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‘I literally lost organs:’ Why detransitioned teens regret changing genders

The only lesson here is like lot of things, you shouldn't rush in. Especially life changing decisions. No harm in waiting. From what I read, Chloe in the OP story was in too much of a hurry.

This is not vindication of every right-wing trans scare we've had foisted upon us lately.
So it seems the idea is to threaten people that their kids will die if they don't rush in this strikes me more as a multi-level marketing ploy than an actual addressing of medical and psychological issues.

I've heard interviews and listen to transgender people actually speak about this. They seem to be a lot more understanding of the youth that identify as transgender which is to be expected. But many of them a little older seem to be very glad for the fact that they had therapy and that their therapists challenged them and made them confront things and deal with various things and I think because some people go through this whether they're trans are not they tend to be better adjusted.

If the idea is mental health the endeavor should be to determine primarily if people need this I don't buy the idea that a 15 year old knows what they need.
 
This is a video I just stumbled upon on YouTube by Jordan Peterson particularly on this issue and I would like to know from a transgender perspective, what do you think about this?


Emotional nonsense. He is little different than Ben Shapiro.
 
So it seems the idea is to threaten people that their kids will die if they don't rush in this strikes me more as a multi-level marketing ploy than an actual addressing of medical and psychological issues.

I've heard interviews and listen to transgender people actually speak about this. They seem to be a lot more understanding of the youth that identify as transgender which is to be expected. But many of them a little older seem to be very glad for the fact that they had therapy and that their therapists challenged them and made them confront things and deal with various things and I think because some people go through this whether they're trans are not they tend to be better adjusted.

If the idea is mental health the endeavor should be to determine primarily if people need this I don't buy the idea that a 15 year old knows what they need.
Having an expeneiced therapist is strongly recommended in addition to the in-depth psychological disgnposis and parallel with the medical transition of hormones. What do you think is part of a transgender diagnosis?

 
Having an expeneiced therapist is strongly recommended in addition to the in-depth psychological disgnposis and parallel with the medical transition of hormones. What do you think is part of a transgender diagnosis?
Any therapist that recommends this for a 15 year old should be investigated and the doctors that they recommend.
 
Not really a rebuttal more of a denial. But that is exactly what I expect from woke
There was nothing to rebut because he presented no facts.

Any therapist that recommends this for a 15 year old should be investigated and the doctors that they recommend.


Do you come with coherent English subtitles? Do you have a relevant medical or psychology degree or do you expect us to just trust your moral outrage and well-known ignorance of the subject?
 
There was nothing to rebut because he presented no facts.
More denial of reality. Woke is a religion.



Do you come with coherent English subtitles? Do you have a relevant medical or psychology degree or do you expect us to just trust your moral outrage and well-known ignorance of the subject?
Don't need one. Pretending there is some sacred unquestionable doctrine is another component of religion.

This post seems to show the Dunning Kruger effect.
 
Emotional nonsense. He is little different than Ben Shapiro.
Shaprio is great, you should watch him for a week, might open your eyes. And no I don't agree with his stance on Transgender issues in most cases.
 
It is very rare. Transgendered care has been happening for more than 60 years with only minor updates changes for new technology and experience. This is not a radical idea or an untested treatment protocol.




If you actually had a medical license, or even a reasonable knowledge of the subject of gender identity and gender dysphoria you could make a intelligent and informed reply on the various points instead of just calling a Dr who performs a treatment that you dont understand a quack.

What is the other equally effective treatment for gender dysphoria that has a success rate of more than 90%? No patient is required to do anything, ever. They can stop and walk away at any time for any reason. After the proper diagnosis the Drs and therapists explain the situation to a patient and give them their options, the risks of those treatments as well as what they can expect, and the adult patient or the patient and their guardian are free to make their decisions, one of which is to leave.
Puberty blocking drugs for gender reassignment is pure insanity, as is removing a teenage girl's breasts for the same purpose. Any healthcare professional that supports such measures is an insane quack..
 
It seems like you're always going to err on the side of your virtue signal so there's no point in continuing this discussion.
You're the one virtue signaling here. I'm simply saying I'd like to see more evidence before taking a stance against someone controlling his or her own body in such a fundamental and intimate way.
 
The nice thing is that if a 14-year-old wants to be a prostitute or to get a swastika tattoo, nothing is lost making her wait a few years to decide when she reaches adulthood. She can do it then, having lost nothing but time.... and I'm unaware of any evidence that not being a prostitute or not getting a tattoo causes people severe emotional trauma in a way that forcing them to live for years in a body that conflicts with their internal sense of gender is said to do.

What makes medical transition of minors a thornier issue is puberty. The longer you wait for such treatment, the less effective the treatment will be, in the sense that the body will have undergone massive and irreversible physical changes by the time the person is an adult. Plus, as I mentioned, the claim is that merely being forced to live in that conflicting body for years can cause such emotional trauma that suicide or other self harm is greatly increased.

So, it isn't a question with a simple solution, the way those other two examples are. Merely postponing the decision doesn't leave the person in more or less the same place a few years later, when she can decide as an adult. A decision to postpone transforming the body in one direction medically is a decision to transform the body in another direction by way of normal hormonal processes, with potentially permanent psychological harm resulting.

Perhaps that's better. Perhaps not. That's the evidence I'm hoping to see to take a position.

Anyway, a better analogy would be whether a 14-year-old should be allowed to get an abortion. That has that same "ticking bomb" set-up for a transgender person dealing with the changes that will come with puberty, along with the same extremely high psychological stakes. You can't really just postpone the abortion decision until the person is an adult, because postponement is effectively a choice to force huge long-term physical and psychological consequences on the person.

You have described the reason why chemical castration drugs (such as lupron) are so loved by transgender advocates, and so feared by many others. Without the drugs, children will start looking like the sex they do not want to be. A girlish boy starts looking (and talking) like a man, and a boyish girl starts looking like a woman. A child might genuinely and deeply want to become the opposite sex. Or maybe the child just doesn't want to become an adult. Or maybe the child is going through a phase. Or maybe the child is just extremely confused.

What does it really mean to be a man or a woman? No one can actually say what it means. Most women have no interest in big military machines, but lots of men do. Most men don't care as much as women about interior decorating or growing pretty flowers. But our society no longer forbids or strongly discourages people from behaving like the opposite gender.

For example, homosexual men often fall into either a masculine or feminine type of personality. Male homosexuals can become hair stylists, fashion designers, etc., and hardly anyone really minds. Or they can live like regular men, and you can hardly tell they are homosexuals.

How much of gender personality is learned and cultural, and how much is influenced by sex hormones and DNA? Well no one knows. I think our medical industry has taken a very wrong turn in deciding that drugs and surgery are the answer. Not really surprising, since our medical industry thinks drugs or surgery are the answer to all kinds of problems.

I think we need to question our medical industry, on this and many other topics. I have distrusted the overuse of certain medical interventions for a very long time. And THAT IS WHY I disagree with transgender "affirming care." It is not "affirming care." It is applying harmful substances and surgical procedures where they should not be applied.

I don't care if men wear dresses and makeup, or if women join the military. I DO NOT CARE. I have always felt kind of gender ambivalent myself, and rejected a couple of my early career attempts because they were 90% female. I never wore makeup or high heels. I do wear dresses when going out, and I have long hair, just because that's what I like. The women I know are all over the place when it comes to this -- some always wear pants and never wear makeup, some wear pants but do wear makeup, some wear jewelry but no makeup, etc.

I really hope our society will take a step back and get perspective, and reevaluate what the transgender activists have been claiming. Puberty blocking (chemical castration) drugs are controversial and we have to question the wisdom of letting young children take them.
 
That might be your problem if you are not CIS and trying to force yourself to be CIS. Go talk to a psychologist and be very frank about your feelings. That is why that career exists. Height is not easy to change but weight is with proper methods, exercise and diet. Ive lost weight (5 lbs recently) just treating my anxiety because I was stress eating.

Wonderful idea, I can go talk to a psychologist about wanting to look like when I was 30. Maybe they will suggest extensive cosmetic surgery.

I have always taken care of my health and have always been athletic, so I don't need advice about diet and exercise. I just want my hair to be blonde without using toxic chemicals. Help me medical industry!
 
You have described the reason why chemical castration drugs (such as lupron) are so loved by transgender advocates, and so feared by many others. Without the drugs, children will start looking like the sex they do not want to be. A girlish boy starts looking (and talking) like a man, and a boyish girl starts looking like a woman. A child might genuinely and deeply want to become the opposite sex. Or maybe the child just doesn't want to become an adult. Or maybe the child is going through a phase. Or maybe the child is just extremely confused.

What does it really mean to be a man or a woman? No one can actually say what it means. Most women have no interest in big military machines, but lots of men do. Most men don't care as much as women about interior decorating or growing pretty flowers. But our society no longer forbids or strongly discourages people from behaving like the opposite gender.

For example, homosexual men often fall into either a masculine or feminine type of personality. Male homosexuals can become hair stylists, fashion designers, etc., and hardly anyone really minds. Or they can live like regular men, and you can hardly tell they are homosexuals.

How much of gender personality is learned and cultural, and how much is influenced by sex hormones and DNA? Well no one knows. I think our medical industry has taken a very wrong turn in deciding that drugs and surgery are the answer. Not really surprising, since our medical industry thinks drugs or surgery are the answer to all kinds of problems.

I think we need to question our medical industry, on this and many other topics. I have distrusted the overuse of certain medical interventions for a very long time. And THAT IS WHY I disagree with transgender "affirming care." It is not "affirming care." It is applying harmful substances and surgical procedures where they should not be applied.

I don't care if men wear dresses and makeup, or if women join the military. I DO NOT CARE. I have always felt kind of gender ambivalent myself, and rejected a couple of my early career attempts because they were 90% female. I never wore makeup or high heels. I do wear dresses when going out, and I have long hair, just because that's what I like. The women I know are all over the place when it comes to this -- some always wear pants and never wear makeup, some wear pants but do wear makeup, some wear jewelry but no makeup, etc.

I really hope our society will take a step back and get perspective, and reevaluate what the transgender activists have been claiming. Puberty blocking (chemical castration) drugs are controversial and we have to question the wisdom of letting young children take them.
I don't have enough understanding of how puberty blockers work to even begin to evaluate if they're a reasonable way to kick the can down the road until the person is an adult and can have full responsibility for his or her own choices.

If such drugs condemn someone to permanent androgyny, that's very problematic. If they merely postpone the process of puberty and the person could wind up in exactly the same place as he or she would have, just a few years later, that delay is hardly problematic at all.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in between, where if the person changes his or her mind, even after a few years, something like normal puberty changes are still possible, but maybe not to the full extent as if nature had run its course. I'd want to know where, exactly, on that spectrum things are coming out before even attempting to take a position on the topic.
 
Its not just the penis removed. It is gender dysphoria that is caused by a psychological gender identity (internal sense of gendered self) that is different from their biological gender. The penis is not removed but instead if it turned inside out to form the neo-vagina. It would be malpractice to cut it off because the nerves would be severed and as such there would be no feelings in the vagina. For someone who claimed in the past to have a PhD in psycholgioy you are astonishing ignorent of even basic psychological concepts.



How exactly do you plan to effectively treat gender dysphorioa without homones and the surgery if the patient desires and the Drs and psychologists determine that is the oroper couse of action with a diagnosis?

Gender dysphoria is not a physical disorder. It is psychological. It is based on stereotypes that vary depending on the culture. If I were a therapist treating these children, I would try to sort out all their feelings about the cultural stereotypes and why they feel they are the wrong sex. And that is what researchers should be doing, we need good scientific research on the problem. Not more drugs and scalpels.
 
Its not just the penis removed. It is gender dysphoria that is caused by a psychological gender identity (internal sense of gendered self) that is different from their biological gender. The penis is not removed but instead if it turned inside out to form the neo-vagina. It would be malpractice to cut it off because the nerves would be severed and as such there would be no feelings in the vagina. For someone who claimed in the past to have a PhD in psycholgioy you are astonishing ignorent of even basic psychological concepts.

You call me a liar almost every time you reply to my comments. It is bizarre that you think a PhD in experimental psychology would have taken courses on how to transform a male into a female. You obviously KNOW NOTHING about what is involved in getting a PhD.
 
I don't have enough understanding of how puberty blockers work to even begin to evaluate if they're a reasonable way to kick the can down the road until the person is an adult and can have full responsibility for his or her own choices.

If the individual never enters puberty, which is a time of brain development, are they really an "adult" with an adult understanding, or are they just older kids?

As for the other part of your post, you are correct. Puberty will resume once blockers are stopped, but it is not quite as full a puberty and there are impacts. I posted a slightly older article (believe it was from PBS 2017, maybe) about GNRH use on kids that were not transgender. They detailed quite a few impacts, provided quite a few studies and talked to the kids that wish they had never used them due to things like permanent pain, osteopenia, broken bones, etc.
 
Puberty blocking drugs for gender reassignment is pure insanity, as is removing a teenage girl's breasts for the same purpose. Any healthcare professional that supports such measures is an insane quack..
Do you know why the puberty blockers are used for short operiods for trans teens?


If she (actually he) desires that her breasts be removed as part of transition then she is a trans guy. How do you not understand this? Those breasts make him dysphoric. He feels like he is a guy bit somehow got stuck with a female body, do medial science addresses that gender dysphoria by changing his body as much as medially possible into that of a male with testosterone shot, a mastectomy and then a hysterectomy. This process is very long and not 3 weeks to 6 months. There is a long and detailed psychological diagnosis to make certain that they are actually trans, suffer from gender dysphoria, and not something other going such as child/sexual abuse or other mental illnesses happening before any medical intervention such as blockers or sex hormones are administered.

It is strongly recommended but not required that they see a experienced psychologist during the entire transition process and beyond for a year after surgery.
 
Shaprio is great, you should watch him for a week, might open your eyes. And no I don't agree with his stance on Transgender issues in most cases.
Ben Shapiro is a farce and his entire act is based on the Gish Gallop routine of overwhelming any opponent with nonsense claims that cannot all be debunked. He an Ann Coulter are not far apart on their debating style.
 
I don't have enough understanding of how puberty blockers work to even begin to evaluate if they're a reasonable way to kick the can down the road until the person is an adult and can have full responsibility for his or her own choices.

If such drugs condemn someone to permanent androgyny, that's very problematic. If they merely postpone the process of puberty and the person could wind up in exactly the same place as he or she would have, just a few years later, that delay is hardly problematic at all.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in between, where if the person changes his or her mind, even after a few years, something like normal puberty changes are still possible, but maybe not to the full extent as if nature had run its course. I'd want to know where, exactly, on that spectrum things are coming out before even attempting to take a position on the topic.

As far as I know, no one knows how the puberty blockers affect children long term. One transgender surgeon, who is a transgender, says puberty blockers can prevent a person from EVER experiencing an orgasm. Now that is not nothing. I can't remember the surgeon's name right now, but she is famous.

It is also known the blockers cause bone loss. Maybe many other things no one knows about yet. Transgender advocates claim the blockers are harmless and the effects reversible. That is what they WANT to believe, but we don't have the evidence.
 
One transgender surgeon, who is a transgender, says puberty blockers can prevent a person from EVER experiencing an orgasm.
Erica Anderson and edwardss-leeper
 
Erica Anderson and edwardss-leeper
In what state are teens getting approved for HRT without a diagnosis by a therapist of some sort? The lower limit of informed consent is 16, AFAIK. Where are the parents or a legal guardian? No Dr can be forced to write a script and many require a diagnosis by a therapist, or even a PhD psychologist.

As far as I know, no one knows how the puberty blockers affect children long term. One transgender surgeon, who is a transgender, says puberty blockers can prevent a person from EVER experiencing an orgasm. Now that is not nothing. I can't remember the surgeon's name right now, but she is famous.

It is also known the blockers cause bone loss. Maybe many other things no one knows about yet. Transgender advocates claim the blockers are harmless and the effects reversible. That is what they WANT to believe, but we don't have the evidence.
No medication is harmless. Haven't you ever watched the billions of prescription adverts on radio and TV? The list of contraindications is 1/3 of the commercial. The Dr and the patient must balance the risk and the reward of any treatment decision. When was the lat time that you were to the DR and had a script filled?
 
In what state are teens getting approved for HRT without a diagnosis by a therapist of some sort? The lower limit of informed consent is 16, AFAIK. Where are the parents or a legal guardian? No Dr can be forced to write a script and many require a diagnosis by a therapaist, or even a PhD psychologist.

You changed the subject. I was talking about puberty blockers, and how some experts think they can prevent a person from EVER experiencing an orgasm. NOT just while taking the drug, but FOR LIFE. NEVER experience an orgasm. Tell us why you think that is ok.
 
Ben Shapiro is a farce and his entire act is based on the Gish Gallop routine of overwhelming any opponent with nonsense claims that cannot all be debunked. He an Ann Coulter are not far apart on their debating style.
Is that what you were told to sound like you know what's up with Ben Shapiro? Since I mentioned his show, not him debating, your point was... irrelevant.
 
If the individual never enters puberty, which is a time of brain development, are they really an "adult" with an adult understanding, or are they just older kids?
I expect so. The maturation of the brain, in terms of the development of the kind of executive function we're relying on for a person to be responsible for his or her own decisions, is about the completion of the myelination of the prefrontal cortex. That's a very slow process that continues through a person's mid-20's, but it starts in infancy and is roughly the same in both sexes, so I don't think it's driven by sex hormones. As such, it shouldn't be impacted by puberty. If anything, freed of the wash of sex hormones that make teenagers notoriously impulsive, I'd expect a puberty-blocked 18-year-old to have higher executive function and to be better at making solid decisions he or she will be comfortable with later in life.
 
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