Navy Pride
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
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- Political Leaning
- Very Conservative
So the 73 that got arrested were engaging in public debate?
No my take is that OWS is a Leftist movement that wants us to hate the bourgeoisie so that we will do their dirty work for them. And that those 73 arrested wanted to be arrested, so that they can claim police brutality to use in their propaganda to recruit more people. They are under the illusion that they can slowly turn America Leftist.Is that your take?
So...what exactly are you 'fighting back' against? You pretty steamed at those multimillionaires in the democrat party...musicians...athletes...all those folks? Say you want a 'revolution'? Who has 'oppressed' you? Which rich man has stole your nickels and dimes? Which 'man' is keeping you down?
No my take is that OWS is a Leftist movement that wants us to hate the bourgeoisie so that we will do their dirty work for them. And that those 73 arrested wanted to be arrested, so that they can claim police brutality to use in their propaganda to recruit more people. They are under the illusion that they can slowly turn America Leftist.
the hydra-headed Tea party movement has many different ideas on what they want. Much like the occupy movement. In fact you could say publicly both movements are leaderless. Neither have an definitive leader. There are leaders but with such different opinions floating around it would be impossible for either movement to get behind one leader on each side. Both movements are ground work operations to spread their propaganda. Both strategics are looking to the future and what can be done after the education process as trained enough idiots to have a voting base.
Many on the Right are using religion to gain power. Hence the insistence that only true Americans are Christians.
News flash the problem with the country today is the Republicans, Democrats, Leftist radicals and Rightist radicals.
ANd here is what is sad, the Republicans have failed to muster anyone for the presidential race. Unfortunately come November Obama a president that is one of the worst in history will be reelected because the Republicans could only find radicals to run against him. Hell there are still idiots running around crying that Obama is not an American. Meanwhile Obamacare will run its course because the Republicans failed to do anything meaningful in 4 years. Meanwhile the Tea party are running around saying crazy **** like we are an Christian nation and denying the Separation of church and state. ANd when you call them on the obvious (as if no one knows their intent) they claim that they do not want an theocracy. Which in turn is just is just like the Occupiers running around saying that they only want to stop the bourgeoisie (1%) to stop using the so called Proletariat (99%) as slaves. While obviously since its all over the OWS sites and their signs that they aim for an take over. So no that is not my take
Really, who fights anything these days? Someone gets pissed at something and instead of protesting, they write a blog. Take that! LOL!
I like rich people. Hell, I'm working my ass off trying to get rich myself. My problem is the system that is in place is tilted towards the already rich and the snowball effect of the rich getting richer allows some who work no harder than others to take too much water from the well. I wish we could nip the system that allowed 34% of my retirement to get sucked away while the same system rewarded the baffoons who were behind it million dollar bonuses.
But I know you guys think that's awesome. I just disagree. But I don't have time to protest and fight. I have to go to work.
The rich aren't doing anything wrong, it's the government,. It always has been.
People don't trust politicians or the bureaucracy but they are still willing to bet their health and their futures on government and, the real pity is, they insist others do so as well.
This is insane and eventually everyone will suffer. The rich will only watch from a respectable distance.
Yeah, the government is the one who has failed to properly regulate corporate greed. You're right.
I don't blame them for sticking it up our collective asses when they can not only technically get away with it legally, but be rewarded and even praised for doing it by a significant portion of the voting public.
There is only so much pie.
Greed cannot be regulated. That cliche should be dropped.
I have no idea who is sticking it up any ass nor who is praising or being praised for this action.
That's not so, and the rest of your post is illogical because of that basic error.
Yu are actually making my point for me. Many of the Occupiers view there movement the same that you just described the Tea Party movement. In fact I have been told the exact same thing before by occupiers. Including the dire prediction at the end.They have already turned America strongly to the left over the last generation and it became inevitable when the left took over the universities and the media.. I agree with you that this protest is just a front.
The Tea Party ambitions are more straightforward. They believe in the values of traditional America while the OWS appear to have little idea what traditional America even is.
I think that's really overstating the case. There are many in the middle who just want responsible government.
The middle, as usual, will decide the presidency but with the erosion of state rights, the enmeshed bureaucracy, the debt and the impossible entitlement programs, I doubt it will now make much difference. There will be a clashes, they will start in earnest this summer, and they will continue for a number of years. I'm not sure the republic can be saved.
I'm trying to work with you here Grant. I don't know how I could have made my opinions any more understandable.
Further, after reading several of your posts, I see no intellectual highground you possess to be judging anyones logic.
Just sayin.....
Yu are actually making my point for me.
Well I agree with many of your points.
Unlike the Teaparty and the Ocuppiers I actually believe in the power of our Constitution to govern this country
It's a great constitution and feel other countries should have adopted it as their own. It should be a source of inspiration everywhere. But it is always at the risk of being undermined and that seems to have been happening for a while now by Presidents and judges who feel they know better, or who follow the fashions of the day,
Not saying that it wont take work but I am not going to just throw my hands up in pessimism.
Movements like the Tea party and the occupy movement only create conflict in an inorganic march to do doomsday. Which in the end is what both radical groups want. They believe that their version of America will grow up out of the ashes. But just like in every election they underestimate American patriotism and the fact that it defies party lines.
I sincerely hope there are more Americans like you who share that attitude.
I understand you have strong opinions but feel you' appear to be just letting your rage out rather than getting into specifics about what people can actually do to change things, something that could unite people into a common cause.
We can see people protesting from every direction but it all seems incoherent, just a strong and general dissatisfaction.
What do you think can be done to turn things around? What are the top three issues in your mind?
Rage? Dude, I just got a brand new mercury outboard today. I'm happier than a pig wallowing is ****!
I just know we can't depend on the GOP for any assistance as their voting base, by all appearances, prefers things to be business as usual and let the little man eat ****. I can't look towards the democrats for any solutions as they are so crooked they have to screw their shoes on each morning.
I probably wouldn't care as much if I hit the lottery or inherited a lot of old money. Money makes money. That's okay. But that should mean for everybody. While my money was being siphoned, the rich just got richer. Now I have less money to make money with. I worked very hard for that money too. Whatever made that possible, I want changed.
I just wish we could turn back the clock to the time when a man could go to work for 30 years, feed his family, retire next to a good fishin' hole. But there are forces at work that are making that American dream harder and harder to achieve.
And a lot of those folks can be seen wearing flag lapel pins manipulating the dumbed down masses with issues like homosexuals, birth control and anything else that will divert our attention away from their special interest cronies who have their hands in my pockets.
I am not a radical. I am not a raging lunatic. I am not illogical. I just want what's mine to stay mine. And I will vote for a republican or a democrat that I think is looking out for my interests.
They were breaking the law.
That's what civil disobedience means. Did you ever read about the Boston Tea Party, or the Civil Rights Movement, or the Vietnam war protests?
The Civil Rights movement was intended to be non violent, much like the Tea party in fact, just as its leader, Martin Luther King Jr., repeatedly said. His message and objectives were clear.
Yep, just like the Occupy movement across the country, and it was inspiring to see the Civil Rights Veterans express solidarity with the Occupy Movement:
Council of Elders - Occupy Wall Street - Statement of Solidarity
"As veterans of the Civil Rights, Women’s, Peace, Environmental, LGBTQ, Immigrant Justice, labor rights and other movements of the last 60 years we are convinced that Occupy Wall Street is a continuation, a deepening and expansion of the determination of the diverse peoples of our nation to transform our country into a more democratic, just and compassionate society—a more perfect union. We believe that the rapidly expanding and racialized impoverishment of our population, the rise of mass incarceration, the celebration of the culture of war and violence all create the bitter divisions among the peoples of our nation and throughout the world. Indeed, we believe such developments among us ultimately diminish the quality of life for all humanity, beginning with our own children who watch as we lower the priority for their care and education.
We applaud the miraculous extent to which the Occupy initiative has been non-violent and democratic, especially in light of the weight of violence under which the great majority of people are forced to live, including joblessness, foreclosures, unemployment, poverty, inadequate health care, etc. Among the Council of Elders, we place the highest value on the role of compassion and non-violent action in our personal and organizational lives. From that hard-won grounding in the humanizing movements of the 20th century we seek to support and join with Occupy Wall Street in contributing to the dreams and visions of many in this nation for a beloved community, a multi-generational, multi-racial, compassionate, democratic society with equality, liberty and justice for all—always searching for partners in the creation of a more peaceful, sustainable world, a world with living, loving and growing space for all of our children."
National Council of Elders
We are veterans of the Civil Rights, Women’s, Peace, Environmental, LGBTQ, Immigrant Justice, labor rights and other movements of the last 60 years.
That's what civil disobedience means. Did you ever read about the Boston Tea Party, or the Civil Rights Movement, or the Vietnam war protests?
Yep, just like the Occupy movement across the country, and it was inspiring to see the Civil Rights Veterans express solidarity with the Occupy Movement:
Council of Elders - Occupy Wall Street - Statement of Solidarity
The Council of Elders, a newly organized, independent group of leaders from many of the defining American social justice movements of the 20th century....
National Council of Elders
The term "social justice" is now commonly used by leftist activists, clergy, educators, judges, and politicians to describe the goal they seek to achieve with many of their policies. No precise definition of "social justice" is ever offered by the left. Instead, the term is always used in a vague way -- as if everyone already knows, or should know, what the seemingly well-intentioned phrase "social justice" means.
So, what exactly is "social justice"?
Social justice is the complete economic equality of all members of society. While this may sound like a lofty objective, what it really means is that wealth should be collected by the government and evenly distributed to everyone. In short, social justice is communism. It is rooted in the Marxist idea that the money people make and the property they own do not rightfully belong to the people who make the money and own the property.
Karl Marx's ultimate criticism of capitalism is its recognition of private property. The reason private property is so evil, Marx contended, is that it is a function of economic class warfare. In other words, "the rich" use the concept of private property to oppress "the poor." In order to understand this convoluted thought process, Marx's view of money must be examined, since money is the means by which private property is acquired.
According to Marx, money is really a "collective product" that belongs to everyone. His reasoning, as described in The Communist Manifesto, is that money can be made only "by the united action of all members of society." Factory owners, for example, cannot manufacture goods by themselves. Rather, the factory owners need workers to run the machines that produce goods. Consequently, in Marx's mind, when the manufactured good is sold, the worker has as much right to the proceeds of that sale as the factory owner does.
Archived-Articles: What Exactly Is 'Social Justice'?
Just for your edification, and education....
j-mac
lol Thats ok since it is also equated that "everyone on the right are Nazis."
I get what you are saying, but none the less many people on the Left equate the Right with Nazism as well. I would imagine it is because of that assumed relationship between the Right and Nazism that the Right is pointing out the word Socialist in Nazism. Of course the Left does not equate Communism anymore than the Right equates fascism. Which the Left started the fascism accusation because of the Communist accusations. Tit for tat. But thats how it goes when people slander each other. Both side are trying to assert that the other leads to worse things. Not necessarily that they are that bad now. Just that they have the potential to be bad. So the accusations go back and forth no matter what the reality is.Actually, in here it seems that the left are being on the defensive by regular delusional accusations that NAZIism is on the left along with communism simply because "socialism" is in the name of the Nationalist Socialist Party. And once it's in your name then it is a stone cold fact. Like Patriot Act. Must be very patriotic and the Democratic Republic of Korea meaning they are really a democratic republic and all.
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