5 minutes that destroys the official version[W:228]

[Fledermaus]

Re: 5 minutes that destroys the official version

Representation; as in a description or portrayal of the reality.

synonyms: likeness, portrayal

There is no inconsistency in those statements. Why? The map is not the territory, the map is a representation of the territory.

Edit : more evidence that the thread has meet its purpose Fled has given up on all pretext of honest discussion and has entered full game playing mode.

BmanMcFly,,

On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters (where is this in the "official story"?) directed by a man on dialysis in (where is this in the "official story"?) a cave fortress (where is this in the "official story"?) halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop directed (where is this in the "official story"?) the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world, overpowering the passengers and the military combat-trained pilots on 4 commercial aircraft before flying those planes wildly off course for over an hour (where is this in the "official story"?) without being molested by a single fighter interceptor.

These 19 hijackers, devout religious fundamentalists who liked to drink alcohol, snort cocaine, and live with pink-haired strippers, managed to knock down 3 buildings with 2 planes in New York, (where is this in the "official story"?) while in Washington a pilot who couldn’t handle a single engine Cessna (where is this in the "official story"?) was able to fly a 757 in an 8,000 foot descending 270 degree corskscrew turn(where is this in the "official story"?) to come exactly level with the ground,(where is this in the "official story"?) hitting the Pentagon in the budget analyst office where DoD staffers were working on the mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars(where is this in the "official story"?) that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had announced “missing” from the Pentagon’s coffers in a press conference the day before, on September 10, 2001.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mark F]

Re: 5 minutes that destroys the official version

When Hyperbole Becomes Lies,... Continued

...halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop[4] directed the most sophisticated penetration[5] of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world[6],...

4. A satellite phone and a laptop are two ways of communicating, but certainly not the only ways and as we know from how OBL was eventually found and killed not even his preferred ways. This is also not part of the official story. He eschewed traceable electronic contact methods in favor of personal meetings and couriers. Planning at the detail level for 9/11 was however done at a lower level by Khalid Sheik Mohammed who according to the 9/11 Commission Report first proposed the plan, and other underlings. Again, the implication for the viewer is apparently supposed to be such a complex and sophisticated plan could not be carried out using such crude methods of communication, which completely ignores the reality of how the 9/11 plot came together over a period of several years.

5. This one is pretty easy - there was no penetration, sophisticated or otherwise of any defended airspace. Think about it for just a half-a-second. All 4 hijacked flights were regularly scheduled domestic flights. They took off from within CONUS airspace and remained within CONUS airspace the entire time until they crashed. If they were in the airspace the whole time they could not very well have penetrated that airspace now could they? So once again, untrue claim which is also not part of the official story.

6. ...the most heavily-defended airspace in the world. BS. There are 3rd world countries that have more heavily defended airspace than the east coast of the continental United States. CONUS air defenses on 9/11 were still geared heavily to the old Cold War threat - Russian Backfire bombers flying at altitude from over the North Pole. It was an air defense system that looked outward for threats not inward. Unlike say Moscow which is defended by hundreds of S-300P and A-135 SAM batteries in multiple rings in additional to several fighter interceptor regiments, the whole CONUS on 9/11/2001 had zero SAM missile batteries and only 12 alert fighter interceptors for the whole country! Once again, false claim that is also not part of the official story.

If this video is supposed to be a parody of the official story when do we get to the point where they start including things that are actually part of the official story?

 

[Mark F]

Yes, and you skipped the one where I went over the next few claims you tried to make and showed how those were part of the narrative that could never be proven either way... You skipped it to change the subject, actually the ending sentence of that post.

So, ya, the fact that you maintain the opinions in the face of the evidence, well, that's the definition of delusion.

This is really very simple.

Does the video say "box cutters" without mentioning any other type of weapon, yes or no? Does the "official story" (whatever you think that means) say only box cutters were used to take over the hijacked planes, yes or no? Do we have evidence other types of weapons were used or at least threats were made to use them, yes or no?

Does the video say OBL was on dialysis and living in a cave fortress as he directed the 9/11 attacks, yes or no? Was OBL directing the 9/11 attacks while on dialysis from a cave fortress, yes or no? Does the official story (again, whatever you think that means) say OBL directed the 9/11 attacks from a cave fortress while on dialysis, yes or no?

 

[Fledermaus]

This is really very simple.

Does the video say "box cutters" without mentioning any other type of weapon, yes or no? Does the "official story" (whatever you think that means) say only box cutters were used to take over the hijacked planes, yes or no? Do we have evidence other types of weapons were used or at least threats were made to use them, yes or no?

Does the video say OBL was on dialysis and living in a cave fortress as he directed the 9/11 attacks, yes or no? Was OBL directing the 9/11 attacks while on dialysis from a cave fortress, yes or no? Does the official story (again, whatever you think that means) say OBL directed the 9/11 attacks from a cave fortress while on dialysis, yes or no?

Mark... You are being "dishonest".

 

[Mark F]

Mark... You are being "dishonest".

Yes, it is very dishonest of me to point out what the video says vs. reality. After all, they are merely engaging in some friendly hyperbole, "slight exaggerations" and parody. They were not trying to grossly distort what actually happened in order to fool a gullible audience of the credulous and ignorant who - like certain people I could name - don't take the 5 minutes necessary to figure out what complete BS they are being fed.

That would be nutty.

 

[Fledermaus]

Yes, it is very dishonest of me to point out what the video says vs. reality. After all, they are merely engaging in some friendly hyperbole, "slight exaggerations" and parody. They were not trying to grossly distort what actually happened in order to fool a gullible audience of the credulous and ignorant who - like certain people I could name - don't take the 5 minutes necessary to figure out what complete BS they are being fed.

That would be nutty.

Indeed....

I notice he hasn't responeded to the questions about whether or not certain talking points are in the "official story"

 

[Mark F]

Indeed....

I notice he hasn't responeded to the questions about whether or not certain talking points are in the "official story"

Bman hasn't responded to much of anything. Other than the usual distorting of what I said out of any resemblance to its original meaning (with a healthy dose of quote-mining) on the weapons issue he didn't address any of the specific points. Huge end-run around the whole dialysis issue - ignoring it entirely and introducing strawmen like how OBL appears younger in some video's than he should (Bman has apparently never heard of Just for Men) and a various unsubstantiated reports of the man's early demise. Another big end run and strawman on the cave fortress issue where he only discusses post-9/11 movements, not pre-9/11 which would be the only ones relevant to the claims in the video.

Bman either knows what he is doing and hoping I won't catch on (should know better than that by now) or he doesn't realize what he is doing which is why this whole thing would have been easier if he would just explain what he thinks the video got right instead of us showing what isn't.

And NONE of the points addressed so far are part of the official story, so clearly the video can not be simply a light-hearted parody of the official story as Bman claims.

 

[gamolon]

Indeed....

I notice he hasn't responeded to the questions about whether or not certain talking points are in the "official story"

Come on guys! It was only SLIGHT exaggerations, not actual errors!

I mean, how can you say that telling people that Osama was going through dialysis in a cave fortress ("cave fortress" being an exaggeration of "Pakistani hospital") the morning of 9/11 ("the morning of 9/11" being an exaggeration of "the night before 9/11"), while in direct contact during the attacks via a satellite phone and laptop ("in direct contact during the attacks via a satellite phone and laptop" being a slight exaggeration of "not in direct contact during the attack"), is filled with errors?

Exaggerations are just fun parodies and not errors in any way.

I'll have to let everyone know that they can make "exaggerations" on their taxes and when the IRS calls them about their "errors", we can all just say "Hey, they're just exaggerations, not errors!"

I'm sure the IRS will just giggle and let everyone slide.

:roll:

 

[Fledermaus]

Bman hasn't responded to much of anything. Other than the usual distorting of what I said out of any resemblance to its original meaning (with a healthy dose of quote-mining) on the weapons issue he didn't address any of the specific points. Huge end-run around the whole dialysis issue - ignoring it entirely and introducing strawmen like how OBL appears younger in some video's than he should (Bman has apparently never heard of Just for Men) and a various unsubstantiated reports of the man's early demise. Another big end run and strawman on the cave fortress issue where he only discusses post-9/11 movements, not pre-9/11 which would be the only ones relevant to the claims in the video.

Bman either knows what he is doing and hoping I won't catch on (should know better than that by now) or he doesn't realize what he is doing which is why this whole thing would have been easier if he would just explain what he thinks the video got right instead of us showing what isn't.

And NONE of the points addressed so far are part of the official story, so clearly the video can not be simply a light-hearted parody of the official story as Bman claims.

The video itself comes from Corbett Report (Not the Colbert Report).

Corbett is a known TRUTHER and can be expected to hold truth in low regard.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Re: 5 minutes that destroys the official version

Answer a question for me.

Why did the author of that video make reference to only box cutters and not mention knives and the threat of bombs being on board? Is that an exaggeration on his part?

No... the original narrative only discussed box cutters. Ultimately, you could not PROVE even that. No matter, it doesn't even matter, this little detail that can't be proven one way or another, when the end result is that the planes were hijacked, whether it was guns, or knives, or bad breath... unless you are trying to claim that the planes were not hijacked, the means of that doesn't matter.

Even if it was just box cutters, you cut one or two people's throats... the blood alone would be sufficient to paralyze most untrained people into inaction.

Really?

So Osama was going through dialysis while in a cave as he directly directed the attacks on the morning of 9/11? Those are the facts Bman?

No, the dialysis was the day before and part of the sources provided. At least that was the claims made by the hospital staff and others.

So, I suppose that's a strawman of what was said...

 

[BmanMcfly]

This is really very simple.

Does the video say "box cutters" without mentioning any other type of weapon, yes or no? Does the "official story" (whatever you think that means) say only box cutters were used to take over the hijacked planes, yes or no? Do we have evidence other types of weapons were used or at least threats were made to use them, yes or no?

Does the video say OBL was on dialysis and living in a cave fortress as he directed the 9/11 attacks, yes or no? Was OBL directing the 9/11 attacks while on dialysis from a cave fortress, yes or no? Does the official story (again, whatever you think that means) say OBL directed the 9/11 attacks from a cave fortress while on dialysis, yes or no?

You are aware that dialysis is a procedure that one goes through while suffering from kidney failure, right?

You are aware that some people have dialysis machines that they own to perform their own treatments, right?

So, you're nit picking on issues that are not necessarily opposing... This isn't one of your "a cover up that's not a cover up" things.

Anyway, I see you put another few paragraphs of stuff already shown bunk. .. and still did not bother with any sources again.

You really want another schooling? Glutton for punishment a bit?

All this energy on the first minute that's already been sourced as accurate in triplicate, instead of going through the next minute...

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: 5 minutes that destroys the official version

No... the original narrative only discussed box cutters. Ultimately, you could not PROVE even that. No matter, it doesn't even matter, this little detail that can't be proven one way or another, when the end result is that the planes were hijacked, whether it was guns, or knives, or bad breath... unless you are trying to claim that the planes were not hijacked, the means of that doesn't matter.

Even if it was just box cutters, you cut one or two people's throats... the blood alone would be sufficient to paralyze most untrained people into inaction.

False....

Completely and totally false.

A flight attendant on Flight 11, a passenger on Flight 175, and passengers on Flight 93 said the hijackers had bombs, but one of the passengers said he thought the bombs were fake.

Members of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States passed around and examined a Leatherman-style utility knife on the second day of a two-day hearing. Also known as the 9/11 commission, the group is an independent, bipartisan panel investigating the attacks on New York and Washington.

A staff member testified that the hijackers purchased at least two such knives and that they weren't found in belongings the attackers left behind.

No, the dialysis was the day before and part of the sources provided. At least that was the claims made by the hospital staff and others.

So, I suppose that's a strawman of what was said...

Why is it a Strawman?

The video is WRONG.



BmanMcFly,,

On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters (where is this in the "official story"?) directed by a man on dialysis in (where is this in the "official story"?) a cave fortress (where is this in the "official story"?) halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop directed (where is this in the "official story"?) the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world, overpowering the passengers and the military combat-trained pilots on 4 commercial aircraft before flying those planes wildly off course for over an hour (where is this in the "official story"?) without being molested by a single fighter interceptor.

These 19 hijackers, devout religious fundamentalists who liked to drink alcohol, snort cocaine, and live with pink-haired strippers, managed to knock down 3 buildings with 2 planes in New York, (where is this in the "official story"?) while in Washington a pilot who couldn’t handle a single engine Cessna (where is this in the "official story"?) was able to fly a 757 in an 8,000 foot descending 270 degree corskscrew turn(where is this in the "official story"?) to come exactly level with the ground,(where is this in the "official story"?) hitting the Pentagon in the budget analyst office where DoD staffers were working on the mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars(where is this in the "official story"?) that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had announced “missing” from the Pentagon’s coffers in a press conference the day before, on September 10, 2001.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Oh man... you guys are hysterical. In both senses, hysterically funny, AND hysterically desperate to have your claims shown bunk again...

 

[Fledermaus]

You are aware that dialysis is a procedure that one goes through while suffering from kidney failure, right?

You are aware that some people have dialysis machines that they own to perform their own treatments, right?

So, you're nit picking on issues that are not necessarily opposing... This isn't one of your "a cover up that's not a cover up" things.

Anyway, I see you put another few paragraphs of stuff already shown bunk. .. and still did not bother with any sources again.

You really want another schooling? Glutton for punishment a bit?

All this energy on the first minute that's already been sourced as accurate in triplicate, instead of going through the next minute...

The video is WRONG....

 

[Fledermaus]

Oh man... you guys are hysterical. In both senses, hysterically funny, AND hysterically desperate to have your claims shown bunk again...

TRANSLATION: BmanMcFly is once again shown to be wrong.

 

[Fledermaus]

oh man... You guys are hysterical. In both senses, hysterically funny, and hysterically desperate to have your claims shown bunk again...

where have i been dishonest?

 

[BmanMcfly]

The video is WRONG....

I'm still waiting on you all to back up your claims and prove it..

TRANSLATION: BmanMcFly is once again shown to be wrong.

Where has that happened? I'm sorry fled, your opinions do not trump the facts I've raised, and that's all you've offered so far was opinions.

 

[Fledermaus]

I'm still waiting on you all to back up your claims and prove it..

I have.

You ignored.

BTW - where have i been dishonest?

Where has that happened? I'm sorry fled, your opinions do not trump the facts I've raised, and that's all you've offered so far was opinions.

A flight attendant on Flight 11, a passenger on Flight 175, and passengers on Flight 93 said the hijackers had bombs, but one of the passengers said he thought the bombs were fake.

Not my opinion.....

Facts.

But, you ignored.

You tend to ignore a lot.

BTW - where have i been dishonest?

 

[Fledermaus]

I'm still waiting on you all to back up your claims and prove it..

Where has that happened? I'm sorry fled, your opinions do not trump the facts I've raised, and that's all you've offered so far was opinions.

BmanMcFly,,

On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters (where is this in the "official story"?) directed by a man on dialysis in (where is this in the "official story"?) a cave fortress (where is this in the "official story"?) halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop directed (where is this in the "official story"?) the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world, overpowering the passengers and the military combat-trained pilots on 4 commercial aircraft before flying those planes wildly off course for over an hour (where is this in the "official story"?) without being molested by a single fighter interceptor.

These 19 hijackers, devout religious fundamentalists who liked to drink alcohol, snort cocaine, and live with pink-haired strippers, managed to knock down 3 buildings with 2 planes in New York, (where is this in the "official story"?) while in Washington a pilot who couldn’t handle a single engine Cessna (where is this in the "official story"?) was able to fly a 757 in an 8,000 foot descending 270 degree corskscrew turn(where is this in the "official story"?) to come exactly level with the ground,(where is this in the "official story"?) hitting the Pentagon in the budget analyst office where DoD staffers were working on the mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars(where is this in the "official story"?) that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had announced “missing” from the Pentagon’s coffers in a press conference the day before, on September 10, 2001.[/QUOTE]

 

[BmanMcfly]

I have.

You ignored.

BTW - where have i been dishonest?



A flight attendant on Flight 11, a passenger on Flight 175, and passengers on Flight 93 said the hijackers had bombs, but one of the passengers said he thought the bombs were fake.

Not my opinion.....

Facts.

But, you ignored.

You tend to ignore a lot.

BTW - where have i been dishonest?

Oh ya? What post has all the sources you claim showing all the lies and the correction to those lies? I must have missed it, or already shown it was bunk.

 

[BmanMcfly]

BmanMcFly,,

On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters (where is this in the "official story"?) directed by a man on dialysis in (where is this in the "official story"?) a cave fortress (where is this in the "official story"?) halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop directed (where is this in the "official story"?) the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world, overpowering the passengers and the military combat-trained pilots on 4 commercial aircraft before flying those planes wildly off course for over an hour (where is this in the "official story"?) without being molested by a single fighter interceptor.

These 19 hijackers, devout religious fundamentalists who liked to drink alcohol, snort cocaine, and live with pink-haired strippers, managed to knock down 3 buildings with 2 planes in New York, (where is this in the "official story"?) while in Washington a pilot who couldn’t handle a single engine Cessna (where is this in the "official story"?) was able to fly a 757 in an 8,000 foot descending 270 degree corskscrew turn(where is this in the "official story"?) to come exactly level with the ground,(where is this in the "official story"?) hitting the Pentagon in the budget analyst office where DoD staffers were working on the mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars(where is this in the "official story"?) that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had announced “missing” from the Pentagon’s coffers in a press conference the day before, on September 10, 2001.

[/QUOTE]
Oh this one? Where the only case you make is that you do not even know the fairy tale you've been defending?

 

[Mark F]

You are aware that dialysis is a procedure that one goes through while suffering from kidney failure, right?

You are aware that some people have dialysis machines that they own to perform their own treatments, right?

So, you're nit picking on issues that are not necessarily opposing... This isn't one of your "a cover up that's not a cover up" things.

Anyway, I see you put another few paragraphs of stuff already shown bunk. .. and still did not bother with any sources again.

You really want another schooling? Glutton for punishment a bit?

All this energy on the first minute that's already been sourced as accurate in triplicate, instead of going through the next minute...

I am aware of Kidney disease and treatments for it, yes. That has nothing to do with anything being discussed here. Your video claims OBL was on dialysis. No nits being picked here - there is simply zero credible evidence OBL had any sort of Kidney ailment or failure, let alone that he was on dialysis leading up to 9/11. You are aware that is the claim made in your video - that OBL was on dialysis while he planned 9/11, yes?

Do you agree or disagree with the claim in the video that OBL was on dialysis leading up to 9/11/2001, yes or no?

Do you agree or disagree with the video that OBL planned and orchestrated the 9/11 attacks from a "cave fortress" while hooked up to a dialysis machine, yes or no?

These are the issues in question, not how Kidney failure is treated. Stop dancing around it.

If you can manage to answer the simple yes/no questions above, do you agree with the video that the hijackers only used box cutters when they took over the planes, yes or no?

 

[BmanMcfly]

I am aware of Kidney disease and treatments for it, yes. That has nothing to do with anything being discussed here. Your video claims OBL was on dialysis. No nits being picked here - there is simply zero credible evidence OBL had any sort of Kidney ailment or failure, let alone that he was on dialysis leading up to 9/11. You are aware that is the claim made in your video - that OBL was on dialysis while he planned 9/11, yes?

Do you agree or disagree with the claim in the video that OBL was on dialysis leading up to 9/11/2001, yes or no?

Do you agree or disagree with the video that OBL planned and orchestrated the 9/11 attacks from a "cave fortress" while hooked up to a dialysis machine, yes or no?

These are the issues in question, not how Kidney failure is treated. Stop dancing around it.

If you can manage to answer the simple yes/no questions above, do you agree with the video that the hijackers only used box cutters when they took over the planes, yes or no?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUj2905unnw

 

[Fledermaus]

[/SIZE]

Oh this one? Where the only case you make is that you do not even know the fairy tale you've been defending?[/QUOTE]

Where in the "official story" are the things BOLDED for your convenience?

 

[Fledermaus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUj2905unnw

9 11 Bin Laden At Rawalpindi Hospital September 10th

Strange looking CAVE, eh?