23 face domestic terrorism charges after arrests in ‘Cop City’ protests at planned police training site in Atlanta

[samiam5211]

We do have that type of Nazi here...they just aren't government endorsed....although they got the wink and nod from Trump.

Antifa and Nazi's in the US are each a subset of the same problem.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

They burned a construction vehicle. That isn't self defense.

I'm not saying that is analogous to the situation in this thread, but only as an example of where I think violent protests are morally defensible.

I was only asking if you thought the violence used against the authorities in Iran is justified to better understand your perspective. I specifically said I was not using this as an analogy to the protests here.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I support a people being oppressed by Russia in an unjust invasion. Russia is intent on genocide...

The people of Atlanta have been killed, unjustly, by police who have increasingly become more militarized. The argument that pacifism is the only legit form of protest often ends up with your group being wiped out. One would think you would get that from your Ukraine stance. Sometimes a militarized group, like the police, does get the message when confronted by direct action more so than say, sitting on a bus.

 

[ClaraD]

Maybe, but are they required to?

I don't know what the law is here.

normally rezoning is required to be public. Those who opposed it were removed from the advisory committee. The location of this facility will be at the Old Atlanta Prison Farm.

The 2021 report by the Atlanta Community Press Collective found evidence of, "systemic abuse, torture, overcrowding, neglect, and racialized violence throughout the prison farm's history, as well as the possibility that unmarked graves of prisoners exist on the grounds."

 

[ClaraD]

I was only asking if you thought the violence used against the authorities in Iran is justified to better understand your perspective. I specifically said I was not using this as an analogy to the protests here.

To be quite honest, I have not closely followed the Iranian protests. There are reasons for me not following it that are personal.

 

[mrjurrs]

Only 2 of the 35 live in the state... as I was saying in the other thread about this, we import in our problems.

Don't be so cocky...

Trafficking ring moved nearly 300 guns from Georgia to Pennsylvania, prosecutors say

An Atlanta rapper is one of 11 people facing federal charges in connection with an alleged straw-purchasing scheme, according to records and interviews.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[ClaraD]

The people of Atlanta have been killed, unjustly, by police who have increasingly become more militarized. The argument that pacifism is the only legit form of protest often ends up with your group being wiped out. One would think you would get that from your Ukraine stance. Sometimes a militarized group, like the police, does get the message when confronted by direct action more so than say, sitting on a bus.

What does burning a construction vehicle resolve?

 

[Chomsky]

The city owns the property...it isn't in the city. These residents live right next door to the facility that is planned....so, they are in the unincorporated area. Perhaps you read it wrong?

No, I understand. But they're residents of other municipal jurisdictions.

It says right in the link that it will include a black hawk landing pad....what do you think a black hawk is:?

Which is why I don't trust your source. Remember, you source claims the purpose of the facility is to "oppress individuals of colour" or some-such.

Are you sure this is what your civilian authorities will be flying:

Or, is it possible it looks more like this below, similar to what's in mine and other American cities:

Chomsky, the population around that facility is 75% black. They already have one shooting range there....do you think that psychological warfare is not real?

I don't know if I buy into his.

Those residents are not even from the city, nor subject to ATL policing, besides my not necessarily buying your basic premise in the racial angle.

Why set it up there and not in Buckhead?

I don't know Atlanta.

However,

1] Is there 300 acres of undeveloped city land in Buckhead?
2] If there is the land available, what are the numbers between the two sites in terms of forgone tax revenues?

 

[ClaraD]

No, I understand. But they're residents of other municipal jurisdictions.



Which is why I don't trust your source. Remember, you source claims the purpose of the facility is to "oppress individuals of colour" or some-such.

Are you sure this is what your civilian authorities will be flying:

Or, is it possible it looks more like this below, similar to what's in mine and other American cities:

I don't know if I buy into his.

Those residents are not even from the city, nor subject to ATL policing, besides my not necessarily buying your basic premise in the racial angle.



I don't know Atlanta.

But,

1] Is there 300 acres of undeveloped city land in Buckhead?
2] If there is the land available, what are the numbers between the two sites in terms of forgone tax revenues?

The residents that attended the rezoning meeting were 100% residents...and 70% opposed it. There is something called Google. It doesn't matter that you do not buy it. I wonder do you think that the police in Atlanta have worked to gain the trust of the population? Why would they want to build it on such a location as this? Especially one where unmarked graves are?

 

[Hamish Howl]

No, I understand. But they're residents of other municipal jurisdictions.



Which is why I don't trust your source. Remember, you source claims the purpose of the facility is to "oppress individuals of colour" or some-such.

Are you sure this is what your civilian authorities will be flying:

Or, is it possible it looks more like this below, similar to what's in mine and other American cities:

The lower picture is not a blackhawk. This is what a stripped-down blackhawk looks like.

 

[Hamish Howl]

The residents that attended the rezoning meeting were 100% residents...and 70% opposed it. There is something called Google. It doesn't matter that you do not buy it. I wonder do you think that the police in Atlanta have worked to gain the trust of the population? Why would they want to build it on such a location as this? Especially one where unmarked graves are?

Doesn't justify mob acts.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

What does burning a construction vehicle resolve?

This is making the assumption that "resolutions" always happen from pacifism. I don't think the protestors think that burning a bulldozer in and of itself will cause a "resolution". It is as if you now suddenly have no idea how protest works. A protest in and of itself does not resolve anything. If you want to go on with rhetorical bs....have at it. Whether it is a monkey-wrencher destroying a govt bulldozer or privately owned that is being used to clear a forest, the point is to show the cost to that party what their action(s) will involve.

 

[Chomsky]

Because if you view the state and society as the same thing, then any action against the state is an attack on society. And if attacking the state = attacking society, then it is never moral to oppose the state.

Hm. I must admit that's an interesting argument.

Obviously there's exceptions provided for errant government individuals or those acting unConstitutionally, but I can see where you derive your argument from and won't fault it.

That's why authoritarians always try to make this logical connection. That way you can frame enemies of the state as enemies to society.

I don't believe the interests of the state are the same as the interests of society,

Care to share your rationale for the bolded?

(After your rebuttal in the section above, I'm almost afraid to ask!)

and I don't believe the interests of society are the same as the interests of individuals.

Society, functioning well, will at least attempt to provide for the collective interests of individuals. But you are right, 'no' society will not always be in concert with the interests of each specific individual. I agree.

--

I get the feeling you've put some thought into this.

 

[braindrain]

Really? Is there anyone who is?

Destruction occurs as a result of unheard complaints.

This erupted into violence, but we do not see what provoked it and, as I have demonstrated there is a **** of a lot more history to this than orriginaly stated. Also, there are outstanding charges of manslaughter against the Atlanta Police and some stories assert that the cops have been secretive about exactly what is being trained there and whether it fits with civil police regulations. These guys appear to be rigging for a war.

So after years of being beta up, killed, lied to, etc., things got violent. As I see it NOT ONE THING HAS CHANGED SINCE I LEFT IN 1967! It's just more violent.

Just read a few of stillballins posts. Pretty clear he is perfectly fine with all of that.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Here we have a feckless centrist to tell us that the Nazis and the anti-Nazis are both equally bad and also on the same side.

Right we shouldn’t treat This equally, the heroes of the January 6th electoral justice protest were good, the criminals trying to subvert police training facilities are bad. No equivelance at all

 

[braindrain]

No, he said they are on the same side and referred to them as leftists.

Yes the same side as in one side is extremists and the other isn’t. You are not understanding what he said.

But even leaning that aside that is still not claiming that all the violence is from the left. Unless you think the only two people who can cause violence are antifa or the proud boys.

 

[Chomsky]

The city owns the property...it isn't in the city. These residents live right next door to the facility that is planned....so, they are in the unincorporated area. Perhaps you read it wrong?

It says right in the link that it will include a black hawk landing pad....what do you think a black hawk is:?


Chomsky, the population around that facility is 75% black. They already have one shooting range there....do you think that psychological warfare is not real? Why set it up there and not in Buckhead?

Whoa! Did I perhaps misunderstand you, or the articles?

The city owns the property, but it's not part of the city? Is that right? How does that work?

 

[braindrain]

Would you say that Houston is larger than Atlanta? Their training facility is 70 acres.

Does the Houston training site have all the same training facilities in one location.

 

[Chomsky]

Would you say that Houston is larger than Atlanta? Their training facility is 70 acres.

I have no idea what Houston does, but less than half a square mile for both departments, and including a high-speed track, doesn't sound to far out to me.

And, why are you against your police training? It's in everyone's best interest for them to be well trained, isn't it?

 

[Tigerace117]

Right we shouldn’t treat This equally, the heroes of the January 6th electoral justice protest were good, the criminals trying to subvert police training facilities are bad. No equivelance at all

The January 6th thugs would have been chucked screaming out of helicopters—after being extensively tortured—had they tried something similar in your hero Pinochet’s Chile.

 

[braindrain]

normally rezoning is required to be public. Those who opposed it were removed from the advisory committee. The location of this facility will be at the Old Atlanta Prison Farm.

The 2021 report by the Atlanta Community Press Collective found evidence of, "systemic abuse, torture, overcrowding, neglect, and racialized violence throughout the prison farm's history, as well as the possibility that unmarked graves of prisoners exist on the grounds."

What bearing does the historical actions of the prison farm have to do with a training site.

 

[Chomsky]

I just watched the video.

Off to jail with them.

My thoughts, exactly.

In this case the video did say more than words, I think. Often, they don't.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Don't be so cocky...

Trafficking ring moved nearly 300 guns from Georgia to Pennsylvania, prosecutors say

An Atlanta rapper is one of 11 people facing federal charges in connection with an alleged straw-purchasing scheme, according to records and interviews.

www.nbcnews.com

I never said Georgia is incapable of imports and exports.

 

[Hamish Howl]

My thoughts, exactly.

In this case the video did say more than words, I think. Often, they don't.

This kinda looks more like a breach of the peace than domestic terrorism. But all the same, off to jail.

 

[Chomsky]

The residents that attended the rezoning meeting were 100% residents...and 70% opposed it. There is something called Google. It doesn't matter that you do not buy it. I wonder do you think that the police in Atlanta have worked to gain the trust of the population? Why would they want to build it on such a location as this? Especially one where unmarked graves are?

Residents of what? Who owns the land? Which municipalities?

I'm not understanding your argument in terms of land ownership and the relation with your "residents" at all.

If I get time, I may look into your argument's claims.