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There have been 6 eye witnesses to the altercation that night who have testified so far, and one phone witness. Let take a look at the consistency of their statements, the credibility of their testimony, how it may have benefited or hurt one side or the other, and the strength of what they brought to the table.
The witnesses were:
How did you feel Selene's testimony changed? I seem to recall she was caught in a lie, I just can't recall exactly what it was at the moment.
You left out Jon (the other Jon) who saw Mr. Zimmerman on the phone immediately after the murder. He took pictures of the back of Zimmerman's head and the body (capturing the state it was in after the shooting)
Helps, if you consider a few questions:
1. If he was so beat up, then why was he able to immediately get on the phone with someone and have a conversation?
2. Why did he never mention this phone call in any of his interviews. He says he immediately saw flashlights and was arrested, and was handcuffed. Where does the phone call come it?
3. Who did he call? If, and this is just not clear that it's anything yet, he called one of his cop friends or someone who can give him "self-defense advice", he's in a world of hurt. If he just tried his wife and didn't get through, it's just evidence that he wasn't that shaken up and neglected to tell police the whole story and is therefore just another piece. TBD.
4. The position of the body. The state will attempt to show that the position and location of the body doesn't match the story, since it's face down and not close to the sidewalk.
She inserted that "left to right" thing on the stand, but never said any such thing in any of her depositions... It seems to me that there was something else too, but I can't remember it... Anyway, you'll notice that other than Rachel, I have her at the bottom.
Keep in mind, I did not take into consideration a whole host of factors when I ranked them, like consistency of their testimony, how much detail they offered, how unique or crucial their testimony was, and a host of other things... I was just ranking their credibility as unbiased observers... I figured I'd leave some stuff for everyone else to take a crack at.
5. Zimmerman gets back on top, and shot him while on the grass.
6. Witnesses saw Zimmerman stand up as if "the person on top is the one who stood up".
Forensics will prove #5 wrong. I do believe George shot him from the bottom, Trayvon made some noises - death was not instant, according to the medical experts I've heard talk about it - and got on top of Trayvon. Witnesses appeared and saw George get off of Trayvon.
I thought this was a good summary of Rachel and her believability. I actually come to much the same conclusion as the author does.
Expert: Witness inconsistencies don't kill credibility | HLNtv.com
I believe the only particularly meaningful lie she told was about the words spoken between Martin and Zimmerman.
I believe the most likely is:
Trayvon:"Why are you following me for?"
Zimerman: "What are you talking about?"
and the "get off, get off" was a complete fabrication.
We'll see, and if so, I'll rethink what my theory is. My guess is that forensics won't be able to say one way or the other, unless it's the by the location of the shell (which side does it eject to, etc).
I thought this was a good summary of Rachel and her believability. I actually come to much the same conclusion as the author does.
Expert: Witness inconsistencies don't kill credibility | HLNtv.com
I believe the only particularly meaningful lie she told was about the words spoken between Martin and Zimmerman.
I believe the most likely is:
Trayvon:"Why are you following me for?"
Zimerman: "What are you talking about?"
and the "get off, get off" was a complete fabrication.
That's the ONE thing I wish the cops had gotten to while it was pure.
If it was, z would have a problem of "amping up" the exchange to make it sound worse than it was (while still retaining deniability)
How did you feel Selene's testimony changed? I seem to recall she was caught in a lie, I just can't recall exactly what it was at the moment.
Ironically, the guy who said Trayvon was on top may have hurt Zimmerman more than he helped him by saying that Trayvon was punching him and not smashing his head on the concrete, as Zimmerman claimed ... if the jury thinks Zimmerman is lying, that could screw him ...
So anything not given in the first interview is therefore a lie?
Or like John Good, can details be added at trial. For instance, John Good testified that he never saw a single punch or heard any slamming, no dialog, and only saw 8 seconds of what happened. Since he never said that before trial, was he lying?
FWIW, I think based on witnesses so far, the whole thing happened like this (taking every witness as truthful and piecing together what they say)
1. They are first heard by the T. But they go scrambling down towards where the cell phone fell. I think it's possible Martin hit Zimmerman here and ran. Zimmerman chased him. Jenna hears them scuffling away. They make it down to the flashlight spot. That's when Selene heard them moving left to right. The most logical reason is that Zimmerman and Martin ran down that way and then doubled back. When they clashed down there, they dropped the flashlight and cellphone.
2. They grappled in a standing position.
3. They fell on the grass, Martin on top.
4. Martin pushed Zimmerman onto the pavement. John Good came outside at this point. Zimmerman hits his head. Punches or wrestling occurs.
5. Zimmerman gets back on top, and shot him while on the grass.
6. Witnesses saw Zimmerman stand up as if "the person on top is the one who stood up".
I do not believe that Zimmerman had time after he shot for Martin to sit up, say "you got me", then fall over. Then for Zimmerman to spring up and straddle the kid, who was still yapping away at him and struggling, hold his arms, yell "help me restrain this kid" without anyone seeing all of this. People immediately looked when the shot occurred and I believe the witnesses. The person on top got up.
I'll add one more thing here. For people who think that Zimmerman could have sprung up after having his head slammed so many times that his vision was blurry and his head felt like it would "explode", and who had been punched 30 times and who had just shot someone, don't you agree that this calls into question is level of injury? A person who was being hurt like that would not be able to immediately get up and straddle someone. Either he sprung up quickly and swapped positions before anyone rushing to their windows could see it or he wasn't hurt, because that requires a lot of strength and clarity to make that move so fast.
That's the ONE thing I wish the cops had gotten to while it was pure.
If it was, z would have a problem of "amping up" the exchange to make it sound worse than it was (while still retaining deniability)
I would think in a case that has potential for accusations of racism...and especially in a case revolving around the killing of an unarmed minor.....they would have been more careful about tracking down eyewitnesses and ear witnesses immediately.
One thing that's not explained here is how they got to the T when they did. Remember, Zimmerman hangs up at 7:13:41. The end of the call with Rachel wasn't until sometime between 7:16:00 and 7:16:59. The first 911 call occurs at 7:16:11 which means that either they stood there arguing for MUCH longer than a few minutes, or else they both weren't at the T when Zimmerman says "he's running".
Either way, during this time, there's no way that Zimmerman was on RVC walking back to his truck.
I would think in a case that has potential for accusations of racism...and especially in a case revolving around the killing of an unarmed minor.....they would have been more careful about tracking down eyewitnesses and ear witnesses immediately.
We'll see, and if so, I'll rethink what my theory is. My guess is that forensics won't be able to say one way or the other, unless it's the by the location of the shell (which side does it eject to, etc). One thing that's not explained here is how they got to the T when they did. Remember, Zimmerman hangs up at 7:13:41. The end of the call with Rachel wasn't until sometime between 7:16:00 and 7:16:59. The first 911 call occurs at 7:16:11 which means that either they stood there arguing for MUCH longer than a few minutes, or else they both weren't at the T when Zimmerman says "he's running".
Either way, during this time, there's no way that Zimmerman was on RVC walking back to his truck.
Possible explanation? If you watch a video of someone walking the Trayvon route, it shows that when he says "****, he's running" Martin could have only made it to the clubhouse. It's possible then Zimmerman exits his vehicle by the clubhouse and the foot chase goes on for much longer than he said.
Otherwise, how does the testimony explain this two minute gap?
They tried. The family and Crump refused to hand over information to allow them access to the phone and find out about recent phone activity. The cops can only do so much. Without assistance from the family their job becomes that much more difficult and time consuming.
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