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100 000 americans died in states run by Democrats

Given how you guys do everything he says, all he'd have to do is say the word, and you guys would be masked up and staying home. Leadership isn't limited to mandating. Leadership should inspire people to do the right thing, or at minimum act in their own best interest. Trump could have done nothing and you still would have had a better result. Instead he drove chaos and confusion and partisanship into it. He lead you to make the wrong decisions. That's why you guys have the biggest **** show on the planet right now.

I don't think you're being fair here in saying that all Trump supporters are obedient minions. Maybe it's because they're all academics, but among the people I know well who are Trump supporters, I don't know anybody like that. And I also think that there definitely are unthinking, knee-jerking people on all sides. Nothing to be done about them, but mischaracterizing all on the basis of a noisy or violent few isn't fair, whether you're talking about "cults" or "Nazis" or ______.

The labeling is really counterproductive and diminishes civility on the board, and I wish in advance of November 3rd that everybody would make a personal commitment to being respectful and fair. There are really, really good people, including some of the people I love most in this world, who are on the "wrong" side. I'm sure this is true for most of us, whatever your "side" is.
 
Ahhhhhhhhhh, so if Biden were president and issued a national mask mandate, you're saying that Trump's supporters would listen to president Biden? By the way, age statistics clearly show that the virus is actually being spread by the young who are not wearing masks, going to bars, beaches, parties, and protests. The majority of these people are not Trump supporters, they are young liberal progressives. Hell, even Nancy refuses to honor the California mask mandate.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, so using hypotheticals and strawmen are your only ways to counter.

Stick to what happened, or admit to being a partisan hack not worth my time.
 
I don't think you're being fair here in saying that all Trump supporters are obedient minions. Maybe it's because they're all academics, but among the people I know well who are Trump supporters, I don't know anybody like that. And I also think that there definitely are unthinking, knee-jerking people on all sides. Nothing to be done about them, but mischaracterizing all on the basis of a noisy or violent few isn't fair, whether you're talking about "cults" or "Nazis" or ______.

The labeling is really counterproductive and diminishes civility on the board, and I wish in advance of November 3rd that everybody would make a personal commitment to being respectful and fair. There are really, really good people, including some of the people I love most in this world, who are on the "wrong" side. I'm sure this is true for most of us, whatever your "side" is.

Sorry, Bene, but there is no longer grounds upon which to be civil and fair at this point, when it comes to Trump. I can harbor all kinds of empathy for people who supported him in 2016, before they fully understood the depths to which he would eventually bring America. But I look at 2020 supporters in a different light. They're saying they want to continue down the path Trump has taken America. I have no understanding of such people, they are intellectually and morally and ideologically incompatible with me. What they support is specific enough to generalize.

To be clear, love has nothing to do with this, we both know we have to love everyone. But we don't have to listen to or support their politics, when those politics stand in direct contradiction to what we understand to be right. Sorry, Bene, this isn't 2016. People are deciding who they are on this one. If they have gone through everything Trump has wrought and still support him, then there's likely nothing he says that they will not support going forward. I stand by what I said.
 
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, so using hypotheticals and strawmen are your only ways to counter.

Stick to what happened, or admit to being a partisan hack not worth my time.

You could have just said that I won the debate or you could have liked my post. But, I'll take your complete and total surrender as such.
 
Sorry, Bene, but there is no longer grounds upon which to be civil and fair at this point, when it comes to Trump. I can harbor all kinds of empathy for people who supported him in 2016, before they fully understood the depths to which he would eventually bring America. But I look at 2020 supporters in a different light. They're saying they want to continue down the path Trump has taken America. I have no understanding of such people, they are intellectually and morally and ideologically incompatible with me. What they support is specific enough to generalize.

To be clear, love has nothing to do with this, we both know we have to love everyone. But we don't have to listen to or support their politics, when those politics stand in direct contradiction to what we understand to be right. Sorry, Bene, this isn't 2016. People are deciding who they are on this one. If they have gone through everything Trump has wrought and still support him, then there's likely nothing he says that they will not support going forward. I stand by what I said.

No, you don't have to support anybody's politics; that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is my objection is to precisely how you begin here--"but there is no longer grounds upon which to be civil and fair at this point."
 
You could have just said that I won the debate or you could have liked my post. But, I'll take your complete and total surrender as such.

:lamo I love the smell of failure in the morning....it smells like...Trump supporters.

Get back to me when you want to stay on topic. I see your woefully transparent tactics, and I reject them. When you want to actually answer my last serious post, I'll respond to that. This...well, this is just chuckle juice.
 
:lamo I love the smell of failure in the morning....it smells like...Trump supporters.

Get back to me when you want to stay on topic. I see your woefully transparent tactics, and I reject them. When you want to actually answer my last serious post, I'll respond to that. This...well, this is just chuckle juice.

To you, anything that is proof against your argument is a strawman.
 
No, you don't have to support anybody's politics; that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is my objection is to precisely how you begin here--"but there is no longer grounds upon which to be civil and fair at this point."

Bene, it's literally a matter of life and death at this point. After four years of incivility, you're not going to turn the boat around now. There is an ugly element that has emerged that needs to be stamped out, because it's killing you guys. There can be no ambiguity, and if that comes off as incivility, so be it. Healing begins after the cancer is removed. Maybe in 2019 you would have gotten a different response from me. 2020 is 2020, though. Every decent voice needs to be abruptly clear.
 
Who gives a **** where they died. You are approaching 200,000 deaths that your idiot-in-chief vacillated over for months. Instead of doing something, anything, he whined incessantly about 'bad numbers' not looking good for him, and regarded the pandemic as a political tool. He's great at blame shifting and appalling at accepting responsibility.

Just exactly what could Trump have done to prevent Covid from spreading in the US? It hit world wide, you really think we could stop it here, that Trump has magical powers that the rest of the world lacks? You have a problem with the death count blame China, the real culprit in this.
 
Does democrats feel save living in states run by democrats?

Or is it easier to blame 100 000 american deaths on Trump?

Thank you for providing another entry in my collection of "Idiotic Use of Statistics" collection.

Now, for an interesting quest, why don't you correlate the number of deaths and the populations of the states to see if a higher, or lower, percentage are in "Democrat Run" or in "Republican Run" states?
 
Just exactly what could Trump have done to prevent Covid from spreading in the US? It hit world wide, you really think we could stop it here, that Trump has magical powers that the rest of the world lacks? You have a problem with the death count blame China, the real culprit in this.

Well, considering that America leads the world in Covid-related deaths and infections, while the rest of the advanced nations of the world. especially in Europe, are seeing rapid declines in the aforementioned, what does that suggest to you? What did we do that you couldn't? I'll tell you; instead of political bickering and blame-shifting, whining about 'rights' being violated and your constitution being 'trampled', we worked together across party political lines, adhered to expert advice on keeping ourselves safe and here we are. Maybe Trump should have taken note and learned from the experience of others, instead of complaining that the virus made his numbers look bad for his election prospects.
 
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I don't have a "side" where US politics are concerned. I'm simply a bemused observer of the three-ring circus that passes for political discourse over there.

Then, obviously, you don't have a clear view of American politics.

American politics is NOT a "three ring circus" it is a one ring circus with several acts (all performed by the same people) all going on at the same time and pretending that there aren't any other acts going on in the same ring and/or being preformed by the same people.

Mind you, anyone who knows the actual origin of the term "three ring circus" might well get confused and think that American politics IS a deliberate attempt to keep the customers so distracted by a multiplicity of happenings that they don't notice the low quality of any of the individual happenings.
 
Well, considering that America leads the world in Covid-related deaths and infections, while the rest of the advanced nations of the world. especially in Europe, are seeing rapid declines in the aforementioned, what does that suggest to you?

It suggests two things, you have not been keeping up on the cases in the rest of the world that are on the rise again and you fail to take into account of the size of the US and its population density compared the the rest of the world.

And you failed to address the question.
 
The one thing we can say is that there are more people than cow pats in Democratic States. A single county in California has a higher population than 21 States. Think about that the next time you want to opine on this.

Running the calculations on

IF 5/9[sup]th[/sup]s of the deaths occur in states which have 80% of the population;

AND if 4/9[sup]th[/sup]s of the deaths occur in states which have 20% of the population;

THEN which group of states has the higher percentage of the deaths?

to be too esoteric for them to comprehend.

[NOTE:- I made the numbers up because I'm simply too lazy to spend an hour collecting the actual numbers and the important thing is the pattern.]
 
Ahhhhhhhhhh, so if Biden were president and issued a national mask mandate, you're saying that Trump's supporters would listen to president Biden? By the way, age statistics clearly show that the virus is actually being spread by the young who are not wearing masks and going to bars, beaches, parties, and protests. The majority of these people are not Trump supporters, they are young liberal progressives. Hell, even Nancy refuses to honor the California mask mandate.

Not in the least. If Mr. Biden were the President and he wanted to get the largest number of people wearing masks he would PROHIBIT any "Republican" (whatever that means) from wearing masks and ENCOURAGE "Democrats" (whatever that means) to wear masks.

That should get compliance up into the mid to high 90% range.
 
Does democrats feel save living in states run by democrats?

Or is it easier to blame 100 000 american deaths on Trump?

Trump owns the entire thing.
 
Ahhhhhhhhhh, so if Biden were president and issued a national mask mandate, you're saying that Trump's supporters would listen to president Biden?

If I was president, the penalty for a second offense for not wearing a mask would be to have one stapled to your face. As a friendly reminder.
 
It suggests two things, you have not been keeping up on the cases in the rest of the world that are on the rise again and you fail to take into account of the size of the US and its population density compared the the rest of the world.

You might not have notice a very strange fact and that is that the people in most of America's relatively similar countries have a lower chance of dying from COVID-19 than they do in the US. Yes, in some of them the mortality rate ONCE THE PERSON CATCHES COVID-19 is higher than it is in the US, but that is more than offset by the fact that those people have much lower chance of actually catching COVID-19.

20-09-02 A1 - G8 + CHINA COVID.jpg

20-09-02 A3 - Comparison of Ratios.jpg

20-09-02 A4 - G8+China NORMALIZED.jpg

20-09-02 B3 - Death by Ability to Pay.jpg

and doesn't negate the fact that COVID-19 is a serious problem in the United States of America

20-09-02 B1 - COVID vs Other Causes.jpg

And you failed to address the question.

How about

If the American national political leadership had actually paid attention to reality and actually provided concrete and productive national leadership rather than encouraging divisiveness and politically partisan rancour while pretending that there was nothing to be concerned about and seeking self-glorification, the results of America's efforts (especially considering its ability to fund those efforts and considering the extent of it already available medical/research facilities) would very likely have been far superior to the results it has actually achieved.

as "addressing the question"?
 
Bene, it's literally a matter of life and death at this point. After four years of incivility, you're not going to turn the boat around now. There is an ugly element that has emerged that needs to be stamped out, because it's killing you guys. There can be no ambiguity, and if that comes off as incivility, so be it. Healing begins after the cancer is removed. Maybe in 2019 you would have gotten a different response from me. 2020 is 2020, though. Every decent voice needs to be abruptly clear.

There is more than one ugly element. There is more than one cancer.
 
- snip-

How about

If the American national political leadership had actually paid attention to reality and actually provided concrete and productive national leadership rather than encouraging divisiveness and politically partisan rancour while pretending that there was nothing to be concerned about and seeking self-glorification, the results of America's efforts (especially considering its ability to fund those efforts and considering the extent of it already available medical/research facilities) would very likely have been far superior to the results it has actually achieved.

as "addressing the question"?

I even highlighted the word EXACTLY, this is just personal bias. You really think there is no attention being paid to this? that they say there is nothing to be concerned about. The whole world is working with medical research to solve the problem, even those countries the left often says have better medical than us, and none have a definite solve. You all seem to expect Trump himself to cure it, must be true that you do because you blame him for everything that does not work.

As to the US: President Trump announced emergency authorization to treat COVID-19 patients with convalescent plasma. - Nothing to see here, because the US is doing nothing but in June it was released that:

June 11, 2020 - A drug designed to treat COVID-19 could be authorized for use as soon as September if testing goes well, the chief scientist at Eli Lilly and Co. said Wednesday.

If approved, the treatment could be available in September, October or November, Daniel Skovronsky told Reuters.

“If in August or September we’re seeing the people who got treated are not progressing to hospitalization, that would be powerful data and could lead to emergency use authorization [from the FDA],”

We are still in the projected range but I am sure that will not be considered good enough. Besides, Dr. Faluci said a vaccine would not be ready for 12 to 18 months. Despite his pessimism the US started Operation Warp Speed, a partnership with the Department of Health and Human Services, the FDA and other federal agencies. Its goal is to deliver 300 million doses of a safe, effective vaccine by January 2021. These companies are included in the program: AstraZeneca, Janssen (Johnson & Johnson), Moderna, Novavax, Pfizer and Sanofi/GSK.

There are over 400 vaccines and treatments currently under study as researchers rush to produce effective medicines for the disease. But I am sure none of these will bear fruit because we are too busy dealing in "divisiveness and politically partisan rancour".
 
There is more than one ugly element. There is more than one cancer.

You're right. But as far as I can tell, Pareto's law would be a good guiding principle here. I've been following American politics for about 20 years now, current state is exponentially worse than any time I've observed during that time. Trump's entire bid for power rests on nurturing division and encouraging assholery. Until you remove him, his ugliness will justify the ugliness of others.

I don't say any of this smugly, you know how much I respect you. The world benefits from a saner America, I think most of us are rooting for that. Just remember that when you vote for Trump, you vote for all of Trump. Maybe four years of Biden will give the GOP a chance to make you proud again...no one with any integrity or intelligence of Christian decency could be proud of what Trump has turned America into.
 
Does democrats feel save living in states run by democrats?

Or is it easier to blame 100 000 american deaths on Trump?

0c63d0e58b4556bb09cb519672cfe245edc6c41e.gifv


:elephantf:usflag2:
 
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