5,000 US troops deploying to southern border in response to migrant caravan

[Tangmo]

I can smell your fear from here.

I doubt it.

I have no fear.

I carry a gun.

Well with all respect, you seem to fear a Trump hyped event. There are many types of fear that do not involve direct & immediate physical threat.

Indeed and as we know pain has its limits while fear is virtually limitless. We can pretty much expect that on Tuesday next Trump will start striking fears about the election outcome even as the votes are being counted. Trump is a fear merchant, the incipient armband dictator. Trump will never get his wall so he will generate all the fear he can. Until he cannot any more. The color of Trump's fear btw is blue. It's the worst thing that can happen to a hydrophobe, i.e., a blue tidal surge.

 

[Carleen]

What are you not buying? My point was Fox was not a reliable source. I offered third party evidence that they were not. I believe I was stepping in with evidence to SUPPORT what you were saying. What are you taking issue with?

Sorry. I made a mistake. I thought you were another poster who was defending Fox. My apologies.

 

[Vox]

Well, normally we consult with each other.:roll:

No answer? Gonna stick with the race baiting?

There is no race baiting.

 

[Vox]

Ah, actually I never heard of Mr. Gesserit, but I'll Wiki him.

I didn't mean to get so philosophical, but yeah - fear is a complex subject as you said. As to myself, I really do not see any personal fear as good. Objective caution is a good thing, if based upon accurate data evaluated objectively. But quite honestly in my life, I can say a great many of the times in my past life where I used less than optional judgment, were times when I let fear - even if moderate - enter the equation, rather than seeing things more objectively detached.

And examples of fear limiting optimum performance abound: On a live trading floor, the fearful lose all the time. In cards, scared money never holds the purse come the end of the night. I don't know the business of law enforcement or soldiering, but even there it seems to me the best way to succeed in a dangerous or immediate situation would be to objectively execute.

I had an occasion in my life where I assisted in possibly saving a life, by helping apply a tourniquet. And another, where I distracted and repelled an intruder wielding a baseball bat, bent on (seemingly) causing great physical harm to my neighbor, without my needing to fire a shot or fully bare my weapon. In neither case did I feel fear, but rather I laser-focused on getting the task done, while evaluating the situation and not placing myself in a position of undue harm. I believe I could not have successfully done those things if I let fear enter my thought process, even those those around me were screaming, running, and panicking more than enough for everyone there.

From the military point of view.......fear is essential in preparation, planning and training. It motivates us to consider every possible scenario and be ready when it comes.

When it comes you just do as your training dictates......the hope is that for most people the training just takes over and you do what must be done.

Since we seem to agree on the important parts of this......I'll just say, ok.

 

[Vox]

Indeed and as we know pain has its limits while fear is virtually limitless. We can pretty much expect that on Tuesday next Trump will start striking fears about the election outcome even as the votes are being counted. Trump is a fear merchant, the incipient armband dictator. Trump will never get his wall so he will generate all the fear he can. Until he cannot any more. The color of Trump's fear btw is blue. It's the worst thing that can happen to a hydrophobe, i.e., a blue tidal surge.

As a president, informing your people of dangers is not fear-mongering, it is your job.

Our conflict comes because one side loves the idea of more aliens forcing their way into the U.S. and the other side sees it as an abomination.

So......one side sees danger and one side sees opportunity to feel good about themselves by welcoming aliens.

Which side is right?

Who knows? I suspect it will take many years to know for sure.

 

[Chomsky]

From the military point of view.......fear is essential in preparation, planning and training. It motivates us to consider every possible scenario and be ready when it comes.

When it comes you just do as your training dictates......the hope is that for most people the training just takes over and you do what must be done.

Since we seem to agree on the important parts of this......I'll just say, ok.

O.K.! :thumbs:

 

[upsideguy]

No, it would be the unwise thing to do.

Are you say the Word is "unwise"? Interesting.

 

[upsideguy]

Keep in mind.......Jesus didn't pay taxes.

He let his gullible followers do that.

You can pay for the tired and poor huddled masses yearning to breathe free......and eat free......if YOU want to.

The rest of us are saying "Stay the fook OUT."

:mrgreen:

You do realize that YOU have the minority position on this..... The "rest of us" are more aligned with my thinking than yours.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/us/immigration-polls-donald-trump.html
Shifting Public Views on Legal Immigration Into the U.S. | Pew Research Center

 

[Vox]

You do realize that YOU have the minority position on this..... The "rest of us" are more aligned with my thinking than yours.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/us/immigration-polls-donald-trump.html
Shifting Public Views on Legal Immigration Into the U.S. | Pew Research Center

Polls? LOL!

YOU are in the minority on this.

 

[upsideguy]

Polls? LOL!

YOU are in the minority on this.

Classic. I offer empirical evidence to support my position. You offer nothing. You realize the only way you can know the position of the electorate is with polling. You don't think Trump watches his polls? Polls are the evidential matter of public opinion.

Without evidential matter, you are left with only your impressions: the voices in your head. I am not interested in arguing with the voices in your head.

 

[Vox]

Classic. I offer empirical evidence to support my position. You offer nothing. Without evidential matter, you are left with only your impressions: the voices in your head. I am not interested in arguing with the voices in your head.

You have no empirical evidence.

You have polls.

We all know what they're worth.

 

[HumblePi]

That caravan is 1,000 miles away. That's like walking from Houston, Texas to Jacksonville, Florida. They are easily a month away from the closest crossing point in the U.S. All this hype from Fox and Trump is just that, hype to elevate the fear factor a week before the midterms.

 

[Tangmo]

As a president, informing your people of dangers is not fear-mongering, it is your job.

Our conflict comes because one side loves the idea of more aliens forcing their way into the U.S. and the other side sees it as an abomination.

So......one side sees danger and one side sees opportunity to feel good about themselves by welcoming aliens.

Which side is right?

Who knows? I suspect it will take many years to know for sure.

Trump took his oath of office and wiped his ass with it.

In real time.

This is in real time indeed. It could also be said we're in unreal time. This too shall pass.

 

[MTAtech]

Here come the poor, the tired, the hungry huddled masses yearning to breathe free.......and EAT free!"

The Liberals keep asking........"How can these pathetic people be dangerous?"

Write this down and study it.

They're dangerous because they can sneak in and breed and multiply into many millions and make OUR America into Mejico North.

Wake up or get ready to speak Spanish, mi amigos.

Was that sarcasm? It's hard to read sarcasm.

If not, you fear is basically xenophobia. Got news for you, the white folk that you think are native Americans were immigrants once.

 

[Rexedgar]

Seems I know more about US law than you or Trump does.

Setting a high bar, aren’t we? :mrgreen:

 

[chuckiechan]

Wonder how they will be utilized???

Mechanics and cooks?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

They can quickly depoly razor wire and build temporary holding areas.

Their are two principles at work here.

A - by being human, humans have the right to live where they please.
B - our border is to be challenged as an artificial construct that has no validity.

 

[Tangmo]

Troops going to the border are engineers not infantry. They are air support, not air assault. They are mechanics and clerks. That means the troops will not be allowed to detain immigrants, seize drugs from smugglers or have any direct involvement in stopping a migration that is still about 1,000 miles from the nearest border crossing. So let's calm down to see how their trek develops over the next couple of weeks.


That still leaves room for concern, said Mark Cancian, a retired Marine who has focused on the military’s border role as a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Security. "If you start seeing soldier patrols, that is a problem,” Cancian said. "Military soldiers, troops, are not trained in law enforcement.”

A National Guard crew member aboard a UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter consults a map en route to a call for assistance by Border Patrol agents on the ground on Aug. 13, 2018. The work was part of Operation Guardian Support, the National Guard mission assisting border patrol agents in work along the southern U.S. border. (Lu Maheda/U.S. Customers and Border Protection)


Instead of sending active-duty troops, the government should hire more trained agents, if that’s what’s needed, Cancian said. “If you need 5,200 more personnel on the border, you should go out and hire 5,200 more Border Patrol,” he said. But this deployment isn’t really about the military assisting in homeland defense, he said. “This isn’t a military activity. This is a political activity,” Cancian said. “And you have to see it through that lens. It’s about politics and perception. The president wants to make a political statement, and that’s what people are reacting to.”

Responding to immigration influxes has typically been the purview of the National Guard, such as Operation Jump Start from 2006-2008 under former President George W. Bush, said William Banks, author of “Soldiers on the Home Front: The Domestic Role of the American Military” and the former director of the Institute for National Security and Counter-terrorism at Syracuse University’s College of Law.

In that operation, according to the National Guard Bureau’s historical services division, “as many as 6,000 National Guard men and women at any one time participated in the operation ... not to close the Nation’s border with Mexico but to make it more secure for legal immigration and commerce.”

After a few weeks of training, Texas National Guard soldiers work in their sectors fulfilling administrative, surveillance and maintenance tasks in order to free up agents and assist in border mission efforts on May 1, 2018. (Army 1st. Lt. Nadine Wiley De Moura/100th Mobile Public Affairs Detachment)


The use of military troops to secure the border has been tightly monitored since a 1997 incident where U.S. Marines assigned to the border to support drug interdiction ended up firing on and killing an 18-year-old, Esequiel Hernandez Jr., a U.S. citizen who was herding goats along the border.

In addition, National Guard forces are under the control of their state governors, and in the spring, when President Donald Trump requested National Guard support to be sent to the Mexico border, several governors refused. To date, only about 2,100 of the 4,000 National Guard billets authorized by Defense Secretary Jim Mattis in response to the president’s original request are filled.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...rder-is-just-the-beginning/?utm_source=clavis

 

[Vox]

Was that sarcasm? It's hard to read sarcasm.

If not, you fear is basically xenophobia. Got news for you, the white folk that you think are native Americans were immigrants once.

I have no fear. I laugh at your news. Ha ha ha. Because.......your news is fake. Think on this:

My ancestors came from Yorkshire in 1642.....as conquerors. The Amerindians came as wandering hunter gatherers somewhat earlier.

They were the ones we conquered.

Neither group can be called immigrants. Ellis Island wasn't quite in operation.

Bottom line is.......we're in charge now and we're not letting them take it back.

Cry in your beer.

 

[MTAtech]

I have no fear. I laugh at your news. Ha ha ha. Because.......your news is fake. Think on this:

My ancestors came from Yorkshire in 1642.....as conquerors. The Amerindians came as wandering hunter gatherers somewhat earlier.

They were the ones we conquered.

Neither group can be called immigrants. Ellis Island wasn't quite in operation.

Bottom line is.......we're in charge now and we're not letting them take it back.

Cry in your beer.

My news is fake? Since I was quoting your post that said that we should try to keep the brown people out of our country, are you saying your post is fake?

Direct Quote:

They're dangerous because they can sneak in and breed and multiply into many millions and make OUR America into Mejico North.

I rightly called that xenophobia. Not reporting news and posting the truth.

 

[Buzz62]

My news is fake? Since I was quoting your post that said that we should try to keep the brown people out of our country, are you saying your post is fake?

Direct Quote:
I rightly called that xenophobia. Not reporting news and posting the truth.

It really bugs you Libbies that your president wants to secure your nation's borders, don' it.
Really quite pathetic.

 

[Vox]

My news is fake? Since I was quoting your post that said that we should try to keep the brown people out of our country, are you saying your post is fake?

Direct Quote:
I rightly called that xenophobia. Not reporting news and posting the truth.

You obviously haven't looked up the definition of xenophobia.

It's got nothing to do with me.

 

[MTAtech]

It really bugs you Libbies that your president wants to secure your nation's borders, don' it.
Really quite pathetic.

That's exactly what a Trump pawn would say -- because the borders were more secure under Obama, who didn't institute draconian policies or deploy the military to head-off families 1,000 miles away trying to flee violence and rape.

But you are a pawn because you are willfully ignorant of the fact that this is merely an election ploy to distract from the fact that GOP policies are extraordinarily unpopular among voters. So, for the GOP to win they need to use a shiny object. "Look, over there, there are immigrants invading. Be very scared!"

Americans hate Republicans' idea to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security to bring down the soaring deficit. And they have another idea the GOP won't like.

 

[Vox]

That's exactly what a Trump pawn would say -- because the borders were more secure under Obama, who didn't institute draconian policies or deploy the military to head-off families 1,000 miles away trying to flee violence and rape.

But you are a pawn because you are willfully ignorant of the fact that this is merely an election ploy to distract from the fact that GOP policies are extraordinarily unpopular among voters. So, for the GOP to win they need to use a shiny object. "Look, over there, there are immigrants invading. Be very scared!"

LOL!

You say....."You are a Trump pawn.
You are a pawn.
You are ignorant.
You are scared."

LOL!!!

Is that really all you got?

You also fail to understand WHY the military is deployed now.......a few weeks before the caravan gets here.

Can you guess?

I'll help you. They're building the internment camps, communications and drone control sites, HQ sites, housing for more military to come and they're working on the WALL.

The timing is perfect.

And we're not scared.......we're PREPARED.

The Mestizos and the Amerindians are the ones that need to be scared.

 

[Buzz62]

That's exactly what a Trump pawn would say -- because the borders were more secure under Obama, who didn't institute draconian policies or deploy the military to head-off families 1,000 miles away trying to flee violence and rape.

But you are a pawn because you are willfully ignorant of the fact that this is merely an election ploy to distract from the fact that GOP policies are extraordinarily unpopular among voters. So, for the GOP to win they need to use a shiny object. "Look, over there, there are immigrants invading. Be very scared!"

Americans hate Republicans' idea to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security to bring down the soaring deficit. And they have another idea the GOP won't like.

A Trump pawn? Because I think a nation's borders are worth defending and protecting?
Huh...ya just can't fix people filled with hate I guess. Take you suppositions to kindergarden. They have a better chance of being believed there...a slim chance...but better than with grown-ups.

Bye

 

[DaveFagan]

YES! The filthy military aged horde of third world criminals (women and children too) are about to get a dose of reality when our bold president tells them they will not enter our magnificent country, a country that wasn't created for them in the first place by our wise founders. Our president means business Luke a strong leader should. This is what I call protecting our sovereign borders. These will be active duty troops.


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-...000-troops-border-officials/story?id=58830081


The U.S. military is preparing to send as many as 5,000 active duty troops to the southwest border in coming days to meet a request from the Department of Homeland Security to augment resources in anticipation of the arrival of the caravan of migrants currently in Mexico, according to multiple U.S. officials.

The announcement is expected to be made on Monday afternoon at a press conference in Washington D.C. by General Terrence O’Shaughnessy, the commander of U.S. Northern Command and Kevin McAleenan, the commissioner of Customs and Border Protection.

So if we send 5,000 troops to the border, and 20% serve logistical purposes that leaves 4,000 troops at the border about 2,000 miles long and one troop every half mile. Sounds like a typical US Military plan to me a/k/a SNAFU.
/