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A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinton

Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

The electors had nothing to with this issue ......

yup very very very true.. they would not touch it with a ten foot pole. And in that failure neglected to do their due diligence as Hamilton informed the nation was part of their responsibilities.

Of course, now we know that Hamiltons words in the Federalist papers are good for picking up the dog crap on the sidewalk but not much more in the year 2016.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

As has been stated and you ignore, this country is a representative democracy and as Jefferson stated, power corrupts which is why a part time Congress was created and the power given to the states. State legislatures and Congressional Representatives are elected by a democracy, the President is elected by the electoral college. Basic civics will explain this to you as will actual research. Since you don't believe it was the Founders goal to control big cities and populous states tell us why they created the electoral college?

You said it was their goal, and all I've asked for is a quote to demonstrate that was their goal.

And I won't tell you why I think they did - I'll QUOTE THEM from Federalist 68: The Avalon Project : Federalist No 68

THE mode of appointment of the Chief Magistrate of the United States is almost the only part of the system, of any consequence, which has escaped without severe censure, or which has received the slightest mark of approbation from its opponents. The most plausible of these, who has appeared in print, has even deigned to admit that the election of the President is pretty well guarded.1 I venture somewhat further, and hesitate not to affirm, that if the manner of it be not perfect, it is at least excellent. It unites in an eminent degree all the advantages, the union of which was to be wished for.

It was desirable that the sense of the people should operate in the choice of the person to whom so important a trust was to be confided. This end will be answered by committing the right of making it, not to any preestablished body, but to men chosen by the people for the special purpose, and at the particular conjuncture.

It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations.

It was also peculiarly desirable to afford as little opportunity as possible to tumult and disorder. This evil was not least to be dreaded in the election of a magistrate, who was to have so important an agency in the administration of the government as the President of the United States. But the precautions which have been so happily concerted in the system under consideration, promise an effectual security against this mischief. The choice of SEVERAL, to form an intermediate body of electors, will be much less apt to convulse the community with any extraordinary or violent movements, than the choice of ONE who was himself to be the final object of the public wishes. And as the electors, chosen in each State, are to assemble and vote in the State in which they are chosen, this detached and divided situation will expose them much less to heats and ferments, which might be communicated from them to the people, than if they were all to be convened at one time, in one place.

Nothing there or anywhere else about " Founders goal to control big cities and populous states."

But if you see it, please feel free to point it out to me!
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

I - not you - not anyone can proves something DID NOT HAPPEN. We can only prove what did happen. If you know of any evidence that the electors met either on Monday or before Monday and discussed the Russian situation and what actions they should take, feel free to present it.

I don't need to. I only point out you have no evidence they did not consider the matter. They need not have discussed it; individual reflection is powerful.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

You said it was their goal, and all I've asked for is a quote to demonstrate that was their goal.

And I won't tell you why I think they did - I'll QUOTE THEM from Federalist 68: The Avalon Project : Federalist No 68



Nothing there or anywhere else about " Founders goal to control big cities and populous states."

But if you see it, please feel free to point it out to me!

WOW!!!!! That is really lowdown dishonest to quote the actual Founders instead of just relying on a conservative opinion of what the Foounders really thought.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

yup very very very true.. they would not touch it with a ten foot pole. And in that failure neglected to do their due diligence as Hamilton informed the nation was part of their responsibilities.

Of course, now we know that Hamiltons words in the Federalist papers are good for picking up the dog crap on the sidewalk but not much more in the year 2016.

No need to touch it, the Russians had no affect on the election outcome as they had nothing to do with the vote. EC did its job and officially elected Trump. As has been pointed out you pick and choose words out of the Federalist paper that support your point of view and ignore other words that do not. How typical of you.

This election has hit you hard and you are having a hard time admitting that your ideology was defeated on November 8 and the next four years is going to be unraveled. You still have time to move to California to be with more people of your ideology. I don't understand how you who taught civics doesn't understand that we aren't a Democracy but rather a Representative Democracy. guess your ideology is all that matters rather than actual facts, logic, and common sense
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

I don't need to. I only point out you have no evidence they did not consider the matter. They need not have discussed it; individual reflection is powerful.

The world has no evidence that they considered the matter. Do you comprehend that?

Nobody can prove a negative. If you tell me that there are three inch monkeys made of blue flame that play a version of basketball underneath the surface of Uranus - neither I nor anyone else can prove that is not true.

My statement - we have no evidence at all that the electors met on Monday and discussed the Russian situation if fact unless you or someone else has evidence to the contrary.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

No need to touch it, the Russians had no affect on the election outcome as they had nothing to do with the vote.

So nothing that happens in election campaigns effects the vote of the people or their decision as who to vote for?
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

You made a blanket statement about "majority rules." On many things, it should not.
Actually, I created a paraphrased comment from what ANOTHER poster said, that fact still has not penetrated yer blindness.



Totally, they were not my words, ergo it was impossible for me to "agree" with them. You have glossed over the fact that they were in quotation marks, signifying the fact they they are not mine...."counselor".

Unless you'd be down with a majority wanting to establish a state religion and making everyone a member, or unless you were down with the majorities in states who voted to prevent same-sex marriage.
And once again, our "counselor" is creating straw argument out of cloth, conflating a paraphrasing about a specific instance to a general belief...of something I never said.

But maybe I'm wrong,
Usually....and more importantly...specifically in this case, you are.
and maybe you really do seriously
Still "thinking" the paraphrasing was "serious"...good grief.
think the majority should rule in all cases no matter what it is. Is that so? Majority rule for everything?
The counselor extends the conflation to absolutes!
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

You said it was their goal, and all I've asked for is a quote to demonstrate that was their goal.

And I won't tell you why I think they did - I'll QUOTE THEM from Federalist 68: The Avalon Project : Federalist No 68



Nothing there or anywhere else about " Founders goal to control big cities and populous states."

But if you see it, please feel free to point it out to me!

There was mixed opinions on whether or not we would have a strong central govt. or small central govt. The small central govt. won out as did the Representative democracy. Electors are representatives of the people in the states. I am waiting for your explanation as to why the electoral college was created. My point stands, it promotes fairness and limits the power of the large cities and populous states.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

So nothing that happens in election campaigns effects the vote of the people or their decision as who to vote for?

Of course, the left has been spreading propaganda and outright lies for years yet that doesn't bother you since the left won the WH 8 years ago. That is over, you lost, get over it. The left wants people to believe that the right wants to starve kids, kill seniors, and pollute the air. The left wants people to ignore the results of the last 8 years and flyover country finally has had enough. You lost, your ideology lost, and it is going to be a long four years for you as you watch the rest of your agenda unraveled.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Of course, the left has been spreading propaganda and outright lies for years yet that doesn't bother you since the left won the WH 8 years ago. That is over, you lost, get over it. The left wants people to believe that the right wants to starve kids, kill seniors, and pollute the air. The left wants people to ignore the results of the last 8 years and flyover country finally has had enough. You lost, your ideology lost, and it is going to be a long four years for you as you watch the rest of your agenda unraveled.

Your post did not answer the question you reproduced from me but then ignored.

Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
So nothing that happens in election campaigns effects the vote of the people or their decision as who to vote for?
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Your post did not answer the question you reproduced from me but then ignored.

Kind of like you ignoring a lot of things like the Federalist papers you don't want to accept. I know how hard this is for you since you believe you are right on every issue and the American people who elected Trump are wrong. We have four years to find out and all you are doing is showing what a poor loser you are by not letting the issue go. The rules were in place before the election, now you want to change the rules because you didn't get the results you wanted. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. It is time for you to admit you lost, Trump is the LEGITIMATE President according to U.S. Law, and if you don't like it go into hibernation for the next four years.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

When you can quote me saying that and only that is my case against Trump and the EC - you might have a point. Until then - its just you arguing against you and trying to pretend its me.



Haymarket shuffle.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Actually, I created a paraphrased comment from what ANOTHER poster said, that fact still has not penetrated yer blindness.

Yeah, I saw you claim he's saying "majorities shouldn't rule!!" And the conclusion is that you think is a silly position to take.

But it's also a position YOU take on many topics, so you don't think it's that silly after all.

The point was clear. Even you could follow it.

The rest of your nonsense is pure theater.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

The world has no evidence that they considered the matter. Do you comprehend that?

Nobody can prove a negative. If you tell me that there are three inch monkeys made of blue flame that play a version of basketball underneath the surface of Uranus - neither I nor anyone else can prove that is not true.

My statement - we have no evidence at all that the electors met on Monday and discussed the Russian situation if fact unless you or someone else has evidence to the contrary.

The world is not entitled to evidence that they considered anything. The electors' deliberations are their own. The electors owe you no evidence. You have no grounds to claim they did or did not consider anything.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Yeah, I saw you claim he's saying "majorities shouldn't rule!!" And the conclusion is that you think is a silly position to take.
It is, within the the CONTEXT of the argument.....your path is to insert YOUR context....and then claim I'm making the same argument for YOUR DIFFERENT context, it doesn't work like that, "counselor".

But it's also a position YOU take on many topics, so you don't think it's that silly after all.
We aren't talking about "many topics", that is not the context, "counselor".

The point was clear. Even you could follow it.
It wasn't a "point", it was pure straw, diversion, and an attempt to turn it into gold...but it fails.

The rest of your nonsense is pure theater.
The one re-staging, trying to re-write the script....is you, counselor.

Isn't there an ambulance you need to chase?
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Uh, no, he's correct; we are a representative democracy. We are also a federal republic.

Links provided to dispel your confusion, if you choose to.
Again, for the hard of comprehending, I never denied the US is a representative democracy, I said it is, by definition, an example of a liberal democracy.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

It is, within the the CONTEXT of the argument.....your path is to insert YOUR context....and then claim I'm making the same argument for YOUR DIFFERENT context, it doesn't work like that, "counselor".

We aren't talking about "many topics", that is not the context, "counselor".

It wasn't a "point", it was pure straw, diversion, and an attempt to turn it into gold...but it fails.

The one re-staging, trying to re-write the script....is you, counselor.

Isn't there an ambulance you need to chase?

:roll:

It's not a different context, dude. You tried to say what he said was invalid was because "majorities shouldn't rule!!!!!" But majorities SHOULDN'T rule in all cases . . . which MEANS, because you need your hand held and to be guided all the way through this, that in THIS case, that may also be true as well.

Your silly paraphrase of him is meaningful ONLY if the majority should rule in all cases. But that is far, far, FAR from true, and even you know this.

Very few other people would need this explained.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Again, for the hard of comprehending, I never denied the US is a representative democracy, I said it is, by definition, an example of a liberal democracy.

You interloped into his conversation to "correct" him when he said we're a representative democracy:

Um, it is a liberal democracy, by definition.

Good grief.

That's the only thing you could have been doing, because in the post which you quoted, he never said we weren't a liberal democracy.

You clearly think you corrected him. In fact, you think it so deeply that you said "good grief" in (misplaced) exasperation.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

:roll:

It's not a different context, dude.
Yes duudder, it is, and my response is specific to the argument made within his post.....and not to your ever broadening absolute of everything under the sun. You don't get to tell me what I was responding to.
You tried to say what he said was invalid was because "majorities shouldn't rule!!!!!" But majorities SHOULDN'T rule in all cases .
But duuddddddeeeeerrrrrrr, the response was not to a post that included EVERYTHING you want it to, you don't get to insert any scenario and then claim I was making an absolute. It doesn't work like that....duuuuuuuuder.
. . which MEANS, because you need your hand held and to be guided all the way through this, that in THIS case, that may also be true as well.
"This case"...is your fabrication, an absolute.....that I was not speaking to, ergo, yer creating a straw argument, Rumple.

Your silly paraphrase of him is meaningful ONLY if the majority should rule in all cases.


But that is far, far, FAR from true, and even you know this.

Very few other people would need this explained.
"If I keep repeating this straw, it will be true!"
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Yes duudder, it is, and my response is specific to the argument made within his post.....and not to your ever broadening absolute of everything under the sun. You don't get to tell me what I was responding to. But duuddddddeeeeerrrrrrr, the response was not to a post that included EVERYTHING you want it to, you don't get to insert any scenario and then claim I was making an absolute. It doesn't work like that....duuuuuuuuder."This case"...is your fabrication, an absolute.....that I was not speaking to, ergo, yer creating a straw argument, Rumple.

"If I keep repeating this straw, it will be true!"

Honest question (though you needn't bother answering, as I'm only wondering out loud to myself): do you even know what you're arguing about anymore?
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

You interloped into his conversation to "correct" him when he said we're a representative democracy:



That's the only thing you could have been doing, because in the post which you quoted, he never said we weren't a liberal democracy.

You clearly think you corrected him. In fact, you think it so deeply that you said "good grief" in (misplaced) exasperation.
The irony is that you are clueless to what comments he has made previously today on the topic of liberal democracy, ergo, the "interloper"...is you.

Wait....I just heard an ambulance pass by....$$$$
 
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