is if you are making "biblically speaking" arguments.

I agree. The Bible doesnn't support sodomy or homosexuality. But God has killed people in the OT (for getting too close to the tabernacle. That was a no-no if you were unauthorized). But He has that right.

 

[CLAX1911]

I didn't say it was "necessary," only that if able to let go, far more would do so. Considering all the pain and discrimination, it's the logical result.

Did you ever think that people choose to be religious? The major problem with Christianity is Christians, not it's core value system.

I just don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

[RamFel]

You never tackled me ram.

You failed to prove your claim. It isn't me being obstinate on my part, it's failure on yours. Nice of you to pass the buck though.

See what I mean?

 

[CLAX1911]

See what I mean?

No. I do not. What do you mean?

 

[L0neW0lf]

That isn't true. I attend a church that is almost 65% made up of gay and lesbian parishioners.

That's just sad.

 

[CLAX1911]

That's just sad.

Why?

I think it's sad that you seek to pigeon hole people.

 

[grip]

I was thinking about this the other day when deciding what to make for dinner. Bare with me here, I was explaining to my son how Pork is banned in some countries for religious reasons. He asked why and I explained the basic outlines of the "dirty animals" and "God/Allah" said don't eat them. Reality is that improperly prepared foods can make you ill. Pork among many meats can make you quite ill, and to ancient man seeing someone suffering from the ravages of various pork borne bugs could be seen as the wrath of God.

Common sense as a religious edict as it were.

Now, before someone get's all out of wack, I'm not comparing homosexuality to a food borne illness. However, just like straight people who sleep around is frowned upon and thus the monogamous is better mantra of say Christianity...

What I'm getting at is, men like to have sex, let men have sex with who ever will get their rocks off and well... you're going to see a higher number of STD's. This brings us back to the pork ban. A dash of common sense and religious power thus you have an activity outlawed. A majority of people generally don't have homosexual urges, the thought of two men together is just not sexy to them or appealing in the least, unfathomable even. So from that starting point, is it possible that the lines in the Bible and other religions have such an origin?

I think that is more truthful then a wrathful God that's gonna hate you for who you sleep with. That's not to say "hey you're gay go forth and ****!" Let's be honest, sleeping around whether you're gay, straight or otherwise can be bad for your health. HOW you lead your life, matter I think far more then who you choose to sleep with or how.

Why I'm leaving lesbians out of this is A: Western culture has always objectified beauty thus two beautiful women together isn't as taboo and women tend to not spread STD's among each nearly as easily as men tend to.

But the path to perfection is thru turmoil and pain. So, these perceived slights, are actually testaments to our own direction and uniqueness. They are what make us special, not spoiled.

 

[Koros]

I agree. The Bible doesnn't support sodomy or homosexuality. But God has killed people in the OT (for getting too close to the tabernacle. That was a no-no if you were unauthorized). But He has that right.

Well, in the OT your god also bans clothing of more than one type of material or living with a woman who is on her period. But, I highly doubt you boycott Fruit of the Loom or banish your wife to the shed once a month.

As Clax said, the problem with Christianity is Christians. They're nothing but self-righteous hypocrites.

 

[RamFel]

Well, in the OT your god also bans clothing of more than one type of material or living with a woman who is on her period. But, I highly doubt you boycott Fruit of the Loom or banish your wife to the shed once a month.

As Clax said, the problem with Christianity is Christians. They're nothing but self-righteous hypocrites.

The problem is not that Christians are hypocrites. That befalls everyone at one time or another. Everybody wears the hypocrite hat. The Bible even tells Christians that. The real problem is everybody who is a hypocrite. What ever their religion or lack of it. Even I am a hypocrite! Yes ME!!!

That's why I am a Christian. So I can NOT be a hypocrite.

 

[chromium]

Did you ever think that people choose to be religious?

I think it's all cultural influences. Reading a book on the founding of Australia now. For thousands of years it was nothing but nomadic tribalism. Belief systems are pretty much what we're born into. Convincing yourself otherwise is only part of the not letting go in my view.

The major problem with Christianity is Christians, not it's core value system.

Patterns and questions start to emerge, such as "Why if this has nothing to do with its core value system does *every* colonial effort entail forcing the natives to embrace Christianity or die resisting?" "Why if nothing to do with core values did *every* state and country until only recently outlaw gay relationships?" "Why is practically every Christian in the south a ****ing bully to gays (and every other minority)?"

Now, what should we do to stand up for ourselves?

But whatever makes you happy

 

[CLAX1911]

Well, in the OT your god also bans clothing of more than one type of material or living with a woman who is on her period. But, I highly doubt you boycott Fruit of the Loom or banish your wife to the shed once a month.

As Clax said, the problem with Christianity is Christians. They're nothing but self-righteous hypocrites.

Yeah it's infuriating when people cherry pick things out of the bible. That behavior mocks Christianity

 

[Koros]

The problem is not that Christians are hypocrites. That befalls everyone at one time or another. Everybody wears the hypocrite hat. The Bible even tells Christians that. The real problem is everybody who is a hypocrite. What ever their religion or lack of it. Even I am a hypocrite! Yes ME!!!

That's why I am a Christian. So I can NOT be a hypocrite.

Well, since you quote Leviticus in your signature, let's start with you following ALL of the tenets of Leviticus. Once you do that, maybe you'll have an ounce of moral standing.

Though, I do have to give you credit for at least admitting your blatant hypocrisy.

 

[CLAX1911]

I think it's all cultural influences. Reading a book on the founding of Australia now. For thousands of years it was nothing but nomadic tribalism. Belief systems are pretty much what we're born into. Convincing yourself otherwise is only part of the not letting go in my view.

So you think it's programming?

Patterns and questions start to emerge, such as "Why if this has nothing to do with its core value system does *every* colonial effort entail forcing the natives to embrace Christianity or die resisting?"

That is how you conquer natives, if the colonial effort was atheist it would have been something else. I am not saying that religion isn't used as a weapon, it often is.

"Why if nothing to do with core values did *every* state and country until only recently outlaw gay relationships?"

Homosexuality wasn't understood.

"Why is practically every Christian in the south a ****ing bully to gays (and every other minority)?"

They don't, I live in the south. In my city alone there are 170+ gay affirming churches. Why do you pigeonhole people? To my knowledge only a handful of Christian denominations are holding out.

You hate it when people pigeon hole you, and make sweeping statements about gay people, why do you do it to me?

Now, what should we do to stand up for ourselves?

I am, at this point I am standing up for myself, and my husband against you. Why does my belief in God equal not standing up for myself?

I hate to say it chromium because I really like you. But you are guilty of what you accuse others of doing to you. You are discriminating against me over my sexuality.

 

[CLAX1911]

The problem [with Christianity] is not that Christians are hypocrites.

Yes it most certainly is the problem with Christianity. If you are not Christ like you are a hypocrite if you call yourself Christian by definition. The fact that we don't all act as Christ makes us hypocrites.

That befalls everyone at one time or another. Everybody wears the hypocrite hat.

People who aren't Christian aren't the problem with Christianity. This is specifically about Christianity nothing else.

The Bible even tells Christians that. The real problem is everybody who is a hypocrite. What ever their religion or lack of it. Even I am a hypocrite! Yes ME!!!

Everybody who is a hypocrite... What? Your sentence is incomplete.

Buddhists that are hypocrites aren't the problem with Christianity, atheists that are hypocrites aren't the problem with Christianity. Only Christians. And we all are.

That's why I am a Christian. So I can NOT be a hypocrite.

But you are, you do not live like Jesus. You are a hypocrite. You do not follow him yet you say you do.

 

[RamFel]

Yes it most certainly is the problem with Christianity. If you are not Christ like you are a hypocrite if you call yourself Christian by definition. The fact that we don't all act as Christ makes us hypocrites.

People who aren't Christian aren't the problem with Christianity. This is specifically about Christianity nothing else.

Everybody who is a hypocrite... What? Your sentence is incomplete.

Buddhists that are hypocrites aren't the problem with Christianity, atheists that are hypocrites aren't the problem with Christianity. Only Christians. And we all are.

But you are, you do not live like Jesus. You are a hypocrite. You do not follow him yet you say you do.

So you, with the plank in your eye, is going to tell me about the sliver in mine? Way to step into it CLAX !!! That’s REALLY funny….I know I am not supposed to judge and I may have judged you and that’s my sin. At least I am being realistic while you are trying to run from it.

You are the last person around here who can point fingers.

and by the way, I looked at that sentence again, and it looks fine.

 

[CLAX1911]

So you, with the plank in your eye, is going to tell me about the sliver in mine? Way to step into it CLAX !!!

I never claimed not to be a hypocrite. You did. So you are the one that doesn't see the plank in your eye.

That’s REALLY funny….I know I am not supposed to judge and I may have judged you and that’s my sin. At least I am being realistic while you are trying to run from it.

Work on your reading comprehension. I said WE are all hypocrites. YOU claimed not to be this saying you are Christ like. You aren't being realistic you are being a demigod.

You are the last person around here who can point fingers.

What makes you any better? The fact that you pretend you are more justified in your sins?

I didn't point any fingers. I was talking about Christianity as a whole that includes myself.

and by the way, I looked at that sentence again, and it looks fine.

It doesn't make any sense. Your reading comprehension sucks. There is no verb

"The real problem is everybody who is a hypocrite." You could drop the word "who" but with it there, the sentence makes no sense.

"The real problem is everybody is a hypocrite." That sentence makes sense and I now believe that is what you meant. It just hit the ear wrong.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Yeah it's infuriating when people cherry pick things out of the bible. That behavior mocks Christianity

About the same as efforts by such as yourself to deny that the Bible says what it clearly says about certain forms of immorality.

 

[CLAX1911]

About the same as efforts by such as yourself to deny that the Bible says what it clearly says about certain forms of immorality.

By cherry picking what you like out of the bible you are doing the exact same thing.

Your kind of hypocrisy makes our religion a joke.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

By cherry picking what you like out of the bible you are doing the exact same thing.

I'm not cherry-picking anything. The Bible is absolutely clear about homosexuality, along with other forms of immorality.

Your kind of hypocrisy makes our religion a joke.

There is no “our” religion. Yours is a watered-down imposter that selectively rejects those clear principles that it doesn't want to uphold.

 

[Gathomas88]

I was thinking about this the other day when deciding what to make for dinner. Bare with me here, I was explaining to my son how Pork is banned in some countries for religious reasons. He asked why and I explained the basic outlines of the "dirty animals" and "God/Allah" said don't eat them. Reality is that improperly prepared foods can make you ill. Pork among many meats can make you quite ill, and to ancient man seeing someone suffering from the ravages of various pork borne bugs could be seen as the wrath of God.

Common sense as a religious edict as it were.

Now, before someone get's all out of wack, I'm not comparing homosexuality to a food borne illness. However, just like straight people who sleep around is frowned upon and thus the monogamous is better mantra of say Christianity...

What I'm getting at is, men like to have sex, let men have sex with who ever will get their rocks off and well... you're going to see a higher number of STD's. This brings us back to the pork ban. A dash of common sense and religious power thus you have an activity outlawed. A majority of people generally don't have homosexual urges, the thought of two men together is just not sexy to them or appealing in the least, unfathomable even. So from that starting point, is it possible that the lines in the Bible and other religions have such an origin?

I think that is more truthful then a wrathful God that's gonna hate you for who you sleep with. That's not to say "hey you're gay go forth and ****!" Let's be honest, sleeping around whether you're gay, straight or otherwise can be bad for your health. HOW you lead your life, matter I think far more then who you choose to sleep with or how.

Why I'm leaving lesbians out of this is A: Western culture has always objectified beauty thus two beautiful women together isn't as taboo and women tend to not spread STD's among each nearly as easily as men tend to.

This is essentially my view on the link between religion and sexuality in general. It really doesn't tell you anything that shouldn't already be common sense in the first place.

Sleeping around is dangerous to one's health, and generally more trouble than it is worth. You should avoid it as such.

Sex without commitment results in pregnancy without commitment, generally leaving the women and children it affects desperate and destitute. Marriage is necessary to minimize bad outcomes.

Infidelity results in jealousy and needless (often times violent) conflict. Avoid it.

Etca, etca...

Sadly, as our modern "liberated" society demonstrates far too often, "common sense" really isn't as common as it should be. For that reason, these basic principles were codified into shared law so that every idiot could easily follow them, regardless of whether they happened to understand the reasoning at play behind it or not.

 

[CLAX1911]

I'm not cherry-picking anything.

Yes you are

The Bible is absolutely clear about homosexuality, along with other forms of immorality.

It's clear that existing is immoral. You cherry picked this one thing out.

There is no “our” religion. Yours is a watered-down imposter that selectively rejects those clear principles that it doesn't want to uphold.

So you worship Allah or something other than Christ? Fair enough.

I am Christian. So no offence of you aren't.

 

[RamFel]

See what I mean?

I was talking to the guy that asked what world you were living in, because you made me right by sticking to your dream of being homosexual, engaging in gay sex, and being holy and righteous at the same time.

So to him I say, "See what I mean"?

 

[CLAX1911]

I was talking to the guy that asked what world you were living in, because you made me right by sticking to your dream of being homosexual, engaging in gay sex, and being holy and righteous at the same time.

You were talking to everybody you posted publicly for all to read. If you were talking to just one person you would have pmed him. I stick nothing nowhere. You spoke publicly so you were challenged publicly.

So to him I say, "See what I mean"?

You say to that to everybody.

 

[Northern Light]

I see no point in trying to extract logic from a document that is inherently irrational. Many of the edicts in the Bible were no doubt inspired by "channelers" who had visions from "god" or who knows what else and because they had some modicum of authority, turned them into edicts for others to obey. Some of the edicts were based on rationally observed health reasons, while others are clearly based in ideology in order to directly usurp power from some other societal status quo that is making people avoid Christianity.

These same kinds of "channelers" exist today and we often dismiss them outright as hacks who either have vivid imaginations or who perhaps are in touch with something but it cannot be verified as a being aligned with Divinity.

What matters most to me is that Jesus explicitly talked about Churches and middle men being the place where Satan resided and the only Church that matters is the one inside of yourself which is the direct line to God. Anyone claiming to be that hotline for you is an idolater and should be treated as someone working for anyone but God. Anyone who tells you that you MUST do X Y or Z or you are not in touch with God and will suffer punishment is, by definition, an idolater. No one can be the face of God but God. Jesus specifically instructed us to avoid such people as they will lead you down the path to separation and damnation.

It's for this reason that I could give two ****s less about Leviticus at this point. If Jesus didn't say it then I couldn't care less, because as far as I can tell these are all middle men riding on Jesus' good name in order to insert their insane-o commandments where they have no place in order to control the minds of people for their own bidding. They were evil, evil people. And many of them were edicts fashioned to directly challenge the status quo of Roman polytheism and pagan practices, i.e. homosexuality, pederasty, worshiping of the divine feminine, the ceremonies which follow the natural changes in the earth (like beltane, the equinoxes and solstices, etc.)

It's pure politics or idolatry disguised as divinely inspired visions.

 

[Paleocon]

Sodomy in a biblical sense has nothing to do with homosexuality.

Uh huh.