A Discussion With An Actual Socialist

[Geoist]

David Pakman recently had a great discussion with Vaush on socialism, fascism, the alt-right, media, cancel culture, etc. The whole thing is enlightening and I couldn't help but nod my head throughout the conversation. To be clear, Vaush is the socialist, specifically a libertarian-socialist (which is distinct from the statist-socialism popular culture and the media hyper-focuses on). The video is 30 minutes but well worth the listen.

 

[NatMorton]

Ten minutes into the discussion it really felt like I had been listening to a neo-Luddite interview a member of the Flat Earth society.

 

[Geoist]

Ten minutes into the discussion it really felt like I had been listening to a neo-Luddite interview a member of the Flat Earth society.

Hmm, a neo-luddite. That is an ironic comparison considering the central platform for their shows is the internet.

 

[aociswundumho]

David Pakman recently had a great discussion with Vaush on socialism, fascism, the alt-right, media, cancel culture, etc. The whole thing is enlightening and I couldn't help but nod my head throughout the conversation. To be clear, Vaush is the socialist, specifically a libertarian-socialist (which is distinct from the statist-socialism popular culture and the media hyper-focuses on). The video is 30 minutes but well worth the listen.

Yet at 2:32 he supports Biden's plans regarding climate change and healthcare, so he definitely approves of the commonly accepted definition of socialism.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

David Pakman recently had a great discussion with Vaush on socialism, fascism, the alt-right, media, cancel culture, etc. The whole thing is enlightening and I couldn't help but nod my head throughout the conversation. To be clear, Vaush is the socialist, specifically a libertarian-socialist (which is distinct from the statist-socialism popular culture and the media hyper-focuses on). The video is 30 minutes but well worth the listen.

Before I watch this....Vaush????
Isn't Vaush the owner of this forum?

 

[AmNat]

David Pakman recently had a great discussion with Vaush on socialism, fascism, the alt-right, media, cancel culture, etc. The whole thing is enlightening and I couldn't help but nod my head throughout the conversation. To be clear, Vaush is the socialist, specifically a libertarian-socialist (which is distinct from the statist-socialism popular culture and the media hyper-focuses on). The video is 30 minutes but well worth the listen.

Is this the guy who defends child porn?

 

[aociswundumho]

To be clear, Vaush is the socialist, specifically a libertarian-socialist (which is distinct from the statist-socialism popular culture and the media hyper-focuses on).

At about 9:45 the interviewer asks him if he would impose socialism by force. In his convoluted answer, he compares business owners to slave owners, and calls the battle with them to be the "ultimate conflict". That means concentration camps, mass executions, and killing fields, just like any other socialist.

 

[Geoist]

Yet at 2:32 he supports Biden's plans regarding climate change and healthcare, so he definitely approves of the commonly accepted definition of socialism.

It's called pragmatism vs idealism. We already discussed this, aoc.

 

[Geoist]

Before I watch this....Vaush????
Isn't Vaush the owner of this forum?

That would be something, but I doubt it's the same person.

 

[iguanaman]

At about 9:45 the interviewer asks him if he would impose socialism by force. In his convoluted answer, he compares business owners to slave owners, and calls the battle with them to be the "ultimate conflict". That means concentration camps, mass executions, and killing fields, just like any other socialist.

Or we could just put back the confiscatory tax rates of the 1950's on high earners. That seemed to work just fine. The coddling of the "job creators" must end one way or another. It's unsustainable.

 

[digitusmedius]

Yet at 2:32 he supports Biden's plans regarding climate change and healthcare, so he definitely approves of the commonly accepted definition of socialism.

Promise us now to refuse to accept (or stop taking if you've already started) your Medicare and Social Security benefits as they are socialism by your definition. And don't try that "I paid into it, I'm gonna take it" because that's cowardly and dishonest since you just want to deprive future generations from something that you don't have the decency to refuse on a principle which you really don't follow. .

 

[Geoist]

Is this the guy who defends child porn?

He was talking about the hypocrisy of how society allows us to buy computers with components mined by slaves. If you buy/download child porn you are supporting the sexual abuse/exploitation of children. But when you buy a computer, how is that not also supporting the exploitation of others? While I don't totally agree with Vaush's conclusion (I think there is more nuance than that), I totally understand it and see the merit of the argument.

 

[digitusmedius]

At about 9:45 the interviewer asks him if he would impose socialism by force. In his convoluted answer, he compares business owners to slave owners, and calls the battle with them to be the "ultimate conflict". That means concentration camps, mass executions, and killing fields, just like any other socialist.

Hysteria alert. In fact, every one of that one's comments needs to be labeled as such at the top.

 

[Geoist]

At about 9:45 the interviewer asks him if he would impose socialism by force. In his convoluted answer, he compares business owners to slave owners, and calls the battle with them to be the "ultimate conflict". That means concentration camps, mass executions, and killing fields, just like any other socialist.

You just went from Vaush describing a conflict between two groups and jumped to the conclusion that he advocates concentration camps and mass executions. That is just ridiculous.

 

[digitusmedius]

He was talking about the hypocrisy of how society allows us to buy computers with components mined by slaves. If you buy/download child porn you are supporting the sexual abuse/exploitation of children. But when you buy a computer, how is that not also supporting the exploitation of others? While I don't totally agree with Vaush's conclusion (I think there is more nuance than that), I totally understand it and see the merit of the argument.

You're trying to actually have a rational adult discussion when at least half the people here are throwing their predictable rightwing pre-school propaganda tantrum. We can't ever have nice things when all they do is smear their feces all over the place.

 

[eohrnberger]

Or we could just put back the confiscatory tax rates of the 1950's on high earners. That seemed to work just fine. The coddling of the "job creators" must end one way or another. It's unsustainable.

Is the world, the US economy, the required workforce skillsets the same as it was in the 1950's?

 

[Geoist]

You're trying to actually have a rational adult discussion when at least half the people here are throwing their predictable rightwing pre-school propaganda tantrum. We can't ever have nice things when all they do is smear their feces all over the place.

I agree. But I do think such an inflammatory accusation needs to be addressed at least for the rest of the DP community reading this thread.

 

[Geoist]

Is the world, the US economy, the required workforce skillsets the same as it was in the 1950's?

Nope. We keep lowering the tax rate and the corporations keep outsourcing. Do you seriously think we can compete with Vietnamese when it comes to pay/benefits?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

That would be something, but I doubt it's the same person.

It might be me being an ignoramus, which wouldn"t be surprising.
Is Vaush a famous name related to some well known figure "in song and legend" that I am simply not aware of?
I thought it was a unique name that only had something to do with DP.
I did not realize that there are multiple Vaushes running around!
So, is "Vaush" almost like calling someone "gangsta"?

 

[Geoist]

It might be me being an ignoramus, which wouldn"t be surprising.
Is Vaush a famous name related to some well known figure "in song and legend" that I am simply not aware of?
I thought it was a unique name that only had something to do with DP.
I did not realize that there are multiple Vaushes running around!
So, is "Vaush" almost like calling someone "gangsta"?

All I know is this particular Vaush said he got it from a character he created so years ago.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

All I know is this particular Vaush said he got it from a character he created so years ago.

LOL, well you know more than I do!
I thought I was watching the owner of Debate Politics!
I was a bit confused because I thought he was a libertarian on the Right but I kept saying to myself, "Well, he is entitled to believe what he wants and if this is what he believes, alrighty-then."
I was surprised that he was chummy with David Pakman, but hey, anything's possible.
I was chummy with some famous rock stars! - - - when they were still alive.

 

[eohrnberger]

Nope. We keep lowering the tax rate and the corporations keep outsourcing. Do you seriously think we can compete with Vietnamese when it comes to pay/benefits?

And you believe that significantly hiking taxes on corporations is going to motivate them to keep their workforces here in the US?
If anything it would be a motivator for them move their workforces offshore, which we've already witnessed.
Wouldn't that be a logical conclusion from the recent history that we've witnessed?

 

[MrPeanut]

I like David Pakman. He drains a lot of the emotion out of politics and prefers to talk policy for the most part.

 

[Geoist]

And you believe that significantly hiking taxes on corporations is going to motivate them to keep their workforces here in the US?

Depends on the tax. If we placed a significant tax on American companies shipping their product back to the USA then that may help balance the scales. Isn't that kind of what your Dear Leader proposed against China?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

This guy is a socialist the way Penn Jillette is a libertarian.
I used to think Jilette was this hardcore Ayn Rand slurping iconoclast type who had a rigid school of thought on the whole LP boilerplate and dogma. But Penn Jilette, upon further inspection, reveals himself to be a pragmatist first and foremost. Yeah sure, he would like to have a lot more libertarianism but what he really wants most is stability, security, prosperity, growth and harmony.

I like the way he put it a few months back when he said that his overarching quest is to always ask,
"If this is how we're going to do this, then fine but I want to know if there are ways to go about this with less government, more freedom and less taxes. If there isn't, then fine but if there is, we should explore it."

Who can argue with that?
Even as a lefty I can't find fault with that. He just wants to see if it possible to implement a libertarian approach and to see if the libertarian view jives with the overall nuts and bolts of governance wherever possible. That's no different than the New Deal folks looking for ways to let Uncle Sam adopt a more egalitarian approach to capitalism wherever possible.

If we look for common ground, I'm sure we can find plenty of it.