A Nation of Simpletons

[NWRatCon]

In my lifetime I have had 3 "careers" and at least 24 jobs, ranging from janitor, cook and bottlewasher (literally) to Executive Officer and Assistant Attorney General. I consider myself intellectual, as I like to think about all kinds of things, including what I think and do, but, notwithstanding some posts to the contrary, not arrogant. But... I have noticed, even in myself, a creeping pattern of discourse that is both crude and dismissive. It's not just here on this forum, it is in our newspapers and magazines, on our televisions, and in our daily lives. Conversations are boiled down to "tweets" and text messages (email is so passe), or, if particularly loquacious, a brief exchange while waiting for our lattes at Starbucks. People don't interact with each other as fully as they did even a few decades ago. They get their information and form beliefs from headlines, not the articles.

I've noticed it particularly on weighty topics like climate change, global economics or the Mueller report. In lieu of in-depth study or reading, we post and respond with pithy points based upon cursory knowledge or beliefs. Again, it is not just on discussion forums like this. It seems to be everywhere. We have become a nation of simpletons. Complex thoughts and understanding are becoming rarer and rarer. Part of it is the deteriorization (that's deliberate, not a typo) of our education system, and the divisions between the haves and have nots - but it infests every strata of society. The apotheosis, in my view, is Donald Trump in the White House, the apex simpleton, and a cabinet full of singularly unqualified appointees. But again, it is not a political thing. We, as a society, have attention deficit in the worst way. We can't hold onto a line of thought to the end of a sentence, much less a paragraph, and even less a 448 page report. Our understanding of a topic has to be reduced to a bumper sticker, 288 characters, or a single double-spaced page with bullet points. In that environment bad actors get away with murder, and much worse.

I haven't determined whether our political divide is a symptom of this or merely an accelerant of the trend. Our beliefs are becoming binary: With me, agin' me; fascist or socialist; crackpot or nutjob. But there are big, complicated issues that we have to address both individually and as a nation - security (social, national and personal), environmental degradation, national and international economics, social justice - and soon we are going to be faced with even more, like a worldwide water shortage, dwindling fuel supplies, loss of natural resources and population growth. These are issues that are not amenable to bumper-sticker sized solutions or pithy programs. We need to emerge from our simpleton stupor, but the question is, how?

 

[ecofarm]

There's nothing wrong with being curt and nasty to stupid comments. I know the issue. I know the nuance. Some uninformed uneducated backwoods jackass ain't gonna teach me anything. The only good that can come of such a person's dumbass pathetic cry for attention is me making fun of it.

 

[NWRatCon]

There's nothing wrong with being curt and nasty to stupid comments. I know the issue. I know the nuance. Some uninformed uneducated backwoods jackass ain't gonna teach me anything. The only good that can come of such a person's dumbass pathetic cry for attention is me making fun of it.

Sometimes I can't resist temptation either, but I don't like myself afterward. I try not to feed the trolls.

 

[ecofarm]

Sometimes I can't resist temptation either, but I don't like myself afterward. I try not to feed the trolls.

This place is entertainment. Stupid people should be made fun of.

 

[MrWonka]

but the question is, how?

I think step one has to be a restructuring of our election laws, and by "our" I mean the United States. I believe so much of what we're seeing is really a product of the adversarial system. Ranked choice voting has been used around the world with great success and I believe it will drive our political discourse more towards a cooperative approach rather than a combative approach because being the most hated candidate is a death sentence.

Liberals and intellectuals want nuance and discussion that is a good thing, and they are more willing to embrace subtlety. While the overall difference between for example Bernie and Hillary may not have actually been that different the differences were important enough that many were willing to protest their dissatisfaction with Hillary's nomination by voting third party or not voting at all thus giving us the worst possible candidate in Trump. This combative system forces us into this binary choice where subtlety is punished and nuance are punished instead of embraced. The details don't matter because the headlines are so stark that you can't afford to worry about the details. Furthermore, both sides are motivated by this reality to convince you that the world is going to end if your side doesn't win, and sadly over time we've found ourselves in a situation where that might actually be true because as Democrats embrace reason and science Republicans have no choice, but to contrast themselves by moving further and further away from it.

Of course the fear with this system is that it may actually be possible for our politicians to get TOO much done, but even if mistakes get made it will be easier to undo those mistakes as well. Ultimately the discussion will become more detailed and nuanced when we make nuance capable of changing votes again.

 

[AlphaOmega]

In my lifetime I have had 3 "careers" and at least 24 jobs, ranging from janitor, cook and bottlewasher (literally) to Executive Officer and Assistant Attorney General. I consider myself intellectual, as I like to think about all kinds of things, including what I think and do, but, notwithstanding some posts to the contrary, not arrogant. But... I have noticed, even in myself, a creeping pattern of discourse that is both crude and dismissive. It's not just here on this forum, it is in our newspapers and magazines, on our televisions, and in our daily lives. Conversations are boiled down to "tweets" and text messages (email is so passe), or, if particularly loquacious, a brief exchange while waiting for our lattes at Starbucks. People don't interact with each other as fully as they did even a few decades ago. They get their information and form beliefs from headlines, not the articles.

I've noticed it particularly on weighty topics like climate change, global economics or the Mueller report. In lieu of in-depth study or reading, we post and respond with pithy points based upon cursory knowledge or beliefs. Again, it is not just on discussion forums like this. It seems to be everywhere. We have become a nation of simpletons. Complex thoughts and understanding are becoming rarer and rarer. Part of it is the deteriorization (that's deliberate, not a typo) of our education system, and the divisions between the haves and have nots - but it infests every strata of society. The apotheosis, in my view, is Donald Trump in the White House, the apex simpleton, and a cabinet full of singularly unqualified appointees. But again, it is not a political thing. We, as a society, have attention deficit in the worst way. We can't hold onto a line of thought to the end of a sentence, much less a paragraph, and even less a 448 page report. Our understanding of a topic has to be reduced to a bumper sticker, 288 characters, or a single double-spaced page with bullet points. In that environment bad actors get away with murder, and much worse.

I haven't determined whether our political divide is a symptom of this or merely an accelerant of the trend. Our beliefs are becoming binary: With me, agin' me; fascist or socialist; crackpot or nutjob. But there are big, complicated issues that we have to address both individually and as a nation - security (social, national and personal), environmental degradation, national and international economics, social justice - and soon we are going to be faced with even more, like a worldwide water shortage, dwindling fuel supplies, loss of natural resources and population growth. These are issues that are not amenable to bumper-sticker sized solutions or pithy programs. We need to emerge from our simpleton stupor, but the question is, how?

I wonder why the simpleton is President and the cerbral types like yourself are TDSing anonymoysly on the internet. Why do you think that is?

 

[Vidi]

At some point, we accepted the idea that everyone was entitled to their own opinion.

While this was a fine ideal, we took that further and decided that every opinion deserved a place at the table. Every voice should be heard.

Today we have a growing flat earth movement, and an anti vaccination movement. We have learned to distrust science and intellect. We crowd source facts through Wikipedia and the echo chambers we place ourselves in push us to radical exert most views.

We have become the Idiocracy.

 

[Vidi]

I wonder why the simpleton is President and the cerbral types like yourself are TDSing anonymoysly on the internet. Why do you think that is?

Because someone loves the poorly educated and the poorly educated vote.

 

[ecofarm]

At some point, we accepted the idea that everyone was entitled to their own opinion.

While this was a fine ideal, we took that further and decided that every opinion deserved a place at the table. Every voice should be heard.

Today we have a growing flat earth movement, and an anti vaccination movement. We have learned to distrust science and intellect. We crowd source facts through Wikipedia and the echo chambers we place ourselves in push us to radical exert most views.

We have become the Idiocracy.

We might experience the first generation of bumpkins that do not want to send their kids to school for better lives.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Because someone loves the poorly educated and the poorly educated vote.

So the poorly educated outsmarted the cerebral types? Seems to me the highly educated should have known about this before the election and done something about it eh?

 

[Vidi]

So the poorly educated outsmarted the cetebral types? Seems to me the highly educated should have known about this before the election and done something about it eh?

No. The poorly educated OUTNUMBER the cerebral ( spelled correctly ) types.

And what do you suggest they do? They told the poorly educated that Trump was a bad idea, and the poorly educated screamed back, “ FAKE NEWS!!!!”

Freedom means the freedom to make bad choices based in ignorance as well. It can’t be freedom as long as people make the sane and educated choice.

And let’s be honest, Hillary would have kept the ship afloat but she wasn’t a good choice either.

 

[Vidi]

We might experience the first generation of bumpkins that do not want to send their kids to school for better lives.

Might?

Number of Homeschoolers in U.S. 2017-2018 Home School Growing

 

[AlphaOmega]

No. The poorly educated OUTNUMBER the cerebral ( spelled correctly ) types.

And what do you suggest they do? They told the poorly educated that Trump was a bad idea, and the poorly educated screamed back, “ FAKE NEWS!!!!”

Freedom means the freedom to make bad choices based in ignorance as well. It can’t be freedom as long as people make the sane and educated choice.

And let’s be honest, Hillary would have kept the ship afloat but she wasn’t a good choice either.

Why do the cerebral types not know what a typo is? Secondly..why do the poorly educated not agree with the cerebral types?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

This place is entertainment. Stupid people should be made fun of.

Is EVERYTHING entertainment, even when someone is making a serious post?
Congratulations, I will never again take a single post of yours seriously, even those that pertain to your "signature" values, which I notice you have now deleted from your sig line.

I guess you don't even take anything about yourself seriously anymore either.

 

[ecofarm]

Is EVERYTHING entertainment, even when someone is making a serious post?
Congratulations, I will never again take a single post of yours seriously,

That one would think anyone cares is hilarious. Good one.

even those that pertain to your "signature" values, which I notice you have now deleted from your sig line.

I guess you don't even take anything about yourself seriously anymore either.

I toggle my signature off for 99% of my posts because it's not directly relevant. I only allow the default toggle of 'on' when relevant. I'll put it on for you now. See? It's been the same for ten years.

 

[ecofarm]

Aaaaannnnd...

Now it's off!

Amazing, right?

 

[AlphaOmega]

Let's review some simpleton ideas that Trump won on. Let's start with illegal immigration and why democrats do not want our borders enforced. Please don't say you do...that isn't cerebral. That's what we call a lie. Please defend your ideology.

 

[ecofarm]

Let's review some simpleton ideas that Trump won on. Let's start with illegal immigration and why democrats do not want our borders enforced. Please don't say you do...that isn't cerebral. That's what we call a lie. Please defend your ideology.

That's a derp.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

In my lifetime I have had 3 "careers" and at least 24 jobs, ranging from janitor, cook and bottlewasher (literally) to Executive Officer and Assistant Attorney General. I consider myself intellectual, as I like to think about all kinds of things, including what I think and do, but, notwithstanding some posts to the contrary, not arrogant. But... I have noticed, even in myself, a creeping pattern of discourse that is both crude and dismissive. It's not just here on this forum, it is in our newspapers and magazines, on our televisions, and in our daily lives. Conversations are boiled down to "tweets" and text messages (email is so passe), or, if particularly loquacious, a brief exchange while waiting for our lattes at Starbucks. People don't interact with each other as fully as they did even a few decades ago. They get their information and form beliefs from headlines, not the articles.

I've noticed it particularly on weighty topics like climate change, global economics or the Mueller report. In lieu of in-depth study or reading, we post and respond with pithy points based upon cursory knowledge or beliefs. Again, it is not just on discussion forums like this. It seems to be everywhere. We have become a nation of simpletons. Complex thoughts and understanding are becoming rarer and rarer. Part of it is the deteriorization (that's deliberate, not a typo) of our education system, and the divisions between the haves and have nots - but it infests every strata of society. The apotheosis, in my view, is Donald Trump in the White House, the apex simpleton, and a cabinet full of singularly unqualified appointees. But again, it is not a political thing. We, as a society, have attention deficit in the worst way. We can't hold onto a line of thought to the end of a sentence, much less a paragraph, and even less a 448 page report. Our understanding of a topic has to be reduced to a bumper sticker, 288 characters, or a single double-spaced page with bullet points. In that environment bad actors get away with murder, and much worse.

I haven't determined whether our political divide is a symptom of this or merely an accelerant of the trend. Our beliefs are becoming binary: With me, agin' me; fascist or socialist; crackpot or nutjob. But there are big, complicated issues that we have to address both individually and as a nation - security (social, national and personal), environmental degradation, national and international economics, social justice - and soon we are going to be faced with even more, like a worldwide water shortage, dwindling fuel supplies, loss of natural resources and population growth. These are issues that are not amenable to bumper-sticker sized solutions or pithy programs. We need to emerge from our simpleton stupor, but the question is, how?

Fear, despair, uncertainty, doubt. All of these have been sown full measure for more than four decades.
Now comes the harvest, a harvest of shame.
It's a fecal sandwich and we are all going to have to take bite.

But mostly it is the despair which forms the kernel, the germ of the seeds we allowed to be sown.
It is the Despair Quotient.

You're not alone. We are indeed a car full of drunken angry siblings, so absorbed in our internecine tribal warfare that we don't even realize that we're careening over a cliff. It's a cliffhanger.

And now here are some scenes from next week's episode.

PS: "Apex Simpleton" is worthy of embroidering and framing.

 

[NWRatCon]

I really appreciate the seriousness with which you took this thread, MrWonka. I won't quote the whole post, but I agree with your assessment.

I think step one has to be a restructuring of our election laws, and by "our" I mean the United States. I believe so much of what we're seeing is really a product of the adversarial system. Ranked choice voting has been used around the world with great success and I believe it will drive our political discourse more towards a cooperative approach rather than a combative approach because being the most hated candidate is a death sentence.

There have been several posts that have proven my hypothesis, but this is a solution, and a consideration, that I think is extremely germane. I have been immersed in my careers (especially as lawyer and Soldier) in adversarial processes, but progress generally results from compromise and cooperation. I trained and served for a short time as a mediator. It is amazing how much can be accomplished in an environment where Mutually Assured Destruction is not the goal/norm.

I like the idea of ranked choice voting, and where it has been implemented, it has been successful. One of the advantages is that it actually is more likely to produce the desired result of the electorate. I'd love to see it implemented on a national basis.

I also think that the influx of women into Congress will have a profound impact on the culture of the institution (for the good). Like it or not, at least here in the United States, men tend to think adversarially where women are more collaborative. I don't know whether it is hard-wiring or cultural acclimatization, but it is perceptible and quantifiable. Women Actually Do Govern Differently (NYT- subscription); Why Women Prefer Working Together (and Why Men Prefer Working Alone) (the Atlantic). I personally find that encouraging, as government should reflect the makeup of the governed.

 

[Bullseye]

In my lifetime I have had 3 "careers" and at least 24 jobs, ranging from janitor, cook and bottlewasher (literally) to Executive Officer and Assistant Attorney General. I consider myself intellectual, as I like to think about all kinds of things, including what I think and do, but, notwithstanding some posts to the contrary, not arrogant. But... I have noticed, even in myself, a creeping pattern of discourse that is both crude and dismissive. It's not just here on this forum, it is in our newspapers and magazines, on our televisions, and in our daily lives. Conversations are boiled down to "tweets" and text messages (email is so passe), or, if particularly loquacious, a brief exchange while waiting for our lattes at Starbucks. People don't interact with each other as fully as they did even a few decades ago. They get their information and form beliefs from headlines, not the articles.

I've noticed it particularly on weighty topics like climate change, global economics or the Mueller report. In lieu of in-depth study or reading, we post and respond with pithy points based upon cursory knowledge or beliefs. Again, it is not just on discussion forums like this. It seems to be everywhere. We have become a nation of simpletons. Complex thoughts and understanding are becoming rarer and rarer. Part of it is the deteriorization (that's deliberate, not a typo) of our education system, and the divisions between the haves and have nots - but it infests every strata of society. The apotheosis, in my view, is Donald Trump in the White House, the apex simpleton, and a cabinet full of singularly unqualified appointees. But again, it is not a political thing. We, as a society, have attention deficit in the worst way. We can't hold onto a line of thought to the end of a sentence, much less a paragraph, and even less a 448 page report. Our understanding of a topic has to be reduced to a bumper sticker, 288 characters, or a single double-spaced page with bullet points. In that environment bad actors get away with murder, and much worse.

I haven't determined whether our political divide is a symptom of this or merely an accelerant of the trend. Our beliefs are becoming binary: With me, agin' me; fascist or socialist; crackpot or nutjob. But there are big, complicated issues that we have to address both individually and as a nation - security (social, national and personal), environmental degradation, national and international economics, social justice - and soon we are going to be faced with even more, like a worldwide water shortage, dwindling fuel supplies, loss of natural resources and population growth. These are issues that are not amenable to bumper-sticker sized solutions or pithy programs. We need to emerge from our simpleton stupor, but the question is, how?

You raise some interesting points and then destroy them by introducing Trump into the discussion. You argue for rational, reasoned discussion, then subtly imply "if you disagree with me on Trump" you're not part of the intellectual, academic cohort I'm talking to.

On a second topic, forums like this are not academic discussion boards, they're, for the most part diversions, distractions: entertainment. I read and research widely for my own edification - done it for decades. And I try to apply what I've gained over those decades to my posts. I don't look at a post and spend hours of research before responding, I see this as a virtual group sitting around fire pit or table in a bar/restaurant not as a defense of my thesis.

Yeah, things get a little coarse (or worse, at times) but that's a symptom of our times, I fear. I try to separate my opinion of a person's ideas from my opinion of the person. On another forum I belonged to we had get togethers 2-3 times a year and I think that tempered some of the online discussions. And we had fun! That forum was locally based and had far fewer active participants; I can't imagine what the type of gathering would be like for DP. We'd have to rent a Las Vegas hotel!.

 

[Vidi]

Why do the cerebral types not know what a typo is? Secondly..why do the poorly educated not agree with the cerebral types?

The cerebral types do know what a typo is. They also know what humor is.

The poorly educated don’t agree with the cerebral types because they have been taught to distrust smart people, especially smart people who tell them that their preconceived notions are not supported by facts.

Hence, their devotion to the simpleton in the White House.

 

[Vidi]

Let's review some simpleton ideas that Trump won on. Let's start with illegal immigration and why democrats do not want our borders enforced. Please don't say you do...that isn't cerebral. That's what we call a lie. Please defend your ideology.

See?

Here you make a statement that says you can’t be smart AND support border security.

You’ve already decided, regardless of what the facts may be. Then you demand that your straw man argument must be defended.

 

[yankintx]

No. The poorly educated OUTNUMBER the cerebral ( spelled correctly ) types.

And what do you suggest they do? They told the poorly educated that Trump was a bad idea, and the poorly educated screamed back, “ FAKE NEWS!!!!”

Freedom means the freedom to make bad choices based in ignorance as well. It can’t be freedom as long as people make the sane and educated choice.

And let’s be honest, Hillary would have kept the ship afloat but she wasn’t a good choice either.

Nov 2016 we had a choice between two turds, one of whom contains nuts. I chose the sane one, she lost and so did America with a President Trump.

 

[MrWonka]

I wonder why the simpleton is President and the cerbral types like yourself are TDSing anonymoysly on the internet. Why do you think that is?

Because fear is very unifying whereas intellectual thought is more nuanced and harder to unify.