695 Dead, 180 Hurt in Iraq Bridge Stampede (1 Viewer)

[KidRocks]

The dead include mostly women and children. Things are so bad in Iraq since President Bush decided to go on a little adventure and attack Saddam. Looks like the number of Iraqi's dying under President Bush's rule is rapidly approaching the numbers killed under Saddam watch. And the Iraqi's thought things would be vastly better with the removal of Saddam. Boy, were they sadly mistaken. :2no4:












http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050831/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_050831143538

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Panic engulfed thousands of Shiites marching across a bridge in a religious procession Wednesday after rumors spread that a suicide bomber was about to attack, triggering a stampede that killed at least 695 people. It was the single biggest confirmed loss of life in Iraq since the March 2003 invasion.

Scores jumped or were pushed to their deaths into the Tigris River, but many were crushed in the crowd, which had jammed up at a security checkpoint on the western side of the Azamiyah bridge. Most of the dead were women and children, Interior Ministry spokesman Lt. Col. Adnan Abdul-Rahman said.

Tensions already had been running high in the procession to the shrine in Baghdad's heavily Shiite Kazimiyah district because of a mortar attack two hours earlier against the site. The shrine was about a mile from the bridge.

Health Ministry spokesman Qassim Yahya said the casualty toll was 695 dead and 180 injured. Figures from other official sources varied somewhat because survivors were rushed in ambulances and private cars to many hospitals, and officials were scrambling to compile accurate casualty figures.

 

[gdalton]

How can this be blamed on Bush?

 

[KidRocks]

How can this be blamed on Bush?

Not blaming Bush on this one although a case could probably be built for one.

I'm just pointing out the fact that things are not going well in Iraq despite the massive American presence. Not well at all!

 

[gdalton]

There is a lot of good things going on over there along with the bad. It's going to take a lot of work to get things right, we need to help as much as possible and not leave the country the way it is.

 

[FinnMacCool]

You scared the **** out of me. I thought that was american soldiers killed. Not that it makes it any better thats horrible. Absolutely horrible. This just shows how scared these people are and thats not good for us either.

 

[KidRocks]

You scared the **** out of me. I thought that was american soldiers killed. Not that it makes it any better thats horrible. Absolutely horrible. This just shows how scared these people are and thats not good for us either.

Sorry, didn't mean to, but I used the same headline from the article.

695 dead American troops would be horrific news indeed, would just about end any chances for a safe and speedy withdrawal next year. It would also end the Republicans chances to hold on to congress and the White House.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Sorry, didn't mean to, but I used the same headline from the article.

695 dead American troops would be horrific news indeed, would just about end any chances for a safe and speedy withdrawal next year. It would also end the Republicans chances to hold on to congress and the White House.

I don't want to offend anyone but how do you judge life and how affected do you get by it? Because it is natural for you Americans to care more for Americans as it is for me as a Swed to care more for Sweds then other also as a european I care generelly more for Americans then Africans and Iraqies, even if evry life is worth the same.

But hhe problem I think is then you came to things like wars started by you Americans and how you will judge the cost of those wars. For example the vietnam war there I think over one million civilians got killed but there USA didn't think the cost was to high before 50000 Americans was killed.

I talking about but the decision made before and during the war. Like for example that 100 hundred american soldiers would lead to a much more deep and intense debate then 600 deads civilians. And that is bad because in this kind of war that America started it was a gamble of lifes like evry war. And there you have considered the importance of the Iraqies civilians life both because compared to the american didn't signed up to the risk of getting killed and also that it was Americans that throwed the dices. That if you gamble with lifes you need a good and fair debate of the cost of those lifes, ecpecially then you make the decision for the people like the Iraqies.

 

[FinnMacCool]

Your right Bergs and no your not be offensive its true. But I do know some people over there and so something like that is much more scary then civillians dying though if I was Iraqi, it would have been really bad for me.

But I do recognize that its a horrible event and I think these types of things are gonna get americans to find the truth.

 

[scottyz]

More than 800 dead in Iraq

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050831/wl_nm/iraq_dc_25;_ylt=AnAaa3MwE9NuQX2ih14huptX6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - More than 800 Iraqi Shi'ites died in a stampede over a Baghdad bridge provoked by rumours of a suicide bomber on Wednesday, and an official said the death toll was expected to reach 1,000.
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The swarming crowds had been heading to a religious ceremony at the Kadhimiya mosque in the old district of north Baghdad when someone shouted there was a suicide bomber among them, a police source said.

"Hundreds of people started running and some threw themselves off the bridge into the river," the source said.

 

[cnredd]

[Moderator mode]

Merged these threads...

Same story, different numbers...

[/Moderator mode]

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Not blaming Bush on this one although a case could probably be built for one.

I'm just pointing out the fact that things are not going well in Iraq despite the massive American presence. Not well at all!

Sounded like you did to me... Are you so desperate you blame this on the President? How utterly pathetic. These people have the mentallity of cattle and thats anyones fault but there own? MOOOOOOOOO right off a cliff

 

[DivineComedy]

These people have the mentallity of cattle and thats anyones fault but there own? MOOOOOOOOO right off a cliff

How do you know that those people support suicide bombers dressed in civilian disguise in violation of the rules of warfare?

The people responsible for this are:

1) Those terrorists that deliberately targeted a religious shrine in violation of the Geneva Convention rules of warfare, in that Iraq is a High Contracting Party;

2) Saddam’s supporters that were supporting suicide bombings before the war in violations of the rules of warfare and the cease-fire obligations under international laws:

“March 5, 2003: Bus bombing in Haifa. U.S. citizens killed: Abigail Leitel, 14, who was born in Lebanon, New Hampshire.” http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/usvictims.html

“The suicide bomber was 20 years old, a student of the Hebron Polytechnic University (from which a large number of suicide bombers have emerged) and a member of the Hamas terrorist organization.” http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/861590/posts

March 13, 2003: “(CBS) Saddam Hussein has distributed $260,000 to 26 families of Palestinians killed in 29 months of fighting with Israel, including a $10,000 check to the family of a Hamas suicide bomber.

In a packed banquet hall on Wednesday, the families came one-by-one to receive their $10,000 checks. A large banner said: ‘The Arab Baath Party Welcomes the Families of the Martyrs for the Distribution of Blessings of Saddam Hussein.’“ http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/14/world/main543981.shtml

“Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution, including the obligations on Iraq contained therein,” http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/11/08/resolution.text/

“H
32. Requires Iraq to inform the Security Council that it will not commit or support any act of international terrorism or allow any organization directed towards commission of such acts to operate within its territory and to condemn unequivocally and renounce all acts, methods and practices of terrorism;
I
33. Declares that, upon official notification by Iraq to the Secretary-General and to the Security Council of its acceptance of the provisions above, a formal cease-fire is effective between Iraq and Kuwait and the Member States cooperating with Kuwait in accordance with resolution 678 (1990);” http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0687.htm

I do not think there is any report that the Iraqis saw George Bush’s face in the crowd, and stampeded because of a fear of what the traitor Cindy Sheehan called “The biggest terrorist in the world,” so thank God that George Bush has not shown up to talk to that treasonous woman Cindy Sheehan. Those treasonous Cindy Sheehan hypocrites are the only people on earth that deserve to stampede to their death.

When I enlisted I swore an oath to obey all lawful orders, so if George Bush is “The biggest terrorist in the world,” everyone in the chain of command that follows those orders are a terrorist. Cindy Sheehan and her supporters are traitors or it makes our troops criminals, those are the only two choices. Since I know that Saddam supported terrorism in violation of the laws, and the existing laws authorized the actions of this Member State, therefore our troops are not criminals.

Let us blame the real criminals, their supporters, and their appeasers for the deaths of those Iraqis.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

How do you know that those people support suicide bombers dressed in civilian disguise in violation of the rules of warfare?

The people responsible for this are:

1) Those terrorists that deliberately targeted a religious shrine in violation of the Geneva Convention rules of warfare, in that Iraq is a High Contracting Party;

2) Saddam’s supporters that were supporting suicide bombings before the war in violations of the rules of warfare and the cease-fire obligations under international laws:

“March 5, 2003: Bus bombing in Haifa. U.S. citizens killed: Abigail Leitel, 14, who was born in Lebanon, New Hampshire.” http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/usvictims.html

“The suicide bomber was 20 years old, a student of the Hebron Polytechnic University (from which a large number of suicide bombers have emerged) and a member of the Hamas terrorist organization.” http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/861590/posts

March 13, 2003: “(CBS) Saddam Hussein has distributed $260,000 to 26 families of Palestinians killed in 29 months of fighting with Israel, including a $10,000 check to the family of a Hamas suicide bomber.

In a packed banquet hall on Wednesday, the families came one-by-one to receive their $10,000 checks. A large banner said: ‘The Arab Baath Party Welcomes the Families of the Martyrs for the Distribution of Blessings of Saddam Hussein.’“ http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/14/world/main543981.shtml

“Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution, including the obligations on Iraq contained therein,” http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/11/08/resolution.text/

“H
32. Requires Iraq to inform the Security Council that it will not commit or support any act of international terrorism or allow any organization directed towards commission of such acts to operate within its territory and to condemn unequivocally and renounce all acts, methods and practices of terrorism;
I
33. Declares that, upon official notification by Iraq to the Secretary-General and to the Security Council of its acceptance of the provisions above, a formal cease-fire is effective between Iraq and Kuwait and the Member States cooperating with Kuwait in accordance with resolution 678 (1990);” http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0687.htm

I do not think there is any report that the Iraqis saw George Bush’s face in the crowd, and stampeded because of a fear of what the traitor Cindy Sheehan called “The biggest terrorist in the world,” so thank God that George Bush has not shown up to talk to that treasonous woman Cindy Sheehan. Those treasonous Cindy Sheehan hypocrites are the only people on earth that deserve to stampede to their death.

When I enlisted I swore an oath to obey all lawful orders, so if George Bush is “The biggest terrorist in the world,” everyone in the chain of command that follows those orders are a terrorist. Cindy Sheehan and her supporters are traitors or it makes our troops criminals, those are the only two choices. Since I know that Saddam supported terrorism in violation of the laws, and the existing laws authorized the actions of this Member State, therefore our troops are not criminals.

Let us blame the real criminals, their supporters, and their appeasers for the deaths of those Iraqis.

I agree with everything you said 100 %.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Sounded like you did to me... Are you so desperate you blame this on the President? How utterly pathetic. These people have the mentallity of cattle and thats anyones fault but there own? MOOOOOOOOO right off a cliff

You seem to be really nice guy, then people are extremly scared of atacks and there trying to despretly get away from a threat they certainly think is real ,they are according to you cattle. And that Bush havn't been able to stop the terrorist atacks, that even happen earlier the same day as the atack has nothing to do it. I don't ask you to be against the war but maybee you could care about the consevence abit more...

 

[Calm2Chaos]

You seem to be really nice guy, then people are extremly scared of atacks and there trying to despretly get away from a threat they certainly think is real ,they are according to you cattle. And that Bush havn't been able to stop the terrorist atacks, that even happen earlier the same day as the atack has nothing to do it. I don't ask you to be against the war but maybee you could care about the consevence abit more...

A bomb blow up in Atlanta few years back in a crowd of 1000's. Maybe you remeber that, it was called the olympics. And in that huge crowd of people there were not almost a 1000 people killed for no reason. And they actually had a bomb. Ya know what I am sorry people died. But to blame this on anybody but them or the terrorist is assinine.

 

[vergiss]

These people have the mentallity of cattle and thats anyones fault but there own? MOOOOOOOOO right off a cliff

That's disgusting. I don't blame it on Bush, but to say something like that is sick.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

That's disgusting. I don't blame it on Bush, but to say something like that is sick.

Whats sick?

I was describing the mentality of people that only heard something and jumped off a bridge to avoid it.

Not sure how that was sick

 

[vergiss]

Whats sick?

I was describing the mentality of people that only heard something and jumped off a bridge to avoid it.

Not sure how that was sick

Considering how their own people keep getting blown up by the terrorists, panic is hardly surprising. You would have freaked out if you were there, too.
These people died. To blame the victims for what terrorists did is like blaming America for Sept 11.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

A bomb blow up in Atlanta few years back in a crowd of 1000's. Maybe you remeber that, it was called the olympics. And in that huge crowd of people there were not almost a 1000 people killed for no reason. And they actually had a bomb. Ya know what I am sorry people died. But to blame this on anybody but them or the terrorist is assinine.

First of all I think it is a big diffrence from a crowded bridge and a big park also the people of Atlandt didn't have had over hundred bombsatacks in around 2 years before that bomb. Also if Bush send troops to a country and 1000 gets killed could he then blame it all on the evil enemy that fired back?

Because yes the terrorist have the ultimate responsible for death, that is nothing to argue about, but if you "liberate" a country you should have the responsible to keep both your own casualities and the civilian causalties down. Of course it can be hard in the war part then you don't have the control over the country, but even then is it something you have to count in and weight into the cost of the war. And then you like in Iraq have secured the country you should minimize the death and also have the responsibility to keep them down.

A good example is my country Sweden we don't have a big army but we could probably kick the but of some African dictature and his army, but probably have no means to stabilize the country. So could we still atack that country and then it turns into anarchy and people is getting killed say hey it not our fault it is the evil terrorist?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

First of all I think it is a big diffrence from a crowded bridge and a big park also the people of Atlandt didn't have had over hundred bombsatacks in around 2 years before that bomb. Also if Bush send troops to a country and 1000 gets killed could he then blame it all on the evil enemy that fired back?

Because yes the terrorist have the ultimate responsible for death, that is nothing to argue about, but if you "liberate" a country you should have the responsible to keep both your own casualities and the civilian causalties down. Of course it can be hard in the war part then you don't have the control over the country, but even then is it something you have to count in and weight into the cost of the war. And then you like in Iraq have secured the country you should minimize the death and also have the responsibility to keep them down.

A good example is my country Sweden we don't have a big army but we could probably kick the but of some African dictature and his army, but probably have no means to stabilize the country. So could we still atack that country and then it turns into anarchy and people is getting killed say hey it not our fault it is the evil terrorist?

Nope .. sorry you can try your dammdest to place blame on other people. BUt the ones soley responsible for this were those on the bridge and the terorrist.. No one else

 

[FinnMacCool]

Why should we care so much about freeing the Iraqi people if, as you put it, they have the "mentality of cattle"? Is this the war on the middle east or the war on terrorism? Are we heroes or are we assholes?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Why should we care so much about freeing the Iraqi people if, as you put it, they have the "mentality of cattle"? Is this the war on the middle east or the war on terrorism? Are we heroes or are we assholes?

Are we speaking in general or just you? :rofl
Kidding.
Were assholes of course.. we are always the assholes. You don't know that? Doesn't matter what we do, we are always going to be the asshole. It's just the way it is.

 

[KidRocks]

Sounded like you did to me... Are you so desperate you blame this on the President? How utterly pathetic. These people have the mentallity of cattle and thats anyones fault but there own? MOOOOOOOOO right off a cliff

These people have the mentallity of cattle

Pathetic is you pal with your dispicable generalization of Iraqi's.

MOOOOOOOOO?

You are one sick puppy!

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Pathetic is you pal with your dispicable generalization of Iraqi's.

You are one sick puppy!

I'm not your pal..... Now go protest something....keep yourself busy...:lol:

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Nope .. sorry you can try your dammdest to place blame on other people. BUt the ones soley responsible for this were those on the bridge and the terorrist.. No one else

I will beg you pardon for two thing first that I respond so late and the second thing is that I call you a anarchist now. Because for me is it very simple that you need a goverment to protect people, for example from getting killed or being beated uped and then you have created that goverment it has the responisibilty to give you that protection.

And in the case with Iraq it is USA responisble to give protection to the Iraqie people untill the country is stable because it was the USA that overthrowned the old goverment. So it can be a bit anarchistic I think if you think that people should fend for themself and no goverment should be there and have a responsibility to protect them.

Finally my involvment in this thread has not the intention to be about putting blame but discusing the responisibility a country and it citizen should have then they overthrowe another countries goverment. Maybee I could have posted in another thread or started a new thread. But I though then I started posting in this thread that a good starting point could be the comparing you americans reaction to killed american soldiers and innocent iraqie civilians.