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5 Things many Witnesses may come to regret sooner or later.
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How exactly are JW parents toxic/manipulative?
biffthehippoMy mum cared more about keeping up appearances to other JWs than she did about our (me and my brothers) happiness/wellbeing.
One time I sang the national anthem at school and the other JW kid in my class saw it, went home and told her dad (who was an elder in our congregation), who then called my mum.
I don’t know what he said to her but my mum beat me up immediately after she got off the phone with him.
I remember as it was happening she said I had embarrassed her but she never once mentioned disobeying Jehovah or anything like that. To her it was a bigger deal that an elder had called about my behaviour than me actually singing the song.
Cults are notorious for using social pressure to achieve obedience and conformity
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CHRIST isn't a CHRISTIAN either ------ HE simply is the great I AM. CHRIST said I AM. In John 8:58, HE declares "Before Abraham was, I AM," which is a direct claim to be the same "I AM" (Exodus 3:14) GOD revealed to Moses.
The Bread of Life
And JESUS said to them, "I AM the bread of life. He who comes to ME shall never hunger, and he who believes in ME shall never thirst." -John 6:35
Light of the World
Then JESUS spoke to them again, saying, "I AM the light of the world. He who follows ME shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life." -John 8:12
The Door
"I AM the door. If anyone enters by ME, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture." -John 10:9
Good Shepherd
"I AM the good shepherd. The GOOD SHEPHERD gives HIS life for the sheep." -John 10:11
The Resurrection and Life
JESUS said to her, "I AM the resurrection and the life. HE who believes in ME, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in ME shall never die. Do you believe this?" -John 11:25, 26
The Way, the Truth and the Life
JESUS said to him, "I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the FATHER except through ME." -John 14:6
The Vine
"I AM the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in ME, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without ME you can do nothing." -John 15:5
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I never said that the HOLY SPIRIT was not GOD.
I don't believe death in the same way you do. I believe death for a believer is the death of the fleshly body. The same is true of unbelievers. However, the CHRISTIAN has a soul that continues to survive after death and goes to heaven to be with GOD along with his spirit that is of GOD. The unsaved soul goes immediately to prison/hell and the spirit of the unsaved is belongs to Satan. This is the second death. SO, CHRIST on the CROSS commended HIS SPIRIT to the FATHER and it was only HIS fleshly human body that died, but upon HIS giving up the GHOST, HE traveled to the place where ALL the (OLD TESTAMENT) Saints went prior to the crucifixion/resurrection of CHRIST --- known as Paradise/Abraham's Bosom. There HE preached and released those held there because HE could claimed them as HIS.
Ephesians 4, Verses 7-10
¶“7 But each one of us was given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8 Therefore God says, ‘When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men.’ 9 But this, ‘He ascended’ —didn't he also first descend into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things” (Ephesians 4:7-10 quoting Psalm 68:18)- Joined
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What? Jesus laid out the perfect example for us to follow. He is everything a Christian should become. The Christ of God stating the phrase "I am" doesn't turn him into God.......you are reading false doctrine into scripture.
Jesus has preeminence, even though not factually coming first, He is the First for in the plan of God, His Son was basically the entire reason for this creation and the ultimate saving of mankind in growing His family. Which is what's meant by Jesus stating, "before Abraham was, I am" for look in the context:
(Joh 8:56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Their father Abraham and all those rejoicing in faith to see the coming days of Christ, prophesied from the beginning. In the plan of God, knowing the beginning from the end knew His Son before any of us, including Abraham.
Of course, Jesus is all those things, but strangely Jesus never says, "I am God". So they come up with the idea to take "I Am that I Am" place it upon Jesus saying the phrase "I am" and bingo, we can claim Jesus is God, lol......no, nice try though.
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Learn to have the same God as the One whom you follow.
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Yes, I know you believe to possess an immortal soul. Not only immortal as God, you go to heaven upon death, but the unsaved, whomever you want them to be go to hell. The cross was just the human nature of Jesus dying, not the divine nature of Christ.......well aware of these doctrines.....strange, imo.
As they say, "Saint or sinner, the immortal soul lives on whether in Heaven or in Hell".......hmmmm, a big No.
Why quote me? I don't care what you believe...
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Only those seeking the truth in faith like Peter have an epiphany of who CHRIST really is. That of course doesn't make one perfect and we also see that in Peter and the fact Satan was still trying to influence CHRIST in anyway HE could ---- even in Peter's "kind" words. The total; reveal is in the book of Revelation. "I AM" is a translation of the Hebrew name YAHWEH/JEHOVAH, which GOD reveals to Moses in Exodus 3:14. GOD uses the phrase "I AM WHO I AM" to identify HIMSELF, which is a declaration of HIS eternal and self-existent nature. It is likely that JESUS spoke the lines in Hebrew. HE certainly knew Hebrew ---- even at the age of 12 HE revealed this in the temple.
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That would seem odd. I care what you believe. That is what Christians do. We do not wish to see anyone lost.
Not always...my pearls are too valuable to get tromped on...
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GOD always existed (eternity to eternity). We were created beings and so our eternity has a start. And what GOD creates remains. The story about the rich man and Lazarus that Jesus told reveals both the holding place for Old Testament saints and also Hades the abode of the unredeemed...
Luke 16:19-31
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
And in the end JESUS even reveals that these brothers of the rich man will reject the RESURRECTION of JESUS CHRIST if they continue to ignore what Moses & the Prophets have to say.
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Lazarus/Eleasar means: GOD helps or GOD is my help.
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The name "Christian" was coined by pagans in Antioch making light of those who professed faith in the risen CHRIST. "I AM" in Hebrew means Yahweh/Jehovah. JESUS was nearly stoned for using the term --- They knew what HE meant.
Created beings cannot create from nothing. Even Satan is credited only with being the Father of lies.
All those by faith still existed in Paradise and now reside in heaven. They knew what was happening. I'm sure they heard all the clamor when JESUS was born.
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I have gotten the Awake and The WATCH TOWER for free. And that's why I know about the Witnesses --- though I've never visited a Kingdom Hall... I have not gone to a Mormon Temple either (and they have a book titled A PEARL of GREAT PRICE). Not all pearls are of eternal value.
This one is...
Read Matthew 13:45, 46. Jesus told an illustration about a merchant who was seeking pearls. Over the years, the merchant had no doubt bought and sold hundreds of pearls. Yet, now he had found the one pearl that was so magnificent that just seeing it made his heart rejoice. But to buy it would mean that he would have to sell everything else that he owned. Can you imagine how precious that pearl was to him?
What is the lesson for us? The truth of God’s Kingdom is like that priceless pearl. If we love it as much as the merchant loved that pearl, we will be willing to give up everything in order to become and to remain one of the subjects of the Kingdom. (Read Mark 10:28-30.) Consider two individuals who did just that.
Zacchaeus was a chief tax collector who had become rich by extorting money. (Luke 19:1-9) Yet, when that unrighteous man heard Jesus preach about the Kingdom, he recognized the excelling value of what he was hearing and took immediate action. He exclaimed: “Look! The half of my belongings, Lord, I am giving to the poor, and whatever I extorted from anyone, I am restoring four times over.” He gladly gave up his ill-gotten riches and abandoned his greed for material things.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2017442#h=10:0-15:314
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JESUS the CHRIST is the KINGDOM and those that reject HIM are rejecting the real PEARL and seeking after a material Kingdom --- a place to reside...
The kingdom of God is, in essence, God’s redemptive reign. Yet it can be easy to overlook this prominent theme in the life of JESUS, and tempting to assume rather than investigate the importance of who JESUS really is. When we miss the significance of who JESUS really is, we can miss the significance of the kingdom regarding merely biblical theology and ethics.
So how important was the kingdom of GOD to JESUS? What was HIS relationship to the in-breaking of the eschatological kingdom? Let’s examine ten ways JESUS related to the kingdom.
1. Jesus inaugurates the kingdom.
With the coming of Christ, the kingdom begins not in the coronation of a mighty king but in the birth of a crying baby. Yet as Jesus’ ministry begins in Mark, he announces, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15). What Israel had long awaited, Christ had now inaugurated.2. Jesus is the kingdom.
Where the king is, there is the kingdom. This is precisely why Jesus says to the Pharisees, “The kingdom of God is in the midst of you” (Luke 17:21). As Graeme Goldsworthy teaches, Jesus embodies the kingdom motif of God’s people in God’s place under God’s rule. Jesus is both the faithful ruler and the righteous citizen of the kingdom.3. Jesus purposes the kingdom.
Jesus reveals that his purpose is to proclaim the kingdom. Jesus described his mission saying that he “must preach the good news of the kingdom of God” (Luke 4:43).4. Jesus declares the kingdom.
Through his words, Jesus explains the kingdom and invites people to enter into it. Luke summarizes Jesus’ ministry as “proclaiming and bringing the good news of the kingdom of God” (Luke 8:1). The declaration of the kingdom often came through the parables of Jesus that illustrated what it was and how it worked.5. Jesus demonstrates the kingdom.
Through his works, Jesus shows the power of the kingdom and his authority over the prince of darkness. As Jesus explains, “If it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you” (Luke 11:20). Jesus not only declares the kingdom in his words but also demonstrates the kingdom in his works.Continued below:
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6. Jesus deploys the kingdom.
Jesus sends his followers out as ambassadors of the kingdom to herald its arrival. This deployment happens in Luke 10 as Jesus sends out the 72, instructing them to say, “The kingdom of God has come near to you” (Luke 10:9). In the great commission, king Jesus issues his discipleship battle plan to the church because he possesses “all authority in heaven and on earth” (Matt 28:18). Jesus sends his soldiers to the front lines to engage the kingdom of darkness.7. Jesus transforms the kingdom.
Israel’s messianic hopes focused on the coming of a military conqueror who would rescue them from their geo-political enemies. That is why they sought to make Jesus king (John 6:15). But Jesus reorients their vision by declaring, “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36). Jesus transforms the kingdom, showing it is holistic in its nature, redemptive in its mission, and cosmic in its scope.8. Jesus purchases the kingdom.
Through his victorious death and resurrection, Jesus redeems the kingdom. As he satisfies the wrath of God poured out for those who rebel against his rule, Jesus defeats Satan, sin, and death (Col 2:14-15). He overcomes the world, the flesh, and the Devil by destroying the power of the kingdom of darkness. By purchasing a kingdom people at the cross, Jesus proves himself to be the rightful ruler of the restored kingdom.9. Jesus concludes with the kingdom.
In his final words to his people, Jesus concludes his earthly ministry by clarifying the kingdom. Just before his ascension, Jesus’ disciples asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6). Even at the conclusion of his earthly ministry, Jesus resolved confusion about the kingdom. So the kingdom was key to the start of Jesus’ earthly ministry and its culmination.10. Jesus returns the kingdom.
In the second coming of Christ, Jesus returns as a triumphant warrior king. As he returns to achieve final victory, the name scribed on his body is “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Rev 19:16). At last, he places all his enemies under his feet as he launches a new creation kingdom that fully reflects his righteous reign. He consummates the conquest that began with his birth.If the kingdom of God was central to Jesus’ life and ministry, then it remains crucial to our theology and ethics today.
This entire article can be found here: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/10-connections-between-jesus-and-the-kingdom-of-god/
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IOW, according to you one must believe Jesus is God. Jesus saying the phrase "I am" is not God saying, "I am that I am" from Exodus. "I Am that I Am" obliterates any sort of trinity doctrine whatsoever. It's not that "WE Are, that We Are".....
It's always amazing to see how much twisting of scriptures trinitarians believe they can do in support of a triune God, lol. Jesus never would claim to be God or even equal to His Father and God. You believe the lies of those who had him killed......why put yourself in that position?
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Every time i see a thread that is about christians bickering with other christians its always you.
You dont even understand that you exemplify the best proof that the bible was obviously just iron age fables and fiction, not the work of a diety.
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It's a parable, not a literal story. Look at the symbolism, even just this one......Lazarus has "five brothers", who else has five brothers important in the OT? Five brothers means 6 sons, so who had six sons?
A rich man dressed in purple and fine linen.....surely you must know whom this represents? Dipping the finger in water to cool one's tongue in a literal fire is nonsensical, don't ya think? Maybe it means something else you cannot see?
Too much pride...
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Absolutely, one must be willing to take up his own cross and follow Jesus to the end. When a young man, that was the first sincere prayer of my life, making a pledge/contract with God that I would be willing to give up my life to help in any way I could......this prayer was heard! Immediately I was shown things too wonderful to speak, for human language hasn't the words. Life changing moment which has led me in wonderment at how the gospel was so quickly changed to where it is today. Churches of many denominations didn't like me much then, which was a real shocker to a young man, lol.
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Luke 16:19-31 has been the focus of much controversy. Some take the story of the rich man and Lazarus to be a true, historical account of events that actually occurred; others consider it a parable or allegory.
Those who interpret this narrative as a true incident have several reasons for doing so. First, the story is never called a parable. Many other of Jesus’ stories are designated as parables, such as the sower and the seed (Luke 8:4); the prosperous farmer (Luke 12:16); the barren fig tree (Luke 13:6); and the wedding feast (Luke 14:7). Second, the story of the rich man and Lazarus uses the actual name of a person. Such specificity would set it apart from ordinary parables, in which the characters are not named.
Third, this particular story does not seem to fit the definition of a parable, which is a presentation of a spiritual truth using an earthly illustration. The story of the rich man and Lazarus presents spiritual truth directly, with no earthly metaphor. The setting for most of the story is the afterlife, as opposed to the parables, which unfold in earthly contexts.
In contrast, others maintain that this story is a parable and not an actual, real-life incident. They point out that Jesus’ standard practice was to use parables in His teaching and that the story of the rich man and Lazarus follows a string of parables in Luke 15 – 16. They do not consider the above arguments strong enough to warrant classifying the story as anything but a parable.
The important thing is that whether the story is a true incident or a parable, the teaching behind it remains the same. Even if it is not a "real" story, it is realistic. Parable or not, Jesus plainly used this story to teach that after death the unrighteous are eternally separated from God, that they remember their rejection of the Gospel, that they are in torment, and that their condition cannot be remedied. In Luke 16:19-31, whether parable or literal account, Jesus clearly taught the existence of heaven and hell as well as the deceitfulness of riches to those who trust in material wealth.
(One must realize that JESUS most obviously believed that HELL is a real place, or HE would NOT have designed a story of that sustained such a belief. That would be a distortion and ultimately the a lie). JESUS doesn't lie.)
This full article is found here: https://www.gotquestions.org/Luke-16-19-31-parable.html
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The story of the two sons in Luke 15 contains various layers of allusions to the Old Testament. The story was obviously composed by someone who knew the Old Testament well, and it fits exactly with the context claimed in Luke 15:1–2. But if it is true that Jesus told this story with numerous allusions to the Old Testament, we would expect this pattern to be replicated elsewhere in parables attributed to Jesus.
I want to show that we do indeed find a pattern of Old Testament allusions in other stories and parables of Jesus. These are all shorter than the story of the two sons, and my analysis is likewise much briefer. So, let’s consider the story of the rich man and Lazarus in more detail.
The story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19–31 is arguably presented to the same audience as the stories of Luke 15. After 15:1–2 introduces Jesus’s mixed audience of tax collectors, sinners, Pharisees, and scribes, 16:1 presents him as addressing just his disciples. Yet the Pharisees are clearly still listening (16:14–15). As a hard-hitting parable against wealthy people who think they can invoke Abraham as their father, the story of the rich man and Lazarus has many thematic and verbal connections both with Luke 15 and the first part of Luke 16 (the parable of the unjust manager), so it is appropriate to see the audience as continuing from Luke 15.
This story shows various connections with the Old Testament. Initially, we are told just two things about the rich man: he wore fabulous clothes, specifically purple and linen, and he feasted luxuriously every day (16:19). Thinking as a scribe who has spent years copying and attending to the exact wording of the Bible, we may note that the only other text that mentions daily feasting with purple and linen together is in the book of Esther, in which Ahasuerus (Xerxes) the Persian king holds a celebration lasting 180 days with a seven-day feast at the end, and it is specifically said that the decor includes purple and linen (Est. 1:6 ESV).
So the rich man seems to be treating himself like royalty. We see the same pattern of using Scripture here as in Luke 15 because this use also involves contrast and moral challenge: whereas the Persian king invites great and small to his feast (Est. 1:5), the rich man does not. Lazarus remains outside at the gate, the very place that the book of Esther associates ten times with the hero Mordecai (Est. 2:19, 21; 3:2, 3; 4:2, 6; 5:9, 13; 6:10, 12). Like the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the book of Esther shows us that it does not end well for the rich man (Haman), who despises the man at the gate, whereas the man at the gate is honored by the king himself and ends up wearing linen and purple (Est. 8:15).
The story of the rich man and Lazarus also links with the only time in the Old Testament when someone has a different feast each day (rather than a continuous multiday feast), namely, the feasts of Job’s children:
His sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. (Job 1:4 ESV)
We note that the word used for the rich man’s daily feast is the word “celebrate,” which is also used in the story of the two sons both when the father celebrates the return of the younger son and when the older son wishes he could “celebrate” with his friends (Luke 15:24, 29).
With admirable economy of words, the storyteller says that the poor man is laid at the gate of the rich man, thus indicating that he is not merely poor but also suffers from a mobility disability.
He has been brought by others to what seems like a strategic spot from which to get help.
The rich man, whose name must have been known to many, is unnamed in the story, whereas Lazarus is named, indicating his greater importance to the storyteller and thus to God himself. We are then informed that Lazarus was covered with sores. Having just evoked the feasting of Job’s children, a scribe should know that the only other biblical character covered with sores was Job himself (Job 2:7). In this we see reversal relative to the Old Testament, which is characteristic of other stories attributed to Jesus. Job was covered with sores like Lazarus but differed dramatically from him by being wealthy. We also have a moral challenge combined with a reversal since rich Job could claim that he had always helped the poor (Job 31:16–22). Thus, Job was different from the rich man.
Continuation follows
I want to show that we do indeed find a pattern of Old Testament allusions in other stories and parables of Jesus. These are all shorter than the story of the two sons, and my analysis is likewise much briefer. So, let’s consider the story of the rich man and Lazarus in more detail.
The story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19–31 is arguably presented to the same audience as the stories of Luke 15. After 15:1–2 introduces Jesus’s mixed audience of tax collectors, sinners, Pharisees, and scribes, 16:1 presents him as addressing just his disciples. Yet the Pharisees are clearly still listening (16:14–15). As a hard-hitting parable against wealthy people who think they can invoke Abraham as their father, the story of the rich man and Lazarus has many thematic and verbal connections both with Luke 15 and the first part of Luke 16 (the parable of the unjust manager), so it is appropriate to see the audience as continuing from Luke 15.
This story shows various connections with the Old Testament. Initially, we are told just two things about the rich man: he wore fabulous clothes, specifically purple and linen, and he feasted luxuriously every day (16:19). Thinking as a scribe who has spent years copying and attending to the exact wording of the Bible, we may note that the only other text that mentions daily feasting with purple and linen together is in the book of Esther, in which Ahasuerus (Xerxes) the Persian king holds a celebration lasting 180 days with a seven-day feast at the end, and it is specifically said that the decor includes purple and linen (Est. 1:6 ESV).
So the rich man seems to be treating himself like royalty. We see the same pattern of using Scripture here as in Luke 15 because this use also involves contrast and moral challenge: whereas the Persian king invites great and small to his feast (Est. 1:5), the rich man does not. Lazarus remains outside at the gate, the very place that the book of Esther associates ten times with the hero Mordecai (Est. 2:19, 21; 3:2, 3; 4:2, 6; 5:9, 13; 6:10, 12). Like the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the book of Esther shows us that it does not end well for the rich man (Haman), who despises the man at the gate, whereas the man at the gate is honored by the king himself and ends up wearing linen and purple (Est. 8:15).
The story of the rich man and Lazarus also links with the only time in the Old Testament when someone has a different feast each day (rather than a continuous multiday feast), namely, the feasts of Job’s children:
His sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one on his day, and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. (Job 1:4 ESV)
We note that the word used for the rich man’s daily feast is the word “celebrate,” which is also used in the story of the two sons both when the father celebrates the return of the younger son and when the older son wishes he could “celebrate” with his friends (Luke 15:24, 29).
With admirable economy of words, the storyteller says that the poor man is laid at the gate of the rich man, thus indicating that he is not merely poor but also suffers from a mobility disability.
He has been brought by others to what seems like a strategic spot from which to get help.
The rich man, whose name must have been known to many, is unnamed in the story, whereas Lazarus is named, indicating his greater importance to the storyteller and thus to God himself. We are then informed that Lazarus was covered with sores. Having just evoked the feasting of Job’s children, a scribe should know that the only other biblical character covered with sores was Job himself (Job 2:7). In this we see reversal relative to the Old Testament, which is characteristic of other stories attributed to Jesus. Job was covered with sores like Lazarus but differed dramatically from him by being wealthy. We also have a moral challenge combined with a reversal since rich Job could claim that he had always helped the poor (Job 31:16–22). Thus, Job was different from the rich man.
Continuation follows