75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the U.S

sazerac · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

We'd have laughed at these questions by 5th or 6th grade.

But so would my nephews who are in high school. I think most students know who the first president was.

RightinNYC · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Bootsavich said:
Out of fairness, it would be extremely helpful if somebody had a list of the percentage of students that take each respective test by state. States with a lower percentage of students taking a test are more likely to have higher scores, especially when this is not the norm. This is due to the fact that SAT and ACT tests are not a random sampling, they are comprised of the most motivated and academically prepared students among their peers. When students take the SAT in an ACT dominated region, this would mean they are appealing to schools outside that region- often times private schools in the northeast or larger state schools out west. And if you want to link politics in, those eastern private schools tend to have top notch programs in poli sci, humanities, and business, programs that rely more upon history than larger state schools, which tend to have a bigger balance with science and engineering programs.

This is all completely true. The links with those numbers are provided toward the beginning of the thread, but as you point out, it's almost impossible to put the two together and come out with a comparable conclusion.

PogueMoran said:
Well when you read from maps like this it's no surprise.

If watching fox (which once made a foolish gaffe re: map) means that the viewers are all dumb, then I guess that watching MSNBC (which once made a foolish gaffe re: name) means the viewers are all racist.

Right?

Panache · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Even fewer seem to know who the first Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico was. Its a sad state of affairs I tell you.

Coronado · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Panache said:
Even fewer seem to know who the first Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico was. Its a sad state of affairs I tell you.

PogueMoran · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

RightinNYC said:
This is all completely true. The links with those numbers are provided toward the beginning of the thread, but as you point out, it's almost impossible to put the two together and come out with a comparable conclusion.

If watching fox (which once made a foolish gaffe re: map) means that the viewers are all dumb, then I guess that watching MSNBC (which once made a foolish gaffe re: name) means the viewers are all racist.

Right?

That's not what my statement said. I was making a joke about the map. But if you want to play the MSNBC/Fox gaffe lets not forget about Mark Foley being a democrat and another. You do know the guy's name is Niger Innis the double G being a mistake albeit an understandable one. Calling Iraq, Iran is more than a gaffe. The point being I was making a joke about Maps and you turned it racial

cmckinney · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

apdst said:
Does anyone else notice that they are the whitest states in the country?

How racist of you to say such an offensive thing! To suggest that white people score higher on standardized testing is an awful (and completely correct) thing to say!:mrgreen:

Coronado · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

cmckinney said:
How racist of you to say such an offensive thing! To suggest that white people score higher on standardized testing is an awful (and completely correct) thing to say!:mrgreen:

It's also factually incorrect. But carry on with your delusions.

cmckinney · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Coronado said:
It's also factually incorrect. But carry on with your delusions.

I'm sorry? Are you suggesting that different ethnicity do not score differently on average on standardized testing scores?

SAT Ethnic Group Scores

American Indian---482/480 (962)
Asian American-----575/508 (1083)
African American-----426/431 (857)
Puerto Rican----457/448 (905)
Other Hispanic----464/457 (921)
White-----534/529 (1063)
Other ----513/501 (1014)

Average ACT Composite Score by Race

African American ----16.9
American Indian---18.7
Caucasian---- 21.7
Mexican American----18.3
Asian American---- 21.8
Hispanic----19.0
Other ----19.3
Multiracial-----20.9
Prefer Not to Respond -----21.8
No Response-----20.1

Coronado · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

cmckinney said:
I'm sorry? Are you suggesting that different ethnicity do not score differently on average on standardized testing scores?

SAT Ethnic Group Scores

American Indian---482/480 (962)
Asian American-----575/508 (1083)
African American-----426/431 (857)
Puerto Rican----457/448 (905)
Other Hispanic----464/457 (921)
White-----534/529 (1063)
Other ----513/501 (1014)

Average ACT Composite Score by Race

African American ----16.9
American Indian---18.7
Caucasian---- 21.7
Mexican American----18.3
Asian American---- 21.8
Hispanic----19.0
Other ----19.3
Multiracial-----20.9
Prefer Not to Respond -----21.8
No Response-----20.1

No, I'm suggesting that Caucasians aren't the ones scoring the highest.

See what happens when you make assumptions?

cmckinney · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Coronado said:
No, I'm suggesting that Caucasians aren't the ones scoring the highest.

See what happens when you make assumptions?

I never said they were scoring the highest. That was a false assumption you made. I said they were scoring higher and by that I meant higher than the average minority. Asians may score higher, yes, but they only account for a little more than 4% of the population. Whites, on the other hand, account for more than 70% of the population. So when it comes down to it, yes Asian students make an impact on the average score, but Whites obviously have a greater one.

Coronado · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

cmckinney said:
I never said they were scoring the highest. That was a false assumption you made. I said they were scoring higher and by that I meant higher than the average minority. Asians may score higher, yes, but they only account for a little more than 4% of the population. Whites, on the other hand, account for more than 70% of the population. So when it comes down to it, yes Asian students make an impact on the average score, but Whites obviously have a greater one.

:rofl

Great save ...

cmckinney · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Coronado said:
:rofl

Great save ...

Do you have something to actually say? Please, point out where you think I originally erred and was forced to make up for it. Or just admit that you misread what I had originally posted.

Coronado · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

cmckinney said:
Do you have something to actually say? Please, point out where you think I originally erred and was forced to make up for it. Or just admit that you misread what I had originally posted.

I'm not interested in arguing your doublespeak with you. Semantic gymnastics bore me.

Sorry to get your little hopes up.

cmckinney · Sep 21, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

First Thought · Sep 22, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Bootsavich said:
Off topic, but would the continental congress be considered a past government of our current nation? I guess I always though of that period as a transitional authority, and that the history of the (current) U.S. didn't start until after the revolution and the United States was recognized abroad. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

I would agree with you.

First Thought · Sep 22, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Coronado said:
I'm not interested in arguing your doublespeak with you. Semantic gymnastics bore me.

Sorry to get your little hopes up.

Good call. Feeding noobs is never safe.

obvious Child · Sep 22, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Again, since when did SAT scores measure intelligence?

As for the other notion of kids being otherwise ignorant, fact regurgitation won't get you far in life (unless you're a professional Jeopardy player, but that guy is a nerd). The real failure of schools and students is getting kids to learn to critically think. Facts by themselves are mush. And mush is no good.

scourge99 · Sep 22, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

JakeFromWI said:
See it at 75 Percent of Oklahoma Students Can't Name the First President.

This real folks, and no one seems to mind....

The majority of Americans are against health care reform you say?

The majority of Americans don't know who George Washington is either...

I got a kick out of this anectode regarding the students in one of the most conservative states in America as well:

"About 92 percent of the people who take the citizenship test pass on their first try, according to immigration service data. However, Oklahoma students did not fare as well. Only about 3 percent of the students surveyed would have passed the citizenship test."

11 percent also thought the two major political parties in the US were Communists and Republicans. Source: Here

I haven't finished inventing a robot to take over all the menial labor and mindless jobs so I don't see this as a problem..... for now.:mrgreen:

RightinNYC · Sep 22, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

obvious Child said:
Again, since when did SAT scores measure intelligence?

As for the other notion of kids being otherwise ignorant, fact regurgitation won't get you far in life (unless you're a professional Jeopardy player, but that guy is a nerd). The real failure of schools and students is getting kids to learn to critically think. Facts by themselves are mush. And mush is no good.

If people didn't prep for the SAT, it would actually be a very good test of intelligence.

obvious Child · Sep 22, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

RightinNYC said:
If people didn't prep for the SAT, it would actually be a very good test of intelligence.

Maybe. That depends how you define intelligence. Remember that the SAT is still very much an aptitude test. That does not measure how inherently smart you are. Award winning author Amy Tan did awful on her SAT's vocab. IMO, that kind of standardized testing is highly overrated. I understand why schools use it (and I didn't do so bad myself, but that was a long time ago), but it is a poor measure of a student's intelligence.

As for not prepping, you won't believe how many of my classmates (including myself) completely blew off the PSAT (much to the chagrin of our parents, but what do you expect from 10 graders?). And our actual real scores weren't that far off from our non-prepared PSAT score. But then again, I went to a decent pre-school, so that does bias things quite a bit.

I would be interested in seeing random SAT like tests held at public schools.

One reason why Asian scores generally are so high is that many Asian parents (note, many, not all, I know plenty that are awful in terms of how they view education) view education as mandatory even to the point where some joke that you can't stop till you have at least a master's. Therefore, it is logical to conclude they'd spent the money and cash to prep their kids. Are their kids any smarter? I doubt it. Are their kids more prepared for a single test? Yes. And it shows.

apdst · Sep 22, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

Bootsavich said:
Off topic, but would the continental congress be considered a past government of our current nation? I guess I always though of that period as a transitional authority, and that the history of the (current) U.S. didn't start until after the revolution and the United States was recognized abroad. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

United States history started on 10 November 1775.

Gill · Sep 22, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

PogueMoran said:
That's not what my statement said. I was making a joke about the map. But if you want to play the MSNBC/Fox gaffe lets not forget about Mark Foley being a democrat and another. You do know the guy's name is Niger Innis the double G being a mistake albeit an understandable one. Calling Iraq, Iran is more than a gaffe. The point being I was making a joke about Maps and you turned it racial

Calling Iraq, Iran ??????

You are joking, right?

RightinNYC · Sep 22, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

PogueMoran said:
You do know the guy's name is Niger Innis the double G being a mistake albeit an understandable one. Calling Iraq, Iran is more than a gaffe.

MSNBC makes a 1 letter mistake = understandable gaffe, no problem.
Fox makes a 1 letter mistake = OMG so dumbz!

PogueMoran · Sep 22, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

RightinNYC said:
MSNBC makes a 1 letter mistake = understandable gaffe, no problem.
Fox makes a 1 letter mistake = OMG so dumbz!

One denotes a typo. The other denotes a lack of geographical knowledge. Its easy to screw up the guys name. Now Iran and Iraq the ending letter is spread apart on the keyboard. Not knowing the difference on a map is pretty bad. It takes actual effort to mislabel a map

Fiddytree · Sep 22, 2009

Re: 75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the

PogueMoran said:
One denotes a typo. The other denotes a lack of geographical knowledge. Its easy to screw up the guys name. Now Iran and Iraq the ending letter is spread apart on the keyboard. Not knowing the difference on a map is pretty bad. It takes actual effort to mislabel a map

Why?

If you screw up someone's name like that, I could say it "denotes a lack of racial sensitivity" and that it "takes actual effort to mislabel a name to the severity of a racial slur".

Both are typos, yet to suit our silly purposes we grant such likely simple errors immense amounts of power. How often have you done something similar with regard to Iran or Iraq or any other object or word with similar spellings? I bet it was often enough.

75 Percent of Oklahoma High School Students Can't Name the First President of the U.S

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