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A tax credit for a product means no one wants to buy it

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obvious Child

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Rush Limbaugh said this recently:

“However, you can get it for less — there's a $7,500 tax credit,” Limbaugh said with a sardonic tone on his Wednesday program. “Which means that Obama and the government are admitting that nobody wants this. Nobody wants it. We gotta give you a $7,500 discount. Why don't you try this, Mr. Obama, and the rest of you at Obama Motors: Just put it out there at 41 grand and let the market decide.”

Let's ignore for the time being that the Tesla Roadster and the Fisker Karma both eligible for the credit have large backlogs are eligible for the credit.

Do you agree that when the government offers a tax credit for a product, that means no one wants to buy it?
 

Zyphlin

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Nope, as typical from Rush its hyperbole built upon a more reasonable basic notion.

That notion being that Hybrids/Electrics by themselves probably cost too much for them to be widely accepted within the population as an actual option. The cost/benefits relationship that individual citizens do when choosing a car comes out poorly at the base price for a Hybrid compared to how worth while it's benefits are to have one. The Tax Credit reduces the cost somewhat significantly, bringing it at least closer to a regular version of a car and thus increasing the cost/worth ration for individuals leading them to be more likely to buy it as the "benefits" suddenly are worth the cost.

So to say "nobody wants it" is hyperbole. The more accurate thing would probably say is that "Shows many people don't find it worth the cost". A legitimate argument could be made on that one.

Pointing at the Teslar or the Fisker and their production numbers wouldn't really disprove that point. Both are not running exactly large production numbers when compared to standard production numbers for traditional cars. Additionally, both are in the $80-100k range to my understanding which in and of itself prices it out of the point where its something that the majority of the public is considering as their car.
 

Goobieman

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So to say "nobody wants it" is hyperbole. The more accurate thing would probably say is that "Shows many people don't find it worth the cost". A legitimate argument could be made on that one.
Nobody wants it... at that price. That's pretty common.
 

phattonez

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Tax credit: not enough demand by some arbitrary standard.
Sin tax: too much demand by some arbitrary standard.
 

Goobieman

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Rush IS partisan bigotry.
Partisan, yes.
A bigot? You'll have to do something other than just make the claim for that to stick.

HOWever... claiming that Rush is always wrong simply because you dont agree with him politically?
That is -clear- partisan bigotry.
 

The Uncola

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Partisan, yes.
A bigot? You'll have to do something other than just make the claim for that to stick.

HOWever... claiming that Rush is always wrong simply because you dont agree with him politically?
That is -clear- partisan bigotry.
Bigotry? Nope. Hyperbole? Absolutely. I don't hate all big, fat, loudmouthed know-it-all, angry, old white guys. That would be bigotry.
 

Goobieman

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His picture is next to the words in the dictionary. Shot with with a VERY wide-angle lens, of course.
Partisan, yes.
A bigot? You'll have to do something other than just make the claim for that to stick.
 

fredmertz

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I think it's obvious that he was speaking in extremes. I never listen to him, but I hope he wasn't being literal and so I won't take this as literal. I will take his point: that if tax credits are necessary, the free market does not have enough interest in the product to support it at current costs. So I vote he is 'right' by intent, not by literal interpretation.
 

Goobieman

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I think it's obvious that he was speaking in extremes. I never listen to him, but I hope he wasn't being literal and so I won't take this as literal. I will take his point: that if tax credits are necessary, the free market does not have enough interest in the product to support it at current costs. So I vote he is 'right' by intent, not by literal interpretation.
This is absolutely correct.
 

earthworm

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Nope, as typical from Rush its hyperbole built upon a more reasonable basic notion.

That notion being that Hybrids/Electrics by themselves probably cost too much for them to be widely accepted within the population as an actual option. The cost/benefits relationship that individual citizens do when choosing a car comes out poorly at the base price for a Hybrid compared to how worth while it's benefits are to have one. The Tax Credit reduces the cost somewhat significantly, bringing it at least closer to a regular version of a car and thus increasing the cost/worth ration for individuals leading them to be more likely to buy it as the "benefits" suddenly are worth the cost.

So to say "nobody wants it" is hyperbole. The more accurate thing would probably say is that "Shows many people don't find it worth the cost". A legitimate argument could be made on that one.

Pointing at the Teslar or the Fisker and their production numbers wouldn't really disprove that point. Both are not running exactly large production numbers when compared to standard production numbers for traditional cars. Additionally, both are in the $80-100k range to my understanding which in and of itself prices it out of the point where its something that the majority of the public is considering as their car.
Rush Limbaugh and his followers do not have the ability to think and reason even at this level.
As far as motor vehicles go, we should try to catch up with Europe and re-introduce Diesel passenger cars. We could tell the environmentalists where to get off..They seem to be against the Diesel as it MAY pollute more than gasoline.
 

Phoenix

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I think that Rush left out an important caveat (?implied maybe?). It means no one wants it at the true market price. These cars are less convenient, unproven, and maintenance could prove to be more expensive. Why would a person want to pay MORE for one of these over their lower prices fossil fueled powered equivalent?
 

Barbbtx

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I think a better question would be...Is it right for the government to offer tax credits for a product?
 

Goof Noodle

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A tax credit for a vehicle is nothing more then the government saying thanks for being a smug douche


Sorry, somebody had to say it
 

Hicup

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Even with the tax credit, as cars go, this is a bad buy for an ROI consumer..

Tim-
 

obvious Child

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Nobody wants it... at that price. That's pretty common.
So I guess going from $109,000 to $101,500 makes all of the difference eh?

$109k is the Tesla roadster before tax credits. You really think your argument is going to hold up and support Rush's logic?
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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The $7,500 tax credit is just one more way the incompetent fascists in the Messiah's Administration are stealing money from people who do not want a Government Motors car to support the unionistas who can't find anything productive to do if they weren't mooching off the taxpayers.

Naturally Rush is right.
 

obvious Child

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So to say "nobody wants it" is hyperbole. The more accurate thing would probably say is that "Shows many people don't find it worth the cost". A legitimate argument could be made on that one.

Pointing at the Teslar or the Fisker and their production numbers wouldn't really disprove that point.
On the aspect of price to value, you're correct. However, on the basis of Rush's asinine argument that tax credit = no one wants it period, both prove very pointed examples of Rush being full of crap.

Both are not running exactly large production numbers when compared to standard production numbers for traditional cars.
Not at the current moment no, but Fiskar is scaling up to 15,000 for its Karma and I believe the roadster is going well beyond that as well.

Additionally, both are in the $80-100k range to my understanding which in and of itself prices it out of the point where its something that the majority of the public is considering as their car.
Which further proves that the credit is rather irrelevant to people wanting the cars.
 

Barbbtx

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So I guess going from $109,000 to $101,500 makes all of the difference eh?

$109k is the Tesla roadster before tax credits. You really think your argument is going to hold up and support Rush's logic?
I don't know why any tax credit for a product would be a good thing. The government doesn't have it's own money. That is tax payer money to begin with. Let the free market work and stop trying to pick winners and losers. That's not the job of the government.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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On the aspect of price to value, you're correct. However, on the basis of Rush's asinine argument that tax credit = no one wants it period, both prove very pointed examples of Rush being full of crap.
Explain why anyone should have to pay higher taxes to reduce the price of a product others wouldn't buy if the tax credit didn't exist.
 
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