A Fitting End to the Hottest Year on Record.....

[polgara]

Don't discount the constant need for new believers who only need to repeat what they've heard from monotheistic-like sources who have driven out non-believers so as to capture control of the pulpit ... it's self-perpetuating.
There's a whole bunch of contemporary and historical examples of such mind control and how they can flourish, but they all have control of the methods of message delivery in common ... although some use violence more than others.

Jim Jones comes immediately to mind, unfortunately. It is said that he was extremely delusional because of drug use, but what excuse can be made for those 900+ that commited suicide because he told them to do so? :?: Sheeple can be easily swayed by a good orator, it seems, and what is said doesn't even have to be true.... history does repeat, doesn't it? :shock:

 

[JasperL]

me or you?

I see you are having more problems with reading comprehension. :roll:

I am curious why you won't address the obvious related issue of pollution with regard to fossil fuels. Do you think there are no costs to the pollution or that the costs are fairly priced into the cost of the products, or that it's simply better to offload those costs onto the public and therefore continue to subsidize fossil fuels by privatizing profits and socializing those externalities - dirty air, water, toxic waste, sickness, early deaths.

 

[bubbabgone]

Jim Jones comes immediately to mind, unfortunately. It is said that he was extremely delusional because of drug use, but what excuse can be made for those 900+ that commited suicide because he told them to do so? :?: Sheeple can be easily swayed by a good orator, it seems, and what is said doesn't even have to be true.... history does repeat, doesn't it? :shock:

You're dancing around it, Pol ... spit it out.

 

[JasperL]

Jim Jones comes immediately to mind, unfortunately. It is said that he was extremely delusional because of drug use, but what excuse can be made for those 900+ that commited suicide because he told them to do so? :?: Sheeple can be easily swayed by a good orator, it seems, and what is said doesn't even have to be true.... history does repeat, doesn't it? :shock:

I guess it never occurs to you all that the sheeple might be the deniers. :roll:

 

[bubbabgone]

I see you are having more problems with reading comprehension. :roll:

I am curious why you won't address the obvious related issue of pollution with regard to fossil fuels. Do you think there are no costs to the pollution or that the costs are fairly priced into the cost of the products, or that it's simply better to offload those costs onto the public and therefore continue to subsidize fossil fuels by privatizing profits and socializing those externalities - dirty air, water, toxic waste, sickness, early deaths.

CO2 isn't pollution.
There are methods in use or available to mitigate actual pollutants from burning fossil fuels.

 

[bubbabgone]

I guess it never occurs to you all that the sheeple might be the deniers. :roll:

Since that wasn't a private message I can address it ... The deniers don't have the pulpit.

 

[JasperL]

Forcing people to pay more for energy consumption will not make the problem go away. People will find ways to get around it. That is not a solution (assuming of course that all this warming is even caused by people and not part of a natural cycle).

They're simple taxes to administer because there are a relative handful of producers/distributors of the VAST majority of fossil fuels. So people won't find ways around it except to use something not taxed as fuel. So if the solution to a problem (pollution or CO2) is to burn less fossil fuels, carbon taxes will work to accomplish that goal.

 

[JasperL]

Since that wasn't a private message I can address it ... The deniers don't have the pulpit.

LOL at that first part. Of course you can, happens every hour of every day on here, and always has. You have 11.000 posts, so you know this better than most.

 

[Montecresto]

I just couldn't bring myself to read it.

Nobody links anything from Michael Moore, that wants to be take serious. His documentaries have more fiction than his movies. I like Canadian bacon:

Oh for Christ's sake, you got it from the Weekly Standard too. He made the comment in a speech at a university, there's a dozen sources quoting him. Proven wrong on your assertion that Moore was lying, you changed the goal line. Since Hagel did say it, it now has to be dismissed as the position of a liberal. :roll:

And here, just to satisfy you that there's bi-partisan agreement on the fact that our ME policies are driven by oil, you have this.......

The man once regarded as the world's most powerful banker has bluntly declared that the Iraq war was 'largely' about oil.
Appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1987 and retired last year after serving four presidents, Alan Greenspan has been the leading Republican economist for a generation and his utterings instantly moved world markets.

Greenspan admits Iraq was about oil, as deaths put at 1.2m | World news | The Guardian

 

[polgara]

You're dancing around it, Pol ... spit it out.

:lamo: No need to waste my time typing; there are too many other examples that could be cited, starting from ancient history right on up to the present day. This may explain why so many "false flags" are believable at the time they are used, since fear is a good tactic to use for propaganda purposes...

 

[JasperL]

CO2 isn't pollution.

Obviously irrelevant to my point. Not sure why you keep bringing up this obvious straw man/red herring.

There are methods in use or available to mitigate actual pollutants from burning fossil fuels.

Correct, such as burn fewer of them. And what reduces NON-CO2 pollution will also in almost every case also reduce the other types of pollution.

 

[bubbabgone]

LOL at that first part. Of course you can, happens every hour of every day on here, and always has. You have 11.000 posts, so you know this better than most.

I know ... I talk way too much once I get going.

 

[bubbabgone]

Obviously irrelevant to my point. Not sure why you keep bringing up this obvious straw man/red herring.



Correct, such as burn fewer of them. And what reduces NON-CO2 pollution will also in almost every case also reduce the other types of pollution.

Great.
Glad that's settled.

 

[bubbabgone]

:lamo: No need to waste my time typing; there are too many other examples that could be cited, starting from ancient history right on up to the present day. This may explain why so many "false flags" are believable at the time they are used, since fear is a good tactic to use for propaganda purposes...

You big tease.

 

[Montecresto]

Greetings PoS. :2wave:

I've listened to both sides of the argument, and both sides have made valid points at times. If and when there is agreement, though, I'll do my best to comply. We aren't at that stage yet, though, and I resent those who attempt to railroad anything through just because it's on their agenda, and asking for legal means to silence anyone who disagrees is not only wrong, but insulting. Climate change has become politicized, and that's the problem, IMO.

To the bolded. Yep, and that too has been a bi-partisan effort. Don't think for one minute that this isn't a political issue for the right.

 

[Threegoofs]

And I would have thought that a lefty environmentalist would use logic and reason to convince me instead of ad homs. Silly me.

I learned a long time ago that when someone calls serous policy proposals 'propaganda' they are pretty refractory to logic and reason already.

You confirmed it by throwing out the term 'lefty environmentalist' without knowing anything except my position on a single topic.

 

[Montecresto]

I'm not going to source this past the liberal site conservapedia:

Chuck Hagel is known for being a liberal Republican. In December 2005, Hagel made a much-publicized statement: "I took an oath of office to the Constitution, I didn't take an oath of office to my party or my president." According to a SurveyUSA poll, Hagel has a 10% higher approval rating among Nebraska Democrats than Republicans.
​

Chuck Hagel - Conservapedia

Is that suppose to be a criticism of Hagel. So he puts the constitution above his Republican Party and the Nebraska democrats respect him for it but it diminishes him in the eyes of Nebraskan republicans. Typical partisan bull****.

 

[Threegoofs]

I'm learning from informed sources that it's all that exhalation we've been doing.

The post in which bubba shows where he is on the learning curve of AGW.

 

[polgara]

I guess it never occurs to you all that the sheeple might be the deniers. :roll:

Greetings, JasperL. :2wave:

Nah, sheeple never question what they hear - they just believe what they are told. I suggest that may be why a new word has been added to the English language that was never heard before, but is commonly used to identify people today - "Grubers."

 

[Montecresto]

I dont really see how a carbon tax is gonna somehow reverse the warming trend...

If the proceeds are spent on efforts to reduce carbon emissions, why not? (I realize that's a big if, but)

 

[JasperL]

Oh for Christ's sake, you got it from the Weekly Standard too. He made the comment in a speech at a university, there's a dozen sources quoting him. Proven wrong on your assertion that Moore was lying, you changed the goal line. Since Hagel did say it, it now has to be dismissed as the position of a liberal. :roll:

And here, just to satisfy you that there's bi-partisan agreement on the fact that our ME policies are driven by oil, you have this.......

The man once regarded as the world's most powerful banker has bluntly declared that the Iraq war was 'largely' about oil.
Appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1987 and retired last year after serving four presidents, Alan Greenspan has been the leading Republican economist for a generation and his utterings instantly moved world markets.

Greenspan admits Iraq was about oil, as deaths put at 1.2m | World news | The Guardian

This is the quote and it's just obviously correct in every respect:

'I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil.'

 

[Threegoofs]

Oh for Christ's sake, you got it from the Weekly Standard too. He made the comment in a speech at a university, there's a dozen sources quoting him. Proven wrong on your assertion that Moore was lying, you changed the goal line. Since Hagel did say it, it now has to be dismissed as the position of a liberal. :roll:

And here, just to satisfy you that there's bi-partisan agreement on the fact that our ME policies are driven by oil, you have this.......

The man once regarded as the world's most powerful banker has bluntly declared that the Iraq war was 'largely' about oil.
Appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1987 and retired last year after serving four presidents, Alan Greenspan has been the leading Republican economist for a generation and his utterings instantly moved world markets.

Greenspan admits Iraq was about oil, as deaths put at 1.2m | World news | The Guardian

If you think he's dishonest about this, you should read his posts on AGW!

 

[Montecresto]

First you absolutely must accept that you are the cause of warming.

No you don't, you only have to accept your contribution to it.

 

[PoS]

They're simple taxes to administer because there are a relative handful of producers/distributors of the VAST majority of fossil fuels. So people won't find ways around it except to use something not taxed as fuel. So if the solution to a problem (pollution or CO2) is to burn less fossil fuels, carbon taxes will work to accomplish that goal.

They wont accomplish anything except create more red tape- you cant tax your way out of this because as I said people will get around it either with a black market or they will take their business to another country that doesnt have it, lets not even account for subsidies and exemptions which will no doubt be taken advantaged of as well...

The only way the world will burn less fossil fuels is when people invent a new energy source that doesnt burn fossil fuels and is as efficient. People stopped hunting whales for their oil when they realized they could drill it from the ground- it wasnt animal rights and conservationists who saved the whales- it was the oil barons and wildcats who did.

 

[polgara]

To the bolded. Yep, and that too has been a bi-partisan effort. Don't think for one minute that this isn't a political issue for the right.

Of course it is - why bother otherwise? It works for both parties, you know. :mrgreen: