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A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinton

Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Actually, it really doesn't, as far as the EC is concerned.

No person here seems to be arguing that so why do you bring it up?
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

And what do you believe your 'point' was what exactly?

Well please let me know what part of this...

I am glad to see you still ignore a point and then accuse me of not having one. Thanks bro!

I need to explain to you in detail?
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

The EC renders him legal. There is a difference in legal according to lawful procedures and being legitimate in the eyes of the citizenry.

And you are the spokesperson for the citizenry? You can only speak for yourself.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

*facepalm*

You JUST agreed with me that no one's votes were invalid. How does that translate into their votes being invalid and Trump really didn't win??


Anyone casting a vote that has not been challenged is valid. There is no argument about that.

And there is no dispute that Trump won the EC and legally becomes the next president in a month. There is no argument about that either.

The argument concerns if Trump is illegitimate in the eyes of some American citizens.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

But you were presented with evidence. You simply refuse to accept it. That is on you - not upon me.

No. You presented "conjecture" from the intelligence community. That is evidence of well... nothing. Why don't you post the information that prove guilt by the Russians? Oh I know why... You can't.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

And you are the spokesperson for the citizenry? You can only speak for yourself.

And as part of the citizenry that is what I am doing.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

No. You presented "conjecture" from the intelligence community. That is evidence of well... nothing. Why don't you post the information that prove guilt by the Russians? Oh I know why... You can't.

Only somebody deep in the delusions of the far right would dismiss the professional conclusions of 17 different intelligence and defense agencies and departments as 'not evidence' because it endangers the acceptance of their belief system.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

And as part of the citizenry that is what I am doing.

Without having to read 15+ pages of posts, you base his illegitimacy on what?
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

No person here seems to be arguing that so why do you bring it up?

Oh, good. I thought you we arguing that the EC shouldn't vote for him because you think he's not qualified.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Anyone casting a vote that has not been challenged is valid. There is no argument about that.

And there is no dispute that Trump won the EC and legally becomes the next president in a month. There is no argument about that either.

The argument concerns if Trump is illegitimate in the eyes of some American citizens.

In other words .... yes, yes...he won fair and square, but....

tantrum.webp
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Only somebody deep in the delusions of the far right would dismiss the professional conclusions of 17 different intelligence and defense agencies and departments as 'not evidence' because it endangers the acceptance of their belief system.

It is not evidence, it is conjecture. If there was any real evidence they would present it, they don't. What does this tell you?
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Anyone casting a vote that has not been challenged is valid. There is no argument about that.

And there is no dispute that Trump won the EC and legally becomes the next president in a month. There is no argument about that either.

The argument concerns if Trump is illegitimate in the eyes of some American citizens.

How many people do you think didn't think Obama was legitimate? Did that somehow matter to anything?
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Only somebody deep in the delusions of the far right would dismiss the professional conclusions of 17 different intelligence and defense agencies and departments as 'not evidence' because it endangers the acceptance of their belief system.

Aren't you from the same generation that dealt with lies from the CIA during Vietnam? So what, they were trash when you were say 18, but good and dandy all these decades later?
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Only somebody deep in the delusions of the far right would dismiss the professional conclusions of 17 different intelligence and defense agencies and departments as 'not evidence' because it endangers the acceptance of their belief system.

The CIA has not testified before congress nor have any of the other agencies

So is no evidence to prove what they think happened

The link to russia is just a liberal rumor so far

And that's because the accusation can't be proved even by the CIA
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Only somebody deep in the delusions of the far right would dismiss the professional conclusions of 17 different intelligence and defense agencies and departments as 'not evidence' because it endangers the acceptance of their belief system.

The "Fact" That 17 Intelligence Agencies Confirmed Russia is Behind the Email Hacks Isn’t Actually…A "Fact" - The "Fact" That 17 Intelligence Agencies Confirmed Russia is Behind the Email Hacks Isn?t Actually?A "Fact" | Zero Hedge

No, Hillary, 17 U.S. Intelligence Agencies Did Not Say Russia Hacked Dem E-mails - Hillary Clinton -- Democratic Emails Hacked by Russia | National Review

Well I would say you are wrong again.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

The CIA has not testified before congress nor have any of the other agencies

So is no evidence to prove what they think happened

The link to russia is just a liberal rumor so far

And that's because the accusation can't be proved even by the CIA

It's kind of fun that they have the NSA looking at all communication, but there is no evidence of the communication in question. I bet that's because it came from inside and the device used was a USB stick.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Instead of asking a political novice, you could ask the more than one dozen leading conservative newspapers that almost always endorse conservatives why they could not stomach Trump...

Why don't you post some solid reasoning instead of links to anti Trump people? You must have something to back it up. I'm not holding my breath on this one.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

If they considered it at all which we have no evidence that they even did that. Sadly, one of the key reasons for the EC given by Hamilton proved to be just so much empty and hollow words on a paper that is no longer relevant to the time we live in.

the main goal of the EC is to prevent direct democracy
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

the main goal of the EC is to prevent direct democracy
You would have thought that someone who taught civics would have understood that but apparently not. Michigan education standards do not seem to coincide with other states. The electoral college did exactly what it was supposed to do prevent the buying of an election by the major metropolitan areas and Sanctuary cities

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

You would have thought that someone who taught civics would have understood that but apparently not. Michigan education standards do not seem to coincide with other states. The electoral college did exactly what it was supposed to do prevent the buying of an election by the major metropolitan areas and Sanctuary cities

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

only 2 kinds of people want democratic form of government, those that don't understand what it really is and the others who are socialist

a democratic form of government is collective, and the founders sought to exclude the collective capacity of the people in American government to protect us from it
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Hamilton could just about named Trump as exactly what he had in mind.

As I explained in my last post, Trump is something very, very different than what Hamilton had in mind.

That is, again, if you accept that words mean what the dictionary says they mean.

If you're open to assigning any old meaning to any old word then I completely agree that words can mean whatever anyone wants them to mean in order to suit any purpose.

I take words at face value, you invent new meanings for words in order to construct irrelevant and largely impotent arguments.

Different strokes and all that, and who's to say who's right?

Regardless, it's neither here nor there at this point.

The electors have already voted and they've elected Trump, so I guess it really doesn't matter, at the end of the day, what some anonymous guy on the Internet thinks Hamilton meant, especially when Hamilton's opinion on the topic was just that, and carried absolutely no force of law.

Even if Trump was EXACTLY what Hamilton warned about, as you've argued, Hamilton's opinion in #68 was just a warning, it wasn't official instructions to potential future electors and there is no legislative mandate that electors even consider it.

As I said earlier, I think that, Hamilton made a very good point, and issued a very fair warning.

As with most things the Founders spoke on as it concerns our system of government, we all would be wise to heed their opinions, warnings, and musings.

But I disagree with you that Trump fit's Hamilton's description of a foreign power's "creature" no matter how you look at things.

Feel free to have the last word if you'd like, I'll read whatever it is you have to say, though I'm sure it will amount to little more than beating a dead horse, but I'll do you the courtesy of reading it nevertheless and I'll "like" it so you know I've read it, but I'm bowing out of this discussion because any "debate" is over.
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

As I explained in my last post, Trump is something very, very different than what Hamilton had in mind.

That is, again, if you accept that words mean what the dictionary says they mean.

If you're open to assigning any old meaning to any old word then I completely agree that words can mean whatever anyone wants them to mean in order to suit any purpose.

I take words at face value, you invent new meanings for words in order to construct irrelevant and largely impotent arguments.

Different strokes and all that, and who's to say who's right?

Regardless, it's neither here nor there at this point.

The electors have already voted and they've elected Trump, so I guess it really doesn't matter, at the end of the day, what some anonymous guy on the Internet thinks Hamilton meant, especially when Hamilton's opinion on the topic was just that, and carried absolutely no force of law.

Even if Trump was EXACTLY what Hamilton warned about, as you've argued, Hamilton's opinion in #68 was just a warning, it wasn't official instructions to potential future electors and there is no legislative mandate that electors even consider it.

As I said earlier, I think that, Hamilton made a very good point, and issued a very fair warning.

As with most things the Founders spoke on as it concerns our system of government, we all would be wise to heed their opinions, warnings, and musings.

But I disagree with you that Trump fit's Hamilton's description of a foreign power's "creature" no matter how you look at things.

Feel free to have the last word if you'd like, I'll read whatever it is you have to say, though I'm sure it will amount to little more than beating a dead horse, but I'll do you the courtesy of reading it nevertheless and I'll "like" it so you know I've read it, but I'm bowing out of this discussion because any "debate" is over.

Madison warns us in federalist 63, that the senate is to represent the state governments and not the people, however the left does not listen to that warning
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

only 2 kinds of people want democratic form of government, those that don't understand what it really is and the others who are socialist

a democratic form of government is collective, and the founders sought to exclude the collective capacity of the people in American government to protect us from it

Wonder why our resident civics teacher here doesn't understand that. States have democracies whereas the Federal govt. is a Representative Democracy. Our Founders knew that power corrupts which is why they created a system that doesn't allow for the direct popular vote to elect our President. To do so puts too much power in the big Urban areas that are easily manipulated
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

One good thing did come out of all this - we learned what the modern real world worth of the Federalist Papers and all their pontifications and pronouncements about the Constitution and government are today.

And that worth is not at all very much when the very electors Hamilton described failed to do one of the things that he said they were there for in the first place.

So much for the sainted founders and their federalist papers.




Problem with your whole screed is that it has to be more than "i don't like that guy"/
 
Re: A Historic Number of Electors Defected, and Most Were Supposed to Vote for Clinto

Oh my! I'll bet it isn't her husband, either.

I'm okay with Sean Connery's weiner being wagged. Anthony's, no thanks.

Anthony looks like ...........

Anthony Wiener and Beavis.webp
 
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