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1 week... 7 witnesses... Let's review...

Are you actually claiming that those things are scientifically proven to be physical impossibilities?

The way I see it, you have no idea what in the hell you are talking about.

The way I see it is that if I try and recreate something and it makes no sense, then I consider it incredible until I'm shown differently. I was open-minded enough to try it for myself. I'm still open-minded. And if the state fails to prove their case, I can still support a non-guilty verdict even if I personally remain convinced of his guilt. I'm not the one hand-waving away conflicting evidence in this thread.
 
The way I see it is that if I try and recreate something and it makes no sense, then I consider it incredible until I'm shown differently.

Recreate this:

A 6 foot male is walking roadside in a townhouse complex at 7 pm. He becomes convinced that he is being followed. His girlfriend, on the phone, suggests that the follower is a rapist. He decides that he cannot go home, because the roadside, early evening, townhouse complex, large male targeting mugger (or possibly rapist) will not stop if he gets home. No, the follower knowing where he lives is certain doom. What can he do? Well, he doesn't call the cops. He doesn't go to a well light place. He doesn't knock on a neighbor's door. He goes to a dark place and attacks the person.

Why? How does he get so crazy? Why the irrational behavior? Why not call the cops?

My wild speculation: Because he was paranoid that someone, from his home neighborhood probably, had sent someone to 'get him'. After all, that jewelry was worth 10,000 dollars (let's presume he thought it was real) and to a kid that sounds like hitman money. He couldn't call the cops, because he'd need to explain why the person is after him. He couldn't show them where he lives, because they'd break in for the jewelry (or whatever, perhaps he kicked someone's ass and they promised to kill him, the point is someone was 'after him'). All he could do was go 'special ops' and deal with this problem old skool, like back on the block. His girlfriend encouraged it, as evidenced by her "I didn't know it was deadly serious".
 
Recreate this:

A 6 foot male is walking roadside in a townhouse complex at 7 pm. He becomes convinced that he is being followed. His girlfriend, on the phone, suggests that the follower is a rapist. He decides that he cannot go home, because the roadside, early evening, townhouse complex, large male targeting mugger (or possibly rapist) will not stop if he gets home. No, the follower knowing where he lives is certain doom. What can he do? Well, he doesn't call the cops. He doesn't go to a well light place. He doesn't knock on a neighbor's door. He goes to a dark place and attacks the person.

Why? How does he get so crazy? Why the irrational behavior? Why not call the cops?

My wild speculation: Because he was paranoid that someone, from his home neighborhood probably, had sent someone to 'get him'. After all, that jewelry was worth 10,000 dollars (let's presume he thought it was real) and to a kid that sounds like hitman money. He couldn't call the cops, because he'd need to explain why the person is after him. He couldn't show them where he lives, because they'd break in for the jewelry (or whatever, perhaps he kicked someone's ass and they promised to kill him, the point is someone was 'after him'). All he could do was go 'special ops' and deal with this problem old skool, like back on the block. His girlfriend encouraged it, as evidenced by her "I didn't know it was deadly serious".

This is called a red herring. Your fantasies are based on silly prejudices and have no relation to the reality here, which is the witness testimony.

Zimmerman claimed that he pinned Martin's left hand with his elbow. With this same hand, while Martin was straddling him (which means sitting on his hips) he claimed he could reach down, still pinning Martin's hand, and reach past Martin's leg, reach the gun, unholster it from near his right buttocks, and pull it up to shoot. I tried this, and I couldn't even come close. To me this is incredible.
 
This is called a red herring. Your fantasies are based on silly prejudices and have no relation to the reality here, which is the witness testimony.

My wild speculation (not the same as fantasy) is based on 4 things (not prejudice, I've lived and plan to settle in Africa):

1. 6 foot male is sure he will be attacked roadside at 7 pm in a townhouse complex.
2. His girlfriend suggests it is a rapist.
3. He becomes convinced that he cannot go home, or the follower will become a home invader/something.
4. He does not call the cops.
5. He goes to a dark place.
6. He attacks the follower.

One thing explains all 6 of those irrational things (each of which is otherwise unexplained/able):

He thought someone was trying to 'get him' for something. He thought his homies hired a prison MS13 to rape his ass for what, in reality, was probably a minor thing or even a joke ("not deadly serious"). He figured he could kill the hired thug and get away with it due to the presumed rap-sheet.

That explains it all.
 
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My fantasy is based on 4 things (not prejudice, I've lived and plan to settle in Africa):

1. 6 foot male is sure he will be attacked roadise at 7 pm in a townhouse complex.
2. His girlfriend suggests it is a rapist.
3. He becomes convinced that he cannot go home, or the follower will become a home invader/something.
4. He does not call the cops.
5. He goes to a dark place.
6. He attacks the follower.


1 thing explains all 6 of those irrational things (each of which is otherwise unexplained/able):

He thought someone was trying to 'get him' for something. He thought his homies hired a prison MS13 to rape his ass for what, in reality, was probably a minor thing or even a joke ("not deadly serious"). He figured he could kill the hitman and get away with it due to the presumed rap-sheet.

That explains it all.

This is awesome. You should write screenplays.

"He figured he could kill the hitman".

:rofl
 
This is awesome. You should write screenplays.

"He figured he could kill the hitman".

:rofl

Maybe not hitman. The rapist/hired thug that his girlfriend was warning him about (as she testified). She gassed him up, freaked him out. He went 'special ops', because he couldn't call the cops.


That's much more likely (and evidence congruent) than your speculation: that Z is a racist psycho killer.
 
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No.. he confirmed George's other phone calls that evening.. which screws George's timeline.

Now that I've seen the phone records, you are wrong.

He called NEN at 7:08. He then called them again (possibly just redial) 7:18 - which would be when Manalo saw him on the phone. It appears this call did not connect page 8.

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/June_27_Exhibits_and_Identification_List.pdf

And as we were talking of subpoenas and how long they take.. The subpoena was apparently sent to T-Mobile on 03/13/12 and not responded to until 04/04/12 - 3 weeks later. Please note.. This was before the special prosecutor was even assigned - so the SPD was still investigating.
 
Maybe not hitman. The rapist/hired thug that his girlfriend was warning him about (as she testified).

She gassed him up, freaked him out. He went 'special ops', because he couldn't call the cops.

So what, M wasn't rapeable?

Did dahmer or those other guys only prey on short men?

Do you have some stats on this?

You left out gangs in general and thrill killers and hell, murderous racists in you list of possible dangers. As if NONE of those COULD have been following M around in the dark.
 
So what, M wasn't rapeable?

Did dahmer or those other guys only prey on short men?

Do you have some stats on this?

You left out gangs in general and thrill killers and hell, murderous racists in you list of possible dangers. As if NONE of those COULD have been following M around in the dark.


1. Kid freaks out, at the provocation of his girlfriend, that someone is out to get him for something he was involved in. Remember, he just skipped town.
2. Z is a racist psycho killer.

Which is more likely and backed by evidence?
 
Maybe not hitman. The rapist/hired thug that his girlfriend was warning him about (as she testified). She gassed him up, freaked him out. He went 'special ops', because he couldn't call the cops.


That's much more likely (and evidence congruent) than your speculation: that Z is a racist psycho killer.

His response indicated he knew she was teasing.
 
Now that I've seen the phone records, you are wrong.

He called NEN at 7:08. He then called them again (possibly just redial) 7:18 - which would be when Manalo saw him on the phone. It appears this call did not connect page 8.

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/June_27_Exhibits_and_Identification_List.pdf

And as we were talking of subpoenas and how long they take.. The subpoena was apparently sent to T-Mobile on 03/13/12 and not responded to until 04/04/12 - 3 weeks later. Please note.. This was before the special prosecutor was even assigned - so the SPD was still investigating.

Buck, did you note the testimony of the TMobile exec about George's 6:54 PM call.
 
His response indicated he knew she was teasing.

Well, she didn't think it was "deadly serious", whatever she was doing. His 'lifeline' was a fail, no million.
 
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So what, M wasn't rapeable?

Did dahmer or those other guys only prey on short men?

Do you have some stats on this?

You left out gangs in general and thrill killers and hell, murderous racists in you list of possible dangers. As if NONE of those COULD have been following M around in the dark.

Do child rapists normally work in teams? Trayvon knew George was on the phone.
 
Buck, did you note the testimony of the TMobile exec about George's 6:54 PM call.

And how does a 6:54 phone call screw up his timeline, pray tell.
 
Alex, I'd like to use my LifeLine.
Sure, Trayvon, who'd you like to call.
Rachel.

Thanks for playing.
 
Well, she didn't think it was "deadly serious", whatever she was doing. His 'lifeline' was a fail, no million.

There is a photo taken of TM after they rolled him over.. His earbuds with their wire and his phone were found within inches of TM's head.

How did TM manage to assault George over an area of 40 feet and hang on to his phone ?
 
There is a photo taken of TM after they rolled him over.. His earbuds with their wire and his phone were found within inches of TM's head.

How did TM manage to assault George over an area of 40 feet and hang on to his phone ?

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of everyone confirming Z's story except Rachel the Hut.
 
And how does a 6:54 phone call screw up his timeline, pray tell.

By 6: 54 PM it was raining heavily and TM was under the lighted mail kiosk... George claims he parked in front of the clubhouse around the corner. He couldn't see the mail kiosk from that vantage point.

George is lying about when he began following Trayvon and how long he watched him. It began much earlier. It takes less than a minute to drive from George's house to pass by Taffe's house and on to the clubhouse.
 
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of everyone confirming Z's story except Rachel the Hut.

Then you should be listening more carefully.. They only got bits and pieces... impressions in the dark.
 
By 6: 54 PM it was raining heavily and TM was under the lighted mail kiosk... George claims he parked in front of the clubhouse around the corner. He couldn't see the mail kiosk from that vantage point.

George is lying about when he began following Trayvon and how long he watched him. It began much earlier. It takes less than a minute to drive from George's house to pass by Taffe's house and on to the clubhouse.

You have no idea if trayvon was at the mail station or not. But, don't let that stop you. are you still ni your little fantasyland of believing that George followed trayvon from George's sisters community? Or did you finally let that one die?
 
Then you should be listening more carefully.. They only got bits and pieces... impressions in the dark.

And what do you have? Painting George as Satan in an effort to explain what is very simple: the kid thought someone was after him and the Hut made it worse.





 
We only know what we can glean from the limited evidence. We have the phone records. We have Rachel's testimony. We know she tried to call back at 7:17:30 or thereabouts. We know the first 9:11 call happened very soon afterwards. We have witnesses who put the times close to there.

Look, I'm not saying that it makes a hell of a lot of difference either way, but you simply can not use Martin's cell phone records to determine the moment of the confrontation, because we have no idea how it was ended on Martin's end... All we know is, Martin himself didn't do it. The call could have been cut off when she heard the "wet grass" sound, or it could have lost it's audio capability or malfunctioned in the scuffle, and remained active for who knows how long after the confrontation, depending on the exact time the confrontation took place... Which unfortunately, we can't nail down precisely...

The closest we can get with any certainty, is Jenna's 911 call and her estimation on the time that elapsed from deciding to call 911, to when she connected with them. She says that she heard the verbal confrontation at the "T" and almost immediately after, she heard their feet scuffling toward her patio. That's when she decided to call 911, so I'm thinking no more than maybe 5 seconds after the verbal confrontation, she decided to call 911... Evidently there was so issues with her phones or something, I never heard what it was, but at any rate, she estimates that from the time she decided to call 911, until the operator answered her call, was 30 seconds.

Her call was answered at 7:16:11 and if you subtract the 35 seconds, the confrontation has an approximate start time of 7:15:36.

I realize your case takes at least a half minute time hit this way, but at least we know it's reasonably accurate and still leaves Zimmerman with plenty of time he still has to account for . Besides, even if you assume Martin's call got cut off at exactly 7:16 pm on the nose, according to Jenna's testimony, there's no way she could have connected with the 911 operator that fast.


We're trying to figure out what happened, right? And part of that is figuring out where people were at given times. Zimmerman has no account of this missing time and in fact lied about it several times. It's logical to assume that he continued his search and covered it up. It doesn't go to self-defense per se, but it goes to his character and credibility. We're testing his story, and even you agree that this part of it doesn't add up. Let's see what we get this coming week.


Believe me, personally there's nothing I want more than to know the truth of exactly what happened that night second by second, and detail for detail... With all the time I've spent pouring over the evidence and debating this thing, I think I deserve to know the truth... Even so, there is something I deem more important than knowing everything that took place that night, and that is that justice gets served in this case... I don't care if Zimmerman lied, Rachel lied and every single eye witness fabricated their testimony, as long as in the end the jury doesn't allow a murderer to go free, or rob an innocent man of his freedom.

As for the missing time, I'd like to know one way or the other where it went. If he did spend that time looking around and hoping he might see Martin, it wouldn't surprise me at all. He could have just hung out on RVC for a few minutes hoping he might spot Martin going out the back gate. I will say this though... Unless there is some simple, perfectly logical explanation that we've all overlooked or were unaware of that resolves the missing time, Zimmerman will take a credibility hit with the jury whether he testifies or not. But like I said before, as long as that missing time can't be directly tied to activity that would take away his ability to legally claim he acted in self defense, it just doesn't hold a lot of meaning to me one way or the other.
 
The cell phone that probably belonged to the victim of a homicide should be enough.
I asked for the law.
Can you provided such law or not?
Secondly. It was supposedly his fathers account. His father was not a victim of a homicide.





You're very boring.

I understand that you do not like the facts and the truth and find them boring instead of the complete fabrications that you come up with.
You have been shown to be wrong, you are wrong and you obviously will continue to be wrong.
So get used to the refutation of your absurdities being boring.
 
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