100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combined

[Fletch]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

No it isn't.

You're appealing to thoroughly debunked gold standard ideology.

NO im not. Address what I said and not what you wish I had said and we might be able to have a discussion.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

NO im not. Address what I said and not what you wish I had said and we might be able to have a discussion.

Savings is NOT always equal to investment.

 

[Mach]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

Money saved isn't used in the economy.

If its saved for retirement, is it not simply spent later in life? I intend to use my retirement to fund retirement, is that not standard practice?

 

[Absentglare]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

If its saved for retirement, is it not simply spent later in life? I intend to use my retirement to fund retirement, is that not standard practice?

The longer the time between when a dollar is received and when that dollar is spent, the longer the time it is not contributing to the economy.

 

[David_N]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

If its saved for retirement, is it not simply spent later in life? I intend to use my retirement to fund retirement, is that not standard practice?

Post #29

 

[Fletch]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

The longer the time between when a dollar is received and when that dollar is spent, the longer the time it is not contributing to the economy.

People buying stocks and bonds doesn't help the economy? Me being able to fund my own retirement rather than rely upon taking wealth from others doesn't help the economy? What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Mach]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

People buying stocks and bonds doesn't help the economy? Me being able to fund my own retirement rather than rely upon taking wealth from others doesn't help the economy? What the hell are you talking about?

That's a good question, I was actually going to ask their take on that same thing. A LOT of our retirement (wealthy especially) are in stocks and bonds.

From prior discussions, investing in stocks/bonds doesn't seem to be all that different from savings at some level. The dollars don't go to company for wages/equipment, its really only turned to dollars when someone sells them, and then its up to them what they do with it. It seems like its "mostly just savings", but if an econ person has a better take, I'm all ears.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

People buying stocks and bonds doesn't help the economy? Me being able to fund my own retirement rather than rely upon taking wealth from others doesn't help the economy? What the hell are you talking about?

Tell me- does exchanging money for something (like a stock) somehow not qualify as spending money to you ...?

 

[Fletch]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

Tell me- does exchanging money for something (like a stock) somehow not qualify as spending money to you ...?

You are the one making the argument against that, not me. Unless you hid your money in a mattress, saving is investing. Investing helps the economy. That is why I have no idea what point you two guys are trying to make.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

You are the one making the argument against that, not me. Unless you hid your money in a mattress, saving is investing. Investing helps the economy. That is why I have no idea what point you two guys are trying to make.

No, you don't seem to understand what happens to money that sits in a savings or checking account. The bank doesn't lend that money out. It can use that money to settle its reserve account for its outstanding loans, but it can also settle reserves with money from the fed. The outstanding loans are based on available borrowers, not available deposits.

Many retirement accounts are investments, but not all savings is investment.

 

[Fletch]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

No, you don't seem to understand what happens to money that sits in a savings or checking account. The bank doesn't lend that money out. It can use that money to settle its reserve account for its outstanding loans, but it can also settle reserves with money from the fed. The outstanding loans are based on available borrowers, not available deposits.

Many retirement accounts are investments, but not all savings is investment.

Ok, but is that what we are talking about here? I cant imagine that anyone who puts aside 10% of his income for 'savings' is putting it in a non interest bearing checking account or even a bank savings account that pays next to nothing. Savings, particularly for retirement, are invested in stocks and bonds.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

Ok, but is that what we are talking about here? I cant imagine that anyone who puts aside 10% of his income for 'savings' is putting it in a non interest bearing checking account or even a bank savings account that pays next to nothing. Savings, particularly for retirement, are invested in stocks and bonds.

Oh i agree with you that most of retirement savings is reinvested in some way.

The problem i have is when we start complaining about how poor people don't save money. I don't think this is a valid complaint. We can complain about some of their poor spending habits (like how they spend a lot of money on check cashing, payday loans, and money orders) but not so much about how they fail to save.

The reason they fail to save is because they contribute their income directly back into the economy, often in ways that end up working well for wealthy folks anyway because they're generally the ones selling the products and services. A big part of the reason for this is that they don't have all their needs met, and i'm using the term 'needs' loosely here, but i'm basically saying that they have insufficient income.

 

[gdgyva]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

The longer the time between when a dollar is received and when that dollar is spent, the longer the time it is not contributing to the economy.

Between my wife and I, we save a large chunk of our income

It is how we have built our wealth over a long period of time

We are nearing retirement, and our income will be cut to approx 1/4 to 1/5 of what it is now

We will move to a much lower cost of living area....and we will slowly use part of our portfolio to keep our standard of living where we want it

But unless something unforeseen happens that we havent prepared for, we actually will be leaving our children and grandchildren a tidy sum they can build upon

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

let me tell you about "average " americans

they dont save, because, well, they dont want to

we offer a 401k with a match....like most companies do

care to guess the % of employees that take advantage of it?

now remember....my employees averaged 77k in 2015....well more than most companies

i have diligently worked with the company overseeing the 401k to keep our expenses for the funds as low as possible (most are less than 1% per year....not bad for a small company)....and we keep everything easy to understand....

and yet, i cant seem to get participation over 28-29% of my employees

the owner and i have talked about it ad nauseum....and we just dont get it

it doesnt surprise me when i see statistics about savings anymore....

it just doesnt....everyone seems to want to live for now, and screw tomorrow

Too many grasshoppers and not enough ants.

But then, what would you expect from an impatient instant gratification society? One that been in such training for at least 1 generation, if not 2?

 

[gdgyva]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

That's a good question, I was actually going to ask their take on that same thing. A LOT of our retirement (wealthy especially) are in stocks and bonds.

From prior discussions, investing in stocks/bonds doesn't seem to be all that different from savings at some level. The dollars don't go to company for wages/equipment, its really only turned to dollars when someone sells them, and then its up to them what they do with it. It seems like its "mostly just savings", but if an econ person has a better take, I'm all ears.

partially right and partially wrong

when a company initially issues stock, and sells it on the marketplace, the majority of the time, the cash is used to expand the company in some way (equipment, acquisitions, etc)

now as people trade those shares....it is just cash to one, and the stock to another

but look at any s&p 500 company....see how many times they reissue stock over the life of the company....to pay down debt, to expand the company, to acquire other companies, and sometimes just to add to their cash position

sometimes stock trades do nothing overall for the economy.....and sometimes they are huge boons to the economy

just depends on the stock itself....

 

[bungleodeon]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

let me tell you about "average " americans

they dont save, because, well, they dont want to

we offer a 401k with a match....like most companies do

care to guess the % of employees that take advantage of it?

now remember....my employees averaged 77k in 2015....well more than most companies

i have diligently worked with the company overseeing the 401k to keep our expenses for the funds as low as possible (most are less than 1% per year....not bad for a small company)....and we keep everything easy to understand....

and yet, i cant seem to get participation over 28-29% of my employees

the owner and i have talked about it ad nauseum....and we just dont get it

it doesnt surprise me when i see statistics about savings anymore....

it just doesnt....everyone seems to want to live for now, and screw tomorrow

What percentage of your employees are in huge debt? I know that for some, saving for retirement and paying off all the debt incurred by college and family obligations, is just not possible. For me, I was unable to start saving for about 10 years after college, even though I was making a good living, because I had loans, CC debt, then I got a mortgage and a family, and higher insurance premiums, etc. etc. It became possible for me and it was a goal I worked towards, but I could see some people taking 10-25 years to ever get themselves out of the debt that college and a family can cause. Making even 80k a year, in a single earner household, that has 2 kids, a mortgage, and college debts could make someone still feel broke and living paycheck to paycheck.

Certainly there are people that could save more and choose not to, but I also believe people do want to save it's just difficult in our economy, especially for people that are starting from 0. I received virtually no financial help from the second I graduated high school. Debt piles up fast at school, not just loans, but credit cards. Social networking helped advance my career, and it generally does that for everyone, but when I was in college there was no facebook or linkedin, I had to go out and buy drinks and dinners and hang with the people that came from living situations that I hoped to attain one day. It was difficult paying for that while working 20 hours a week for peanuts. The debt I incurred just being a college student and trying to meet people ended up being well worth it, from a wife to a job, it helped me get everything I have today, but it still took me a long time to pay back all that I borrowed to maintain that lifestyle, and trust me, that lifestyle wasn't that lavish.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

Between my wife and I, we save a large chunk of our income

It is how we have built our wealth over a long period of time

We are nearing retirement, and our income will be cut to approx 1/4 to 1/5 of what it is now

We will move to a much lower cost of living area....and we will slowly use part of our portfolio to keep our standard of living where we want it

But unless something unforeseen happens that we havent prepared for, we actually will be leaving our children and grandchildren a tidy sum they can build upon

Yes, but the option of building sizable wealth is only available to those who have a sizable income.

And i think you are very wise in this respect and do not mean to disparage your behavior in any way there.

However, the point i was trying to make is that savings doesn't always continue to cycle in the economy. If you spend it on, say, partial ownership of a company (stock), then you might not be able to get it back (the stock price might plummet). That's because it's cycling in the economy. If you put it somewhere where there's no risk of not being able to get it back (like a savings account) then it's cycling in the economy less.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

If it came down to it, we have methods to make sure whatever we need to get spent is spent. Change a couple of outdated things and all of this nonsense goes away. You know this though. Hell, the real purpose of t-securities is to manage reserves.

I think we are missing the issue here. Using MMT to "change a couple of outdated things" does not in itself address savings behavior across income quintiles. By the same token, changes to Social Security alone will not itself solve this issue.

 

[David_N]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

I think we are missing the issue here. Using MMT to "change a couple of outdated things" does not in itself address savings behavior across income quintiles. By the same token, changes to Social Security alone will not itself solve this issue.

I never said it did. The discussion shifted to social security though, which is what I was referring to.

 

[Mr Person]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

WHO GIVES A ****?

PEOPLE WHO ARE AWARE OF WORLD HISTORY!

You see, such persons will be well aware that every single society in which wealth increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few destabalized as a result and fell apart.

Did they steal it?

Morality has nothing to do with it. The greater the wealth concentration, the greater destabalization. Totalitarian/monarchical regimes might be able to control things for a while, but eventually it collapses.

It is a bad thing to have great wealth disparity regardless of how praiseworthy the few people with all the wealth are.

 

[Thrilla]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

Money saved isn't used in the economy.

it isn't used currently in the economy.... but it's used in the future, usually after retirement.

today, there is money in the economy that was saved by past generations... probably more now than ever (due to the high number of retirees/boomers)


in any event, so what if CEO have saved more money than 41 families?... it doesn't matter.

 

[Renae]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

PEOPLE WHO ARE AWARE OF WORLD HISTORY!

You see, such persons will be well aware that every single society in which wealth increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few destabalized as a result and fell apart.




Morality has nothing to do with it. The greater the wealth concentration, the greater destabalization. Totalitarian/monarchical regimes might be able to control things for a while, but eventually it collapses.

It is a bad thing to have great wealth disparity regardless of how praiseworthy the few people with all the wealth are.

Yet your solution is theft and government control....

 

[Moot]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

Yet your solution is theft and government control....

The wealthy used the government to get rich and steal from the middleclass. So why not use the government to get the wealth back in the hands of the middleclass?

 

[Absentglare]

Yet your solution is theft and government control....

Completely dishonest bull****.

Theft is illegal. Governments levy taxes to help enforce justice and secure liberty.

Or do you think cavemen were more free than the average American taxpayer ?? Lol...

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Re: 100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combi

What do you guys think of this? If you want my opinion, it's only possible thanks to the poor spending more then they save. If the private sector as a whole decides to net save, the gap has to be filled. Unfortunately, we live in a world where people believe, and this is what I gather from listening to people, that the gap can just be magically filled without government deficit spending. Well, nothing's perfect..
100 CEOs Have More Saved Up for Retirement Than 41 Percent of U.S. Families Combined - The Atlantic

Aside from the whole wealthy thing, people are hard wired to value the short term, over the long term.
The savings rate in this country is rather low, so it's natural for there to be an imbalance.

It takes more novel thinking to start saving for long term and to put off material wants.