A graphic appreciation of America's postwar economic evolution

[Lafayette]

MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME EXPLODES

The rich and large corps have good control over the present tax system and are doing just fine, thank you. A flat-tax system would be sold as something that would be better for the middle class, but instead would be even better than what already favors more than before the last new tax plan that favored the rich and large corps, leaving the middle class and those with less with less.

No, what America needs is to restrict upper-income amassment of riches. Far too much goes to too few who pass it on to their inheritors (who deserve nothing of it)!

But that aint-gonna-happin until America-itself wakes up to the fact that enriching people-at-the-top is not the ultimate goal of a dynamic-and-fair economy - and until then life is going to get worse at the bottom before the top gets better-taxed.

Are we waiting for the BigBang? Time will tell, because its just gotta happin'. Too manny (riches for so few) is simply too much - and their wealth can be better spent improving the lives that need it most - those at the bottom who (by proper education and/or instruction) get better paid jobs;

Around 15% of Americans live below the Poverty Threshold (family of four) is $26.5K and they aint comin' out any time soon. Consider this graphic of "median household income" from here: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=I4sq#0

To see what that graphic looks like you'll have try to hook it on your own. The FRED does not allow it to be linked - just displayed. My point nonetheless is that in 2014 median-household-income "burped" and started to shoot upward. Last data point in 2020 is around $68K per family! (Up from $57K!)

That's a pretty damn good income-level for the US! It would help to know how and why it shot up to that level in only 5 years to understand if it intends to remain at its highest and most recent figure ... !

 

[bluesmoke]

A flat-tax would be honest only if we were all making the same income.

And that aint ever gonna happin ...!

Do you think that everyone making the same is the way it should be?

 

[Lafayette]

BLAH-BLAH-BLAH

The rich and large corps have good control over the present tax system and are doing just fine, thank you.

Pompous silliness! The rich are rich because America has been sleeping whilst the Replicants lowered upper-income taxation since JFK started the downturn. There is NOTHING particularly sacred to earning billions-of-moulah. In fact, it's the devil's handiwork because it intrigues people LIKE YOU!

Wealth is otherwise perfectly useless because most of it remains in a bank-account somewhere doing not much of anything that really helps the economy to learn and grow. It just makes the rich richer.

And a flat-tax is sheer folly. It would increase by leaps-and-bounds the already far too wealthy rich! They gotta be taxed far more than they are today and the money better spent elsewhere. Like free post-secondary education or a National Healthcare System. Where it could really would do som good for the American people ...!

 

[Lafayette]

The rich and large corps have good control over the present tax system and are doing just fine, thank you.

What "control"? You a Nazi or sumthin?

Taxation is a product of law and any law is well within the rights of citizens to question as well as change.

THAT is what is called a democracy ... !

 

[Lafayette]

LOTSA RICH PEOPLE IN AMERICA DUE TO LOW TAXATION-RATES

The rich and large corps have good control over the present tax system and are doing just fine, thank you.

Yep, for as ripoff for the rich due to low upper-income taxation, Uncle Sam IS pretty-damn-good!

The richest country in the world has one of the lowest tax-systems. You'll find the stats here:

Excerpt:

The United States ranked 32nd out of 38 OECD countries in terms of the tax-to-GDP ratio in 2020. In 2020, the United States had a tax-to-GDP ratio of 25.5% compared with the OECD average of 33.5%. In 2019, the United States was also ranked 32nd out of the 38 OECD countries in terms of the tax-to-GDP ratio.

Uncle Sam's Land - great low-low-low taxation compared to the rest of the world. High lower-end poverty rates but - hey! - who cares ... ?

 

[bluesmoke]

MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME EXPLODES



No, what America needs is to restrict upper-income amassment of riches. Far too much goes to too few who pass it on to their inheritors (who deserve nothing of it)!

But that aint-gonna-happin until America-itself wakes up to the fact that enriching people-at-the-top is not the ultimate goal of a dynamic-and-fair economy - and until then life is going to get worse at the bottom before the top gets better-taxed.

Are we waiting for the BigBang? Time will tell, because its just gotta happin'. Too manny (riches for so few) is simply too much - and their wealth can be better spent improving the lives that need it most - those at the bottom who (by proper education and/or instruction) get better paid jobs;

Around 15% of Americans live below the Poverty Threshold (family of four) is $26.5K and they aint comin' out any time soon. Consider this graphic of "median household income" from here: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=I4sq#0

To see what that graphic looks like you'll have try to hook it on your own. The FRED does not allow it to be linked - just displayed. My point nonetheless is that in 2014 median-household-income "burped" and started to shoot upward. Last data point in 2020 is around $68K per family! (Up from $57K!)

That's a pretty damn good income-level for the US! It would help to know how and why it shot up to that level in only 5 years to understand if it intends to remain at its highest and most recent figure ... !

Things are not always what they appear to be. Especially when you dig deeper or look behind the curtain:

Incomes rose 6.8% in the U.S. last year—but a closer look shows there may not be much to cheer about

The real median household income was $68,700 in 2019, up 6.8% from the year prior, according to new data from the U.S. Census Bureau released Tuesday. But a deeper dive into the data reveals that the growth may not be as robust on second glance and most Americans have barely broken even from the...

www.cnbc.com

Median hshld income went up again in 2020 to $69,602 but went down in 2021 to $67,463, closer to what the article is saying:

Average, Median, Top 1% Household Income Percentiles - DQYDJ

Average, median, and every household income percentile in 2023 including top 1%. See what percent you are vs. all United States households.

dqydj.com

Middle and lower incomes cannot go up unless upper-level incomes come down, which corps would pass on to lower levels, or corps pay living wages. Higher taxes on the rich and large corps, to at least what they were before the Trump/Rep tax plan giveaway to the rich and large corps would help, too.

FRED is a great source.

You opened up your reply with a "No,". What are you saying "no" to?

 

[bluesmoke]

BLAH-BLAH-BLAH



Pompous silliness! The rich are rich because America has been sleeping whilst the Replicants lowered upper-income taxation since JFK started the downturn. There is NOTHING particularly sacred to earning billions-of-moulah. In fact, it's the devil's handiwork because it intrigues people LIKE YOU!

Wealth is otherwise perfectly useless because most of it remains in a bank-account somewhere doing not much of anything that really helps the economy to learn and grow. It just makes the rich richer.

And a flat-tax is sheer folly. It would increase by leaps-and-bounds the already far too wealthy rich! They gotta be taxed far more than they are today and the money better spent elsewhere. Like free post-secondary education or a National Healthcare System. Where it could really would do som good for the American people ...!

I don't understand the relevance of your reply to my post. To be clear, any attempt at a flat tax, which would only be by the Rep/cons, would be disguised as a benefit to the middle and lower incomes but actually enrich higher level incomes and large corps. In the least, it would shift the tax burden more to middle income levels than elsewhere and at least protect the rich and large corps.

 

[bluesmoke]

What "control"? You a Nazi or sumthin?

Taxation is a product of law and any law is well within the rights of citizens to question as well as change.

THAT is what is called a democracy ... !

I'm saying that the rich and large corps enjoy a tax system that favors them and have control over the politics that assure that. Do you disagree and if so, why?

 

[Lafayette]

Middle and lower incomes cannot go up unless upper-level incomes come down, which corps would pass on to lower levels, or corps pay living wages. Higher taxes on the rich and large corps, to at least what they were before the Trump/Rep tax plan giveaway to the rich and large corps would help, too.

I'm all for a Income Taxation upon-death of 99% for all worth (including realty) above $5M for one individual (spouse counted separately). Upon death, total taxation should be applied to residual wealth before any of it is distributed post-mortem. And on any

Wealth is just an accounting-game for people who want to shout to the world, "Look what I did!" One can live VERY comfortably in retirement on a Total Wealth of three to four-hundred thousand dollars (realty value of living quarters not counted). The millions should go heavily taxed.

Perpetuating wealth by means of inheritance should no longer be allowed. If you earn your wealth, you should be allowed to enjoy it. But not your inheritors. Which means that families, instead of stocking wealth, will more likely invest it in funds jointly owned by inheritors.

Family wealth thus perpetuates itself. And, I for one, do not think that should be allowed ...

 

[Lafayette]

Middle and lower incomes cannot go up unless upper-level incomes come down, which corps would pass on to lower levels, or corps pay living wages. Higher taxes on the rich and large corps, to at least what they were before the Trump/Rep tax plan giveaway to the rich and large corps would help, too.

I'm all for a Income Taxation upon-death of 99% for all worth (including realty) above $5M for one individual (spouse counted separately). Upon death, total taxation should be applied to residual wealth before any of it is distributed post-mortem. And on any

Wealth is just an accounting-game for people who want to shout to the world, "Look what I did!" One can live VERY comfortably in retirement on a Total Wealth of three to four-hundred thousand dollars (realty value of living quarters not counted). The millions should go heavily taxed.

Perpetuating wealth by means of inheritance should no longer be allowed. If you earn your wealth, you should be allowed to enjoy it. But not your inheritors. Which means that families, instead of stocking wealth, will more likely invest it in funds jointly owned by inheritors.

The creation of wealth must be severely taxed. Or, it will go on and on and on within the family. The notion that people inherit wealth is in question. I do not think this should be allowed ...

 

[Lafayette]

I'm saying that the rich and large corps enjoy a tax system that favors them and have control over the politics that assure that. Do you disagree and if so, why?

That part in red is simply untrue. They are controlling nothing in politics.

Congress and the Presidency are INFLUENCING political dispositions of the law. Which means such dispositions are under the ultimate control of congressional legislators and their political-outlook.

And it's the Replicants in key past-Presidencies that had tax-laws passed.

The US has this "thing" about BigMoney unlike anywhere else on earth. It is not very much discussed in Europe because the means of amassing wealth is so much more difficult here (in Europe) due to much higher taxation.

NB (from here):

Which European country has the highest income tax?

Denmark (55.9 percent), France (55.4 percent), and Austria (55 percent) had the highest top statutory personal income tax rates among European OECD countries in 2020. The Czech Republic (15 percent), Hungary (15 percent), and Estonia (20 percent) had the lowest top rates.

There are damn few multi-billionaires in those "15%-countries" recently admitted to the EU from Eastern Europe ...

 

[rickc]

Reagan tax cuts were the ones that created this mess. We have been here before. The roaring 20's just before the great depression. If the fed hadn't rescued Wallstreet during the Bush years we would have already have done a repeat. As it is we are just kicking the can down the road.

 

[bluesmoke]

LOTSA RICH PEOPLE IN AMERICA DUE TO LOW TAXATION-RATES



Yep, for as ripoff for the rich due to low upper-income taxation, Uncle Sam IS pretty-damn-good!

The richest country in the world has one of the lowest tax-systems. You'll find the stats here:

Excerpt:


Uncle Sam's Land - great low-low-low taxation compared to the rest of the world. High lower-end poverty rates but - hey! - who cares ... ?

Dems don't care. Another complete failure on the part of the Dems. The Rep/cons have been complaining for yrs that our corp tax rates are too high to be competitive. As a result, they bulled through the biggest corp tax break, probably in history, in the Trump/Rep tax plan. Even though the US has historically had lower taxes on corporate income as % of GDP and as % of total tax revenue, with the biggest drop in the 2018 and 2019 Trump tax plan yrs:

Home

OECD's dissemination platform for all published content - books, podcasts, serials and statistics

www.oecd-ilibrary.org

The above link is from the source cited in the link you gave in your post. Go to Tables and Graphs listed in column on left side:

Home

OECD's dissemination platform for all published content - books, podcasts, serials and statistics

www.oecd-ilibrary.org

 

[Lafayette]

Dems don't care. Another complete failure on the part of the Dems. The Rep/cons have been complaining for yrs that our corp tax rates are too high to be competitive.

Since when were corporate tax-rates a matter of competition? They apply to revenues and not the cost of production!

I don't see the basis for argument ...

PS: How about arguing that Executive Salaries are far too high and therefore influence the cost of production and thus competition?

 

[Lafayette]

IT'S NOT WHAT "WE WANT" THAT MATTERS BUT WHAT "WE SHOULD HAVE"

Dems don't care. Another complete failure on the part of the Dems. The Rep/cons have been complaining for yrs that our corp tax rates are too high to be competitive. As a result, they bulled through the biggest corp tax break, probably in history, in the Trump/Rep tax plan. Even though the US has historically had lower taxes on corporate income as % of GDP and as % of total tax revenue, with the biggest drop in the 2018 and 2019 Trump tax plan yrs:

Look, most people in developed countries think that politics is a two-year or four-year thing. And politicians dont want any shat from electors in-between elections. "Politicking" (they must think) is difficult enough. Especially if you want to make lifelong career in politics!

If Americans want to flip in-and-out of politics according to their whimsy, then so be it. But do not expect any "political weight" to be maintained especially on the Left - which is far more "fickle" than the Right that is drone-like.

Politics do not chose us - we chose our political-stance. According to our own sentiments regarding how the country should be run. Which also means a good percentage of Yanks flip from one political party to the other with amazing frequency "looking for their political-outlook in life".

And whyz-all-zat? Because we teach in high-school "Civics" courses that are insufficiently "thick" in content. And by that I mean the subject needs to get into the gory details of human political theory, thought and behaviour.

Left and Right political theory tends to be "obviated" in America. Because it is too "political". And what the hell does that mean!

It means people get passionate about the subject far too easily. It's good fun and psychologically-healing to dump all our troubles onto either political-party. When we should be looking into a mirror and asking deep, deep questions about our own political behaviour. Just what is it that we want from life that only a national political strategy can bring to us?

That is, too many riches at the top whilst there are far too-many poor at the bottom is no way to run a country!

Let's be grateful to live in a democratically free country. Now the requisite is to show More Intelligence at how we must manage it. And, I say with conviction, we must understand what we want from a "free market system" that is fair-and-benevolent for all - because what we got is immensely unfair generally.

Is it immense riches for a comparative small-percentage of the population or sufficiently good economies in general without excessive immense-wealth going to only a select few at the top!

And frankly as a people we are far, far, far from such an important qualifying economic-decision that must be made and rendered into Income Tax Law ...

 

[bluesmoke]

I'm all for a Income Taxation upon-death of 99% for all worth (including realty) above $5M for one individual (spouse counted separately). Upon death, total taxation should be applied to residual wealth before any of it is distributed post-mortem. And on any

Wealth is just an accounting-game for people who want to shout to the world, "Look what I did!" One can live VERY comfortably in retirement on a Total Wealth of three to four-hundred thousand dollars (realty value of living quarters not counted). The millions should go heavily taxed.

Perpetuating wealth by means of inheritance should no longer be allowed. If you earn your wealth, you should be allowed to enjoy it. But not your inheritors. Which means that families, instead of stocking wealth, will more likely invest it in funds jointly owned by inheritors.

Family wealth thus perpetuates itself. And, I for one, do not think that should be allowed ...

So, you call yourself a centrist in the sense that all revolves around you?

 

[bluesmoke]

That part in red is simply untrue. They are controlling nothing in politics.

Congress and the Presidency are INFLUENCING political dispositions of the law. Which means such dispositions are under the ultimate control of congressional legislators and their political-outlook.

And it's the Replicants in key past-Presidencies that had tax-laws passed.

The US has this "thing" about BigMoney unlike anywhere else on earth. It is not very much discussed in Europe because the means of amassing wealth is so much more difficult here (in Europe) due to much higher taxation.

NB (from here):


There are damn few multi-billionaires in those "15%-countries" recently admitted to the EU from Eastern Europe ...

Because "The US has this "thing" about BigMoney unlike anywhere else on earth.", money supports politicians to get elected and reelected. Rich and the corps give money to political candidates and thus gain their favor. If you don't think that "They are controlling nothing in politics.", I'll have to leave this debate at you have your opinion and I have my facts. You contradict yourself.

 

[Lafayette]

NOTHING TO BE PROUD ABOUT

Because "The US has this "thing" about BigMoney unlike anywhere else on earth.", money supports politicians to get elected and reelected. Rich and the corps give money to political candidates and thus gain their favor. If you don't think that "They are controlling nothing in politics.", I'll have to leave this debate at you have your opinion and I have my facts. You contradict yourself.

If Americans believe what they see on TV during a political campaign, then they deserve the "democracy" that they voted into office.

Besides, one can yell all they want about the preference of European National Health Care and the fact that it is the key reason that Europeans live 3/4 years longer than we Yanks in the states, but if Americans could not care less then not much can be done to change things.

In the U.S., 70.9 percent of men and 61.9 percent of women are overweight or obese, compared to 38 percent of men and 36.9 percent of women worldwide. Americans are the most obese people on earth.

From here: Are we as fat as we think?

In the last 33 years, not a single country has made serious progress in the fight against obesity. While in 1980, 857 million people worldwide were overweight or obese, by 2013 that number had more than doubled. Today, nearly one third of all living people — a whopping 2.1 billion — are either overweight or obese. These stats, including the graphics, come from a new analysis of 1,749 published studies on weight from around the world, published in the Lancet in May.

The analysis showed that the United States is home to the highest number of overweight and obese people in the world. In the U.S., 70.9 percent of men and 61.9 percent of women are overweight or obese, compared to 38 percent of men and 36.9 percent of women worldwide. Our waistlines start growing early — 28.8 percent of boys and 29.7 percent of girls are overweight or obese in the U.S., compared to 14.2 percent of boys and 14.7 percent of girls worldwide.

 

[Lafayette]

GRAPHICAL HISTORY OF MAJOR REDUCTIONS IN UPPER-INCOME TAXATION

Because "The US has this "thing" about BigMoney unlike anywhere else on earth.", money supports politicians to get elected and reelected. Rich and the corps give money to political candidates and thus gain their favor. If you don't think that "They are controlling nothing in politics.", I'll have to leave this debate at you have your opinion and I have my facts. You contradict yourself.

Yes, well put!

And I would add that most of the economic illness in the US today is of the US own making! We elected right wingers into the presidency and THEY (not the Dems) lowered upper income taxation ... !

Historical proof here (Wikipedia "Revenue Act of 1964") of the history of Replicant major-reductions of upper income taxation by year:

Each and every reduction in Federal Tax Rates after that of JFK in 1964 was by a Replicant PotUS ... !

 

[screenwriter]

If we could take all the wealth in the world and put it all into one pot - then we give every person in the world an equal share of that pot - it would maybe take 5 possibly 10 years for the wealth distribution to return to being pretty much what we have today.

Both poverty and wealth are mental processes/mindsets that don't change just because you toss money at them. Only a handful of lottery winners actually increased their winnings - but the stream of lottery winners who have gone broke is TNTC is enough to show that - but there's scads of research on the subject - particularly the problem with the poverty mindset.

 

[Lafayette]

Reagan tax cuts were the ones that created this mess. We have been here before. The roaring 20's just before the great depression. If the fed hadn't rescued Wallstreet during the Bush years we would have already have done a repeat. As it is we are just kicking the can down the road.

View attachment 67372070

View attachment 67372071


View attachment 67372072

Excellent piece of work!

Well done ... !

 

[it's just me]

You know nothing about them yet you feel able to make judgements about them?
Yes, some may waste the money but I feel the vast majority will use it wisely.

You "feel"? Feelings are notoriously unreliable.

 

[bluesmoke]

Since when were corporate tax-rates a matter of competition? They apply to revenues and not the cost of production!

I don't see the basis for argument ...

PS: How about arguing that Executive Salaries are far too high and therefore influence the cost of production and thus competition?

The argument by the Rep/cons is that if taxes were lower, biz could keep prices competitive (lower). It's not my claim. It's theirs. What happens is prices will be whatever price they can sell and make the greatest profit possible. Tariffs on steel produced in and imported from other countries was supposed to make all domestic produced steel to be more competitively priced. Instead, domestic steel prices rose to meet the tariffed imported steel and reap the increased profits.

 

[bluesmoke]

IT'S NOT WHAT "WE WANT" THAT MATTERS BUT WHAT "WE SHOULD HAVE"



Look, most people in developed countries think that politics is a two-year or four-year thing. And politicians dont want any shat from electors in-between elections. "Politicking" (they must think) is difficult enough. Especially if you want to make lifelong career in politics!

If Americans want to flip in-and-out of politics according to their whimsy, then so be it. But do not expect any "political weight" to be maintained especially on the Left - which is far more "fickle" than the Right that is drone-like.

Politics do not chose us - we chose our political-stance. According to our own sentiments regarding how the country should be run. Which also means a good percentage of Yanks flip from one political party to the other with amazing frequency "looking for their political-outlook in life".

And whyz-all-zat? Because we teach in high-school "Civics" courses that are insufficiently "thick" in content. And by that I mean the subject needs to get into the gory details of human political theory, thought and behaviour.

Left and Right political theory tends to be "obviated" in America. Because it is too "political". And what the hell does that mean!

It means people get passionate about the subject far too easily. It's good fun and psychologically-healing to dump all our troubles onto either political-party. When we should be looking into a mirror and asking deep, deep questions about our own political behaviour. Just what is it that we want from life that only a national political strategy can bring to us?

That is, too many riches at the top whilst there are far too-many poor at the bottom is no way to run a country!

Let's be grateful to live in a democratically free country. Now the requisite is to show More Intelligence at how we must manage it. And, I say with conviction, we must understand what we want from a "free market system" that is fair-and-benevolent for all - because what we got is immensely unfair generally.

Is it immense riches for a comparative small-percentage of the population or sufficiently good economies in general without excessive immense-wealth going to only a select few at the top!

And frankly as a people we are far, far, far from such an important qualifying economic-decision that must be made and rendered into Income Tax Law ...

The Rep/cons have been much more successful than the Dem/libs on their side of the economics equation. Whenever the Dem/libs brought up how unfair the tax system was, the Rep/cons have successfully argued they were waging class warfare. Warren Buffet responded, “There’s class warfare, all right,” Mr. Buffett said, “but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

 

[rickc]

Wages increase and corporations say they have to raise prices to compensate. Actually they used wages and the supply chain problems to raise prices and reap record profits.

Profits for S&P 500 companies rose 22% in the fourth quarter and nearly 50% in 2021, estimates show​