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1 week... 7 witnesses... Let's review...

Tracey Martin didn't have TM's pin number on the phone... and by the time the phone was returned to him from SPD.. I believe that was March 2 ... he no longer trusted the SPD investigators.

As I have previously stated, I have T-Mobile. I know what information Tracy would have had access to on their webpage, and it includes time of calls and the number that call was placed too. Do you know Tracy didn't have TM's PIN number, or are you making things up?

His no longer having trust of the SPD and instead allowing Crump to do the interview will probably hurt the chances of a conviction of George. The circumstances were suspicious and Rachelle change the story from what she told Crump and what she told the prosecutor. It makes her story more circumspect.
 
As I have previously stated, I have T-Mobile. I know what information Tracy would have had access to on their webpage, and it includes time of calls and the number that call was placed too. Do you know Tracy didn't have TM's PIN number, or are you making things up?

His no longer having trust of the SPD and instead allowing Crump to do the interview will probably hurt the chances of a conviction of George. The circumstances were suspicious and Rachelle change the story from what she told Crump and what she told the prosecutor. It makes her story more circumspect.

Do you remember the testimony of the T Mobile Exec?

Yes.. because Tracey didn't know about Rachel until he got the phone bill.
 
Do you remember the testimony of the T Mobile Exec?

Yes.. because Tracey didn't know about Rachel until he got the phone bill.

I actually missed it as I was in a meeting. Did the Tmobile exec say, incorrectly, that they do not have access to call information on their website? Did the Tmobile exec say that Tracy did not have access to Trayvon's Pin number? If not, then you are obfuscating.
 
I actually missed it as I was in a meeting. Did the Tmobile exec say, incorrectly, that they do not have access to call information on their website? Did the Tmobile exec say that Tracy did not have access to Trayvon's Pin number? If not, then you are obfuscating.

No.. he confirmed George's other phone calls that evening.. which screws George's timeline.
 
They tried. The family and Crump refused to hand over information to allow them access to the phone and find out about recent phone activity. The cops can only do so much. Without assistance from the family their job becomes that much more difficult and time consuming.

How soon did the family have a lawyer? I thought this would have been day 1 oe 2 of the investigation,
 
How soon did the family have a lawyer? I thought this would have been day 1 oe 2 of the investigation,

Not certain. Tracy indicated that they didn't want to turn the info over to SPD, as they no longer trusted them. That decision hurt their case and made Rachel's testimony less truthful.
 
No.. he confirmed George's other phone calls that evening.. which screws George's timeline.

Your assumptions are not yet established. There was apparently a call prior to the encounter. There was then a call after the encounter that did not connect.
 
Not certain. Tracy indicated that they didn't want to turn the info over to SPD, as they no longer trusted them. That decision hurt their case and made Rachel's testimony less truthful.

I think that is the point.

If they came to him right off the bat, looking for answers in their son's death do you think they would have stalled?
 
Your assumptions are not yet established. There was apparently a call prior to the encounter. There was then a call after the encounter that did not connect.

Wait till Shelie testifies.

George may walk.. but he is caught up in a miasma of lies.
 
I think that is the point.

If they came to him right off the bat, looking for answers in their son's death do you think they would have stalled?

As they no longer trusted the SPD and the SPD was asking for details on the phone, Tracy went to an attorney (Crump). Rather then turning the information over to the police, which would have been the smarter way to handle it, they had Crump set up an interview with Rachel. Then, compounding the issue, Bernie had an interview with Rachel in front of Trayvon's mother.
 
There is a time gap, but let me first correct something. The call with Rachel wasn't formally ended. Your time frame is when the call was disconnected, which could have been at any time because Martin never hit the "end" button.

Even with that in mind, when Z ended his call he was at RVC as he stated during the walk through. He was probably 10 or 20 feet shy of RVC during the walk through, but from there it took him 30 seconds to reach where he said the confrontation happened near the "T". It seemed he was walking at a brisk pace in order to reach the spot where he said Martin came out of the darkness. So let's give him an extra 10 seconds for a slower pace, which brings us to 7:14:21. Then take into account he may have hesitated for a moment or 2 to think about where he wanted to be for police, or maybe just to contemplate the situation in general, or maybe he was fumbling with his phone. He also said he was still looking to see if he could spot him while he was walking. I'd say that might account for maybe an extra 15 seconds, bringing it to 7:14:36.

Now let's back track... The first 911 call at 7:16:11 was placed by Jenna. She testified that she decided to call when the 2 of them came scuffling by her patio and ended up on the ground between her house and John Good's. She also testified that from the time she made the decision to call 911, and the time the operator actually picked up, was around 30 seconds. That would place the 2 of them around 30-35 feet from the "T" at 7:15:41 She testified that she has no idea how much time elapsed between the time things started at the "T" and the time she decided to call 911. So roughly, that leaves a little over a minute from the time Zimmerman says the confrontation started, and when the 2 of them were about 10 -15 feet from the place where Martin would eventually be shot.

Now the day before Jenna testified, Jane (who lives north of her on the other side of the "T") took the witness stand and testified that from the time she heard the 2 voices that were in disagreement outside her window (when they first confronted each other at the "T") until she had turned her night light out and could see them on the ground in front of John's door, she estimates that a "couple of minutes" had passed. Now we know for a fact that it couldn't have been more than 2 minutes because according to Z's time line the confrontation started give or take, at around 7:14:21 and when the 911 operator picked up Jenna's call at 7:16:11, they were already on the ground, Zimmerman screaming for help, and John Good talking to them out his door. The reason I bring Jane's testimony up, is because she estimated "minutes", not "seconds" had elapsed from confrontation until Ground and pound.

Then there's Jeannee, in the corner house across from Jenna. She heard the first sounds coming from the area of the "T", looked but saw nothing, returned to her living room to watch TV, heard more sounds getting closer and went back to her patio door, saw nothing again, went back to watch TV, heard the yelling for help, them went back to her patio door and saw both them and John Good. Although she also could not estimate the time that had elapsed between the first noises toward the "T" and seeing them on the ground, I don't think a minute or 2 is unresonable...

Based on the time line and the witness testimony, I don't think your "run past Selene's house and then run back" theory is very plausible. If I had to take a guess of where that minute or so went, I would say most likely that once Martin punched him in the nose, he lost all concept of time and instead of him immediately stumbling 40 or 50 feet and being pinned on the ground in just a matter of seconds, he actually stumbled around for quite a bit longer than he remembers with Martin beating on him... He also may have taken a bit longer to start moving back toward his truck then he remembers after hanging up with police... Or it could be a combination of the 2... Either way, I don't see the unexplained loss of a minute or so as that big a deal here... After the experience Zimmerman went through that night, I can't see how anyone would expect a person to have total recall right down to the smallest most minute detail.

Now if there was say a 5 minute gap, then I would have been all over that right from the get-go.. But a minute, minute and a half... Just doesn't seem too significant, especially when you look at the timeline, George's story, and how they both fit with the witness testimony.


Now can you get back to the topic of analyzing the witnesses?

This analysis is hilarious. You know, I heard Z was hungry, maybe he stopped to get a burger on the way between RVC and the T?
 
Not to sidetrack you all, but I was hoping to see more people evaluating the 7 eye witnesses this past week... Things like how their testimony either fit various theories floating around, or maybe shot them down... How credible you thought their testimony was, or how you think they looked to the jury... You know, things like that...

I mean God knows there are enough threads for people to peddle their theories and argue their beliefs around here.
 
BTW - I noticed in your photo above that you moved TM's body closer to the T...heheh.
 
Not to sidetrack you all, but I was hoping to see more people evaluating the 7 eye witnesses this past week... Things like how their testimony either fit various theories floating around, or maybe shot them down... How credible you thought their testimony was, or how you think they looked to the jury... You know, things like that...

I mean God knows there are enough threads for people to peddle their theories and argue their beliefs around here.

That explains your wall of text in #22...
 
BTW - I noticed in your photo above that you moved TM's body closer to the T...heheh.

If I did, I promise you that was not intentional... I was trying to put it just a little north of Good's back door, and to be honest, I wasn't sure if I got the location of his door exact or not.
 
That explains your wall of text in #22...

Did you notice that my reply involved the testimony or involvement of 4 of the eye witnesses?

Did you also take note of how I ended the post?
 
As they no longer trusted the SPD and the SPD was asking for details on the phone, Tracy went to an attorney (Crump). Rather then turning the information over to the police, which would have been the smarter way to handle it, they had Crump set up an interview with Rachel. Then, compounding the issue, Bernie had an interview with Rachel in front of Trayvon's mother.

Which is exactly to the point.

Rachel should have been interviewed fro the git go. I can get the idea that they did not trust the police and investigation in general. From the outside looking in, important things left out in the initial investigation. Their unarmed child was killed. The cell phone was at the scene. It should have been early in investigation. They should have not needed crump to put any fire under anyones butt, let alone place spin on the story.
 
If I did, I promise you that was not intentional... I was trying to put it just a little north of Good's back door, and to be honest, I wasn't sure if I got the location of his door exact or not.

Funny, it seems to be in back of Jenna's house, not anywhere near John's screen door.

Actually I don't think it was intentional either, but I do think it is indicative or your subliminal impulse to fudge everything into Z's favor.
 
This analysis is hilarious. You know, I heard Z was hungry, maybe he stopped to get a burger on the way between RVC and the T?

Look, based on the witness testimony thus far it appears that the confrontation took place exactly where Zimmerman said it did. There isn't enough spare time in that for any kind of mysterious, untold activity to have taken place that would turn this case on it's head. So I'm guessing that Georges perception of time and everything else was altered after he got his clock cleaned with the broken nose punch, and it was a much slower progression from the "T" to the location of the shot... Worse case scenario that I can see here, is that Z was taking his time getting back to his truck after he hung up with police, hoping to catch a glimpse of where Martin ran off too so he could inform the cops when they arrived, and he didn't tell them about it because he felt stupid about it.

The point is, the witnesses have pretty much nailed down where the thing started, so at this point, that possible 1 to 2 minutes that isn't accounted for doesn't really mean a whole lot without any evidence of testimony that would indicate the confrontation was any different that Zimmerman said it was.
 
Forensics will say. They'll be able to determine how much the can will weigh down the top hoodie and cause the holes to be out of alignment when someone is on top and leaning pretty easily, I should think.

Nearly all guns eject to the right. From what I can tell the bullet casing was to the right, which would support Zimm being on the bottom.

The bullet is south of the body, or to the right of someone facing down, and to the left of someone facing up.

Evidence Field | DiwataMan
 
Look, based on the witness testimony thus far it appears that the confrontation took place exactly where Zimmerman said it did. There isn't enough spare time in that for any kind of mysterious, untold activity to have taken place that would turn this case on it's head. So I'm guessing that Georges perception of time and everything else was altered after he got his clock cleaned with the broken nose punch, and it was a much slower progression from the "T" to the location of the shot... Worse case scenario that I can see here, is that Z was taking his time getting back to his truck after he hung up with police, hoping to catch a glimpse of where Martin ran off too so he could inform the cops when they arrived, and he didn't tell them about it because he felt stupid about it.

The point is, the witnesses have pretty much nailed down where the thing started, so at this point, that possible 1 to 2 minutes that isn't accounted for doesn't really mean a whole lot without any evidence of testimony that would indicate the confrontation was any different that Zimmerman said it was.

Zimmerman said in both his oral and written statements to police the altercation began and ended at the T. "I turned around, he was right there (10 feet or so) he said "You got a problem", I said "No" and reached for my phone when he hit me, I fell backwards onto my back where he got on top of me and started hitting me."

Hard to miss a 2-3 minute argument and struggle down a sidewalk for 40-50 feet, wouldn't you say?
 
Zimmerman said in both his oral and written statements to police the altercation began and ended at the T.
Stop being dishonest.
Not once did he say that is where it ended.
 
Funny, it seems to be in back of Jenna's house, not anywhere near John's screen door.

Actually I don't think it was intentional either, but I do think it is indicative or your subliminal impulse to fudge everything into Z's favor.

Here... Is this better?

witnessmap.jpg
 
Which is exactly to the point.

Rachel should have been interviewed fro the git go.

Yes, Rachel should have been interviewed form the "git go". The cops were unable to interview her or even know she existed due to non-cooperation of the Martin family.

The SPD didn't have access to the phone. How could they when Tracy was not be cooperative with providing them the PIN or, if they did not know the PIN, the information that was readily available on the T-Mobile website so they could see who they were talking to or, failing that, the information contained on the T-Mobile bill once they received it.

Instead of Crump "lighting a fire", Crump/Martin's should have provided the SPD with Rachel's information rather then conducting the stupid interview themselves.
 
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