3 Dead After Shooting At West Freeway Church Of Christ In White Settlement

[Fledermaus]

That's a constant myth from the gun nuts. Where do you think criminals get their guns? Largely FROM LEGAL GUN OWNERS. When you reduce number of guns, you reduce the number criminals have. Guns don't magically appear in criminals' hands.

That was tried in Australia..

Aussies started making their own guns.

 

[Maidenrules29]

Far easier would be to ban the importation, manufacture and sales of ammunition and ammunition components within the US. No need to collect any guns at all..

We cant even stop the illegal importation of human beings into this country. What makes you think that you can prevent boxes of bullets from getting in? There will ALWAYS be a black market for forbidden fruit Tex.

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[Rich2018]

We cant even stop the illegal importation of human beings into this country. What makes you think that you can prevent boxes of bullets from getting in? There will ALWAYS be a black market for forbidden fruit Tex.

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Most illegal immigration to the USA is people who arrive legally and outstay their visas.

Ammunition and guns are hard to get past an x-ray machine. They're fairly heavy too.

 

[Craig234]

2. End the black market for guns coming from other countries, especially Mexico.

What a joke! There is a NEGLIGIBLE issue of guns from Mexico to the US - there is a MASSIVE issue of guns from the US to Mexico. What do you think Fast and Furious was? Tracking some of the massive guns bought in the US for drug cartels in Mexico. An estimated 70 percent of guns in Mexico came from the US. What's trump doing? EXPANDING gun sales.

Research shows that a majority of guns in Mexico can be traced to the U.S. A report from the U.S Government Accountability Office showed that 70 percent of guns seized in Mexico by Mexican authorities and submitted for tracing have a U.S. origin. This percentage remains consistent, said Bradley Engelbert, a spokesperson for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. And the Trump has administration has recently taken steps to ease rules on gun exports, which enables manufacturers to sell guns in Mexico and Central America countries.

A report from the Center of American Progress found that the United States was the primary source of weapons used in crime in Mexico and Canada. Other countries in Central America can also trace a large proportion of guns seized in crimes to the United States. For example, the report found that from 2014 to 2016, 49 percent of crime guns seized in El Salvador were originally purchased in the U.S. In Honduras, 45 percent of guns recovered in crime scenes were traced to the United States as well.

The right to own guns is in Mexico’s constitution, as it is in the U.S., but Mexican gun laws are highly restrictive. The Mexican army is the only entity allowed to sell guns in the country, either to private security firms, private citizens or to local police. In fact, there is only one legal gun store in the country, which is also run by the Mexican army and located in Mexico City. Assault weapons and any weapon more powerful than a .38 caliber gun is banned from personal use, with few exceptions. Only the military is allowed to use high-powered firearms.

To apply for a gun license, applicants must have a crime-free record, employment, and to have served in the military, according to Mexico’s federal law of arms and explosives. But the army sells the majority of weapons to law enforcement entities, according to public records obtained by Stop U.S. Arms to Mexico, an organization whose goal is to stop illegal gun trade in Mexico. From 2010 to 2016, the army sold 166,763 firearms to local police forces — 55 percent of all the guns sold by the army during that period. Twenty percent – 67,725 – were retail sales to individuals.

The flow of guns from the U.S. to Mexico is getting lost in the border debate | PBS NewsHour

So, the US has 300 million guns; from 2010 to 2016, there were 67,000 guns sold to individuals in Mexico, who all had a crime-free record and had been in the military.

Tell me more about this problem of black market guns from Mexico to the US! Right after you tell me about the huge problem of the US sending cocaine into Colombia and maple syrup into Canada.

It's one thing for you to have such incredibly misinformed 'facts'.

It's another for you to get the information above and not listen and keep spouting the false information.

 

[BlueTex]

We cant even stop the illegal importation of human beings into this country. What makes you think that you can prevent boxes of bullets from getting in? There will ALWAYS be a black market for forbidden fruit Tex.

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I’m sure there will always be black market ammo around but doubt most of the criminals who buy guns today will be able to afford the price of ammo for the typical gun crime committed today.


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[Rich2018]

I’m sure there will always be black market ammo around but doubt most of the criminals who buy guns today will be able to afford the price of ammo for the typical gun crime committed today.


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And that ammo will probably come from Russia or China....half way around the globe.

You could of course trust home made ammo - I wouldn't.

 

[BlueTex]

And that ammo will probably come from Russia or China....half way around the globe.

You could of course trust home made ammo - I wouldn't.

How much black market ammo would you expect to see each year? If smokeless powders and primers are not available, we wouldn’t see much home made ammo.


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[Rich2018]

How much black market ammo would you expect to see each year? If smokeless powders and primers are not available, we wouldn’t see much home made ammo.


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Certainly not enough to match the 10 billion rounds we see each year currently.

I'd guess only professional criminal gangs could afford smuggled ammunition and even if a private gun owner could, the risk of associating with criminals and/or being caught would be too great.

 

[Fledermaus]

What a joke! There is a NEGLIGIBLE issue of guns from Mexico to the US - there is a MASSIVE issue of guns from the US to Mexico. What do you think Fast and Furious was? Tracking some of the massive guns bought in the US for drug cartels in Mexico. An estimated 70 percent of guns in Mexico came from the US. What's trump doing? EXPANDING gun sales.





The flow of guns from the U.S. to Mexico is getting lost in the border debate | PBS NewsHour

So, the US has 300 million guns; from 2010 to 2016, there were 67,000 guns sold to individuals in Mexico, who all had a crime-free record and had been in the military.

Tell me more about this problem of black market guns from Mexico to the US! Right after you tell me about the huge problem of the US sending cocaine into Colombia and maple syrup into Canada.

It's one thing for you to have such incredibly misinformed 'facts'.

It's another for you to get the information above and not listen and keep spouting the false information.

That is why Mexicans don't need manufacturers at this point.

 

[Fledermaus]

Certainly not enough to match the 10 billion rounds we see each year currently.

I'd guess only professional criminal gangs could afford smuggled ammunition and even if a private gun owner could, the risk of associating with criminals and/or being caught would be too great.

Correct. The criminals will remain stocked while lawful citizens go without.

 

[Fledermaus]

Most illegal immigration to the USA is people who arrive legally and outstay their visas.

Ammunition and guns are hard to get past an x-ray machine. They're fairly heavy too.

How many Xray machines along the Rio Grande?

You really know nothing of the border.... Do you?

 

[Rich2018]

Agreed, but no LW anti-gunner will ever admit it. Sure, they might even own guns or, like Pelosi, have so much money they hire body guards, but for others they seek to disarm and control them. If a few women have to be rape, they don't care as long as they can empower the Federal government with more control over the population.

And what do you care if a few thousand people are killed by guns every year?

 

[Divine_Wind]

And what do you care if a few thousand people are killed by guns every year?

I do care just like I care about the 33,000 killed in car accidents and the 22,000 American who don't use guns to commit suicide. You only care if a person is killed by a gun regardless of the fact 2/3s of them are suicides. That fact has been well established by your own words.

 

[zsu2357]

Don't include me in vigilante crap.

I think you got this confused with another thread.

 

[ecofarm]

I think you got this confused with another thread.

I guess I was too tired to deal with it.

We shoot to stop. Not to kill. Our objective is never to kill. Killing as an objective is insane. Sometimes, people die as a result of defensive actions. That's unfortunate and nobody's fault but their own. But it is not the objective.

The optimal outcome is Enlightenment and redemption. It could happen for anyone. The optimal outcome is not death.

Intentionally inflicting death is not anyone's job and it's not something that helps society. It is not justice. Vigilante bs harms the second amendment. It changes the focus from a natural right to self defense to blood lust.

I don't partake in any vigilante crap. It's counter productive to our gun rights.

 

[zsu2357]

=Rich2018;1071113751]

The right to sdelf defense is not a license to kill. You are not James Bond.

That's what the right of self defense is if need be.

If you discover/disturb an intruder in/on your property, you can only use lethal force to save your life (or being raped). You cannot use lethal force to protect property (some caveats) and you most definitely cannot use lethal force for retribution.

Now if I find an intruder on my patio or in my backyard 911 will be called. Now in my house at zero dark stupid that is another matter altogether. And if armed well he was in the wrong place, that is not being a vigilante if you so choose to call it that. And no I'm not worried about being raped maybe you are, I'm not.

So if you shoot an intruder and he's bleeding on the floor, you cannot shoot him in the head for a coup-de-grace (as revenge or to prevent future crimes, including potential rapes)

Did I say anything about a coup-de-grâce Only way that happens though would be if my wife or daughter were killed.

If you do, then congratulations, you've just committed a murder 1 felony.

At that point I would be congratulating myself. And given circumstances it wouldn't be murder 1.

 

[zsu2357]

=Rich2018;1071114780]Let them own what they want and close the stable door after the horse has bolted approach


Yeah, that's not working

Seems to be working fine. Are you up for re-election or what spouting your drivel? But it does seem to work okay except for in the DEM controlled cities.

How about being proactive and banning guns and arrest anyone who refuses to hand his/her guns in ?

How about you being the one to put boot to wood?

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Hmm 7000 grains to a pound equals 127 .223 bullets (the part that goes down the barrel)rounding off to the nearest bullet.
Or 56 9mm
Or 56 7.62x39
Actually it's not worth it.

437.50 grains in an ounce.
7000 grains in one pound.

 

[zsu2357]

That's a constant myth from the gun nuts. Where do you think criminals get their guns? Largely FROM LEGAL GUN OWNERS. When you reduce number of guns, you reduce the number criminals have. Guns don't magically appear in criminals' hands.

The very same can be said about you guys. You sit around it seems and spin the same stories. Yet you guys have the absolute unmitigated supreme gall to tell us how we are oh so very wrong and you are right without question.

Now there are some Liberals here and one in particular that sees it how it is( and that one is not one of you guys)and there's a Progressive...don't get exited and piss yourself Craig it's not you, that seems to have an understanding of gun rights.

 

[zsu2357]

Far easier would be to ban the importation, manufacture and sales of ammunition and ammunition components within the US. No need to collect any guns at all..

And you really think it wouldn't pour out of basements,garages hell even caves. And yes it would pour across the borders of Mexico and Canada. A very long open border and a lot of smugglers looking to make a lot of money. What are they going to do search every ship that puts in?

 

[zsu2357]

=Rich2018;1071114967]Use law enforcement and their bases of operations. Give gun owners a reasonable amount of time to hand in 300-350 million guns. It would probably take months.

Sorta like Virginia's gov. Northam's in a bind. Almost the whole state is a 2A sanctuary. I believe he's saying now ARs well "assault weapons" can be Grandfathered in but no new ones can be sold. Using LEOs is a non starter not just Virginia but the whole country.

Use data like sales records of ammunition and public tip offs to conduct searches - it would probably take a few years
(impose heavy fines and/or prison sentences on anyone holding an illegal gun)

Public tip offs? The first few times that happened people would be made an example of. And I don't mean the gun owner.

Declare occasional gun "amnesties"

Yeah right. Oh here is my gun I didn't turn in last year. Oh WHAT'S MY NAME?

I don't think there are too many guns coming in from Mexico - do you have any figures ?
I think China would be the biggest source of illegal guns....so search imports from China.

Mexico would be balls deep. Think of all guns in central America that would be worth a fortune up here. And they would sail right into the Port of Portland or Vancouver BC. Think they are going to declare they are carrying guns. Same with China they would use a proxy. Big money makes it worth it.

 

[zsu2357]

How many Xray machines along the Rio Grande?

You really know nothing of the border.... Do you?

Really I think Rich is to concerned about the wrong border. You can drive semi rigs across the Canadian border and I don't mean at ENTRY POINTS.

 

[zsu2357]

And what do you care if a few thousand people are killed by guns every year?

A few thousand? That sounds considerably less than the 40,000 you like to tout. And like you are really one to talk about caring? I just bet you cry rivers at night when you go to bed don't you.

 

[TurtleDude]

A few thousand? That sounds considerably less than the 40,000 you like to tout. And like you are really one to talk about caring? I just bet you cry rivers at night when you go to bed don't you.

He is on record saying two things that should be considered any time he starts demanding we give up our guns

1) he wants to disarm victims of violent criminals

2) he admits that a gun ban would disarm victims long before it would disarm criminals.

so he doesn't care if people are murdered or robbed by violent criminals as long as his scheme would -maybe many years down the road, disarm some criminals. So here is what we are dealing with when it comes down to the gun banners

1) their schemes will disarm good people

2) good people will be left defenseless for months or years before criminals are "disarmed"

3) and there is a faith based belief that gun bans will disarm people who already own guns illegally and can import and traffic contraband like narcotics,


So on one hand we have a sure bet that law abiding citizens-for the most part-will be disarmed

vs

the faith based hope that criminals will be disarmed by banning stuff they already cannot own

 

[Dittohead not!]

That's a constant myth from the gun nuts. Where do you think criminals get their guns? Largely FROM LEGAL GUN OWNERS. When you reduce number of guns, you reduce the number criminals have. Guns don't magically appear in criminals' hands.

I'm not so sure you can back that one up. They buy guns at gun shows, from private persons, anywhere they don't have to have a background check. Require a background check for all gun and ammunition purchases, and you've eliminated much of the supply of guns to criminals.

Of course, there will still be some stolen guns around, no way to get around that except to require owners to take precautions against theft and report any thefts immediately.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Far easier would be to ban the importation, manufacture and sales of ammunition and ammunition components within the US. No need to collect any guns at all..

That would work about as well as the ban on growing and importing marijuana.