$21/hour, Union membership, and 5 weeks paid vacation. Where do I sign up?

[Linc]

I've never gone to the Obesity King--supersize anyone?
Americans have a nasty habit of subliminally boycotting someone who gets away with what they don't--paying American taxes.
It wasn't President Obama or my Senator Durbin who changed Walgreen's mind about playing Romney--it was Illinois folks where they're based .

So you actually believe that Burger King is going to close down all it's US locations?

We are going to have to go to Canada to get a Whopper?

 

[imagep]

Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy?

I don't know about you or him, but I don't.

I don't believe that there are any government-less countries that have a better standard of living than the US though.

Can you post a list of small government or no government countries that would be preferable to the US to live in? I just want to be as smart about these things as you are.

 

[imagep]

Like with hard work. If they get off their asses and work hard, they don't need to take out massive loans for college in the first place. I did it. Lots of people did it. Everyone can do it.

So just because you had to struggle (as did I), you want others to also have the same struggle, even though it is not economically necessary?

 

[What if...?]

College shouldn't be free. It's a test. Do you have the motivation and discipline to earn a degree and smart enough to do it in something useful, if not, too bad.

You know, for all this "free" **** that you socialist want handed out, there are a lot of hard working people paying for it. We need to quit that and let the damned lazy, stupid socialist types that think they are owed something without earning rot.

Sorry man, I just don't buy the idea that life is just about fighting to build the biggest money pile.

And those who created colleges considered them places where human knowledge is expanded and disseminated, not places to be tested for fitness to play Monopoly with the planet.

 

[Cephus]

So just because you had to struggle (as did I), you want others to also have the same struggle, even though it is not economically necessary?

Yes. Yes I do. It builds character.

 

[DVSentinel]

We don't need workers who produce stuff at a bargain price in America?

Or are you saying that you would prefer to have to fly to China to get a Big Mac?

Give those jobs back to high school kids and losers. There will always be both. Those types of jobs were never intended to be careers. If someone is too stupid to realize that, then they get what they earn for themselves.

 

[DVSentinel]

So just because you had to struggle (as did I), you want others to also have the same struggle, even though it is not economically necessary?

If they struggle for it and earn it, then they will have pride in it.

Not economically necessary? How so? By stealing the money that those who worked hard struggled earned and give to those too lazy to do for themselves?

 

[RGacky3]

That doens't just include fast food. cost of food in general is higher there.
Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And Denmark

so much for making 21/hr. you have to make 21/per just to live.

Again, double the pay ... it isn't double the cost of living, so the worker is still on top.

yes it does. if i am not paying 21 and say 10 i can lower my prices and attract more people. if i am having to pay 21 dollars for 1 person that means i have to try and sell 8 dollar big macs in order to cover the cost. people are stupid for paying 7/8 bucks for a big mac.

Or you just take a cut in profits .... but again ... they are getting MORE BUISINESS.

not having as many problems doens't mean they are having no problems.

No **** ... it's not heaven.

yes you are you are capped at whatever the union can get you. the only raise you get is the one that your union can get. that raise applies to everyone. so joe slow over there that does half the work you do gets the same raise.

without a union are have more upward mobility. see i get a bigger raise than the guy that doesn't do anything.

No that isn't true, if Your boss gives you a raise, you're gonna get a raise.

With a Union you're JUST AS upwardly mobil. Infact moreso because you have more job Security.

way to ignore the link i sent you. that 29k a year included tax refunds. actually it costs 8%+ year in taxes.
you have a 25% VAT tax that isn't calculated into that figure either.
the education isn't free it cost tax money to run it.

i get about 5 weeks of vacation a year.

It's free after taxes, so the point is you arn't including education and Healthcare into cost of living, that puts the USA way way up.

I'm sure you get 5 weeks, the vast vast majority don't-

making the same 21 here in the US. they have 35k or so compared to 29.

then calculate that it costs less to live here than there and they make out a bit better.

We're talking about MAcdonalds workers .... how much do they make in the US? (not $21).

 

[Fiddytree]

Paid vacation and many other benefits, that's impressive. But like many Republicans have to be told when they start spouting off about high starting wages and signing bonuses in North Dakota's oil boom counties, the wage you are paid means very little if the cost of living is incredibly high and all you can afford is a net loss in quality of living space.

 

[mpg]

Okay, what nations have the highest standards of living? And what do those nations have in common?

Why beat a dead horse?

 

[mpg]

Wealthy countries that have little government? You mean like Somolia and the Congo?

Those countries are wealthier than Denmark or the USA?

The USA has a small government compared to Europe. There is a well established correlation between economic freedom and wealth, and according to the laws of supply and demand, it's no coincidence.

 

[mpg]

I don't know about you or him, but I don't.

I don't believe that there are any government-less countries that have a better standard of living than the US though.

Can you post a list of small government or no government countries that would be preferable to the US to live in? I just want to be as smart about these things as you are.

OECD iLibrary: Statistics / Society at a Glance / 2011 / Median equivalised income of OECD countries varies between USD 5 000 and 34 000

List of countries by economic freedom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The US has slid down in the economic freedom rankings. We didn't become #2 on the first list because of our current level of economic freedom.

Links like these have been posted on this site countless times. How could you have 15k posts and somehow miss them?

 

[ocean515]

Just like generations will be paying for that $60/semester education next door in Germany, too. But what you're not getting is that the overall benefit to the nation by having a better-educated populace is worth much more than the few extra dollars each person has to pay in taxes.

Unless, of course, you feel that having a less-educated populace (and all the problems that come with it) is an acceptable sacrifice for you to save a few extra dollars in taxes....

LOL

Bless the progressive and the never ending snarky comments. As Denmark struggles to keep their deficit spending within the confines of the mandates from the EU, and limps along with it's massive social contract, I'll leave the benefits of higher education to those who truely want it, rather than to those who have nothing better to do.

There is a reason Denmark fast tracks green cards to immigrants with Masters level degrees. It seems there is quite a lack of them in the country. Perhaps you can offer a suggestion as to why this is true, since in Denmark, free higher education doesn't appear to have much value.

 

[imagep]

The USA has a small government compared to Europe. There is a well established correlation between economic freedom and wealth, and according to the laws of supply and demand, it's no coincidence.

People in Somolia are pretty free, they don't have an effective government at all. So are they rich?

And do people in Denmark have a lower standard of living than in the US?

There are different types of "economically free". You are associating economically free with low or non-existent taxes. Denmark was recently chosen to be the free'est country economically, but yet it has lot's of taxes. Sometimes taxes can make a society economically free'er than not having taxes.

Look up a list of countries sorted by GDP/capital. You will find countries that have invested in things like infrastructure and education at the top of the list, and country's that didn't invest in those things towards the bottom.

 

[prometeus]

I know it is a difficult question, but again, are you advocating my relationship with my employer or employee, whichever is applicable, be controlled by:

The market (a)

or

The government (b)

Question 2:

Should my decision to join a club to negociate for me with my employee or employer, as applicable, be:

My decision (a)

or

Someone elses decision (b)

Choose one answer for each question. a or b

Do you honestly believe that the "market" can really decide or controll in an equitable way anything?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

No, we only pay because of idiot liberals and progressives that wont treat them like the deserve and have earned for themselves. Take federal land, give the some tools, seeds and axes, if they want to survive, they work for it, if not, they will make good fertilizer for the next bunch of socialist morons.

Expand the death penalty and we would have a lot less criminals to worry about.

The only consequence I have to pay for them being homeless and becoming thieves is that I might have to shoot one every now and then. But hell, .44 magnum cartriges are a lot cheaper than taxes for "social" programs for people who are stupid and lazy.

1. Red states generally receive more in federal funding than they pay out in federal taxes, whereas blue states generally pay out more in federal taxes than they receive in federal funding...and those of us in blue states would really like it if y'all would stop depending on those of us in blue states to provide for you.

2. Try comparing the crime rates in states with the death penalty as compared to states without the death penalty. Which states have lower crime rates? Look it up. Take some responsibility to prove to yourself if what you believe is true.

And btw - the "justice" you get from the death penalty does not justify the sentencing of innocent people to death row...and there have been MANY. Here's a list of 144 people who were sentenced to death...and who were later exonerated for the crimes for which they were accused. In other words, that's 144 INNOCENT people who would have been executed if liberals and progressives hadn't stood up for them.

 

[Ikari]

You're aware, of course, that the cost of food at McDonald's in Denmark, and most European countries, is significantly higher than in the US, right? About 30% higher, or about $1.20 more, for a Big Mac - I'm guessing a McDonalds sells a fair number of Big Macs in an hour, in any location.

Denmark - 2012 Big Mac Index

I'm sure you're also aware that vacation time in the US is among the lowest in the world, regardless of whether you're unionized or not whereas vacation time in Scandinavian countries is among the highest in the world, unionized or not.

Finally, I'm sure that you're particularly aware that taxation levels in Denmark and other Scandinavian countries is significantly higher than in the US and is payable by a higher percentage of the population in Denmark than in the US.

Personal Income Tax in Denmark | CFE portal

Indeed, if you want the government to be your guardian and your keeper, the Scandinavian countries would be your best port of call. If, however, you'd rather make your own way in life, be more responsible for your own well being, and capable of great success, the US should be your nation of choosing.

The government is already our "guardian and keeper", look at all the rules and laws they have against us. Spying and incarcerating more people per populace than any place else. Keeping us "safe" from terrorists and controlling property, taxes, corporate handout, etc.

If they are already our guardian and keeper, then maybe we should have some of these other perks as well.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Are you concerned with the amount per hour people make or how much they have to live on after? Gross or net?

I'm concerned about the quality of life that people have...and Denmark's population has a lower rate of poverty, higher level of educational attainment, much lower crime rate, longer life expectancy...AND five weeks paid vacation from their jobs so they can spend some real quality time with their kids.

Just because someone does things differently than the way you think they should doesn't mean that they're wrong...and if their standard of living is better (as it obviously is), then maybe, just maybe you should consider if their way just might be better.

But be aware that the second you do make that leap of understanding, you'll be rejected by your fellow conservatives. Ask me how I know that.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Why beat a dead horse?

Why not answer the simple question?

 

[prometeus]

1. Red states generally receive more in federal funding than they pay out in federal taxes, whereas blue states generally pay out more in federal taxes than they receive in federal funding...and those of us in blue states would really like it if y'all would stop depending on those of us in blue states to provide for you.

You are taking this way too personally. He was criticizing the "idiot liberals and progressives" and I agree those should be stopped, they would give the house away. We should all be thankful that we still have true intellectual conservatives who believe that true justice comes from the barrel of a 44. They help us maintain what we now have.

 

[CanadaJohn]

The government is already our "guardian and keeper", look at all the rules and laws they have against us. Spying and incarcerating more people per populace than any place else. Keeping us "safe" from terrorists and controlling property, taxes, corporate handout, etc.

If they are already our guardian and keeper, then maybe we should have some of these other perks as well.

That's fair - but that is likely more the position of those on the left of the political spectrum. If you think that would be a particularly popular platform, perhaps you could convince the Democrats or in your case Libertarian Party to take up that cause as their main election proposal. We'll then see how popular it really would be.

 

[Fearandloathing]

LOL

Bless the progressive and the never ending snarky comments. As Denmark struggles to keep their deficit spending within the confines of the mandates from the EU, and limps along with it's massive social contract, I'll leave the benefits of higher education to those who truely want it, rather than to those who have nothing better to do.

There is a reason Denmark fast tracks green cards to immigrants with Masters level degrees. It seems there is quite a lack of them in the country. Perhaps you can offer a suggestion as to why this is true, since in Denmark, free higher education doesn't appear to have much value.

Would you by chance have links to any of that?

All countries except the United States who promote illegals, offer incentives to Masters degrees, doctors, specialty nurses...if they have a mandate to serve the public in the best manner possible. Canada has had an on-going shortage of dermatologists as the system has not graduated enough, so they get fast tracked. Being the second largest nation on earth, we do not have enough GP's and our vast rural regions suffer a lack. Rather than go on carrying the cost of flying doctors in and patients out, we recruit doctors and and pay them bonuses.

One view of Michael Moore's "Sicko" should show anyone just how badly such countries have been deliberately mis-represented.

 

[jimbo]

Do you honestly believe that the "market" can really decide or controll in an equitable way anything?

I believe that I can control my own life far better than anyone else. The market system lets me do that. Being forced to let someone decide for me does not.

I would also guess that equitable has a different meaning for you and me.

But I was trying to get GC to answer a couple of yes or no questions. Obviously he cannot or will not, so he has deferred to you.

So the same questions - (a) or (b)

 

[Ikari]

That's fair - but that is likely more the position of those on the left of the political spectrum. If you think that would be a particularly popular platform, perhaps you could convince the Democrats or in your case Libertarian Party to take up that cause as their main election proposal. We'll then see how popular it really would be.

The Republocrats work on corporatism, so the Democrats won't really move against large corporations (though they will run their mouths about doing so, that way they keep up a pretense of being different). In the end, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with unions. A man has right to the sweat of his brow, a man has right to contract, a man has right to freedom of association. They are much like government, a necessary base but with large potential for corruption. But the fundamental is sound and well within the rights and liberties of the individual.

 

[prometeus]

I believe that I can control my own life far better than anyone else.

I am certain you do as do most of us.

The market system lets me do that.

No, the way our nation is set up with the freedoms we have lets you do that. The market system influences your interaction with others in the system and everything points to the fact that it can not regulate itself.

Being forced to let someone decide for me does not.

The decision is not about your own life, but about how whiting society we interact for business purposes.

I would also guess that equitable has a different meaning for you and me.

Perhaps, that is why it is important that we all play by the same rule.

But I was trying to get GC to answer a couple of yes or no questions. Obviously he cannot or will not, so he has deferred to you.

I can not speak for him, nor do I wish to and I do not believe anything was deferred to me. He will have to clarify it for himself.

So the same questions - (a) or (b)

Just so I am clear: What is the question?