Zero Point Energy

[OscarLevant]

Are there any physicists on this forum?

I ask because I'm interested in the zero point energy debate. I know there are many skeptics, and healthy skepticism is a good thing, but not knee-jerk skepticism.

As a layman, I guess how I could describe it is the theory that there is vast untapped energy in the ether, all we have to do is find a way to access it and use it.

Here is the wiki entry on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

This is the simple english wiki entry:
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

I found this debate on it on a science forum at some university:

https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1256

seems that there are more skeptics than believers at least on that particular debate.

So then, the CT aspect goes something like this:

the government has reversed engineered some crashed UFOs, with the help of
surviving aliens, they have mastered zero point energy which is necessary to power space vehicles to travel the great distances.
Now, they aren't using thrust based propulsion, it's something else, anti-matter, or anti-gravity, and manipulation of space time, etc, portals, wormholes, something like that.

Of course, it all sounds like horsedung, but UFO guys are saying the government is suppressing it to keep petroleum industry corporations in power, who don't want zero point energy becoming popular, because if it were, they would no longer be in business, no longer control the world, wouldn't control politicians, etc. and wouldn't need to fight wars, prop up the military industrial complex, etc.

Even if that's all BS, probably is, though I'd love to believe it, and secretly I do believe it ( though of course it's speculation )

But, that's all irrelevant. All that matters to me is whether zero point energy is fact or at least a possibility or fantasy.

Didn't Einstein first say it was "dead as a door nail", then later changed his mind?


What say you?

 

[zyzygy]

Are there any physicists on this forum?

I ask because I'm interested in the zero point energy debate. I know there are many skeptics, and healthy skepticism is a good thing, but not knee-jerk skepticism.

As a layman, I guess how I could describe it is the theory that there is vast untapped energy in the ether, all we have to do is find a way to access it and use it.

Here is the wiki entry on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

This is the simple english wiki entry:
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

I found this debate on it on a science forum at some university:

https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1256

seems that there are more skeptics than believers at least on that particular debate.

So then, the CT aspect goes something like this:

the government has reversed engineered some crashed UFOs, with the help of
surviving aliens, they have mastered zero point energy which is necessary to power space vehicles to travel the great distances.
Now, they aren't using thrust based propulsion, it's something else, anti-matter, or anti-gravity, and manipulation of space time, etc, portals, wormholes, something like that.

Of course, it all sounds like horsedung, but UFO guys are saying the government is suppressing it to keep petroleum industry corporations in power, who don't want zero point energy becoming popular, because if it were, they would no longer be in business, no longer control the world, wouldn't control politicians, etc. and wouldn't need to fight wars, prop up the military industrial complex, etc.

Even if that's all BS, probably is, though I'd love to believe it, and secretly I do believe it ( though of course it's speculation )

But, that's all irrelevant. All that matters to me is whether zero point energy is fact or at least a possibility or fantasy.

Didn't Einstein first say it was "dead as a door nail", then later changed his mind?


What say you?

There have been speculations that usable energy might be extracted using this energy as a source using something called the Casimir effect, but this is almost certainly pseudoscience, as it would require using an extremely large collector device similar in some ways to an electronic capacitor, but much larger and thinner, with a vacuum dielectric; there is no knowledge currently extant that can allow the creation of such a collector cell, and even if it was possible, the zero point energy in a volume the size of the Earth is so small as to be fairly useless.[1]

According to Martin Gardner in his essay collection Did Adam and Eve Have Navels?, one of the chief researchers involved in ZPE study is Harold Puthoff, who was one of the most prominent of a crowd of Geller-gawkers in the 1970s height of the Human Potential Movement. Gardner noted that Puthoff's work on ZPE lacked transparency and solid science, and in that regard was much like his Geller work.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy https://www.nuenergy.org/zero-point-energy-debunked/

 

[OscarLevant]

There have been speculations that usable energy might be extracted using this energy as a source using something called the Casimir effect, but this is almost certainly pseudoscience, as it would require using an extremely large collector device similar in some ways to an electronic capacitor, but much larger and thinner, with a vacuum dielectric; there is no knowledge currently extant that can allow the creation of such a collector cell, and even if it was possible, the zero point energy in a volume the size of the Earth is so small as to be fairly useless.[1]

According to Martin Gardner in his essay collection Did Adam and Eve Have Navels?, one of the chief researchers involved in ZPE study is Harold Puthoff, who was one of the most prominent of a crowd of Geller-gawkers in the 1970s height of the Human Potential Movement. Gardner noted that Puthoff's work on ZPE lacked transparency and solid science, and in that regard was much like his Geller work.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy https://www.nuenergy.org/zero-point-energy-debunked/

Maybe so, I would never say never. I believe in UFOs, and assuming they exist and have travelled here, the question is, how?

 

[zyzygy]

Maybe so, I would never say never. I believe in UFOs, and assuming they exist and have travelled here, the question is, how?

It you wish to fantasize, then go ahead. Belief in alien visitations is a religion.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

I don’t know. The more I learn about science the more I think we are missing. I think we humans think we are a lot smarter than we actually are. I think there is a good possibility that we are grasping the true nature of the universe not much better than we would expect a chimpanzee to grasp the nature of the universe.

That said, I don’t think our government has tapped into zero point energy and is keeping it from us. If zero point energy is possible I would bet good money that the government is just as clueless of it as we are.

 

[Exquisitor]

I don’t know. The more I learn about science the more I think we are missing. I think we humans think we are a lot smarter than we actually are. I think there is a good possibility that we are grasping the true nature of the universe not much better than we would expect a chimpanzee to grasp the nature of the universe.

That said, I don’t think our government has tapped into zero point energy and is keeping it from us. If zero point energy is possible I would bet good money that the government is just as clueless of it as we are.

I doubt the government or military has zero point energy.

I know some people believe we have bases on Mars and planes that fly super fast, but I think these are all just dimensional anomalies.

Sure there's a dimension where we are going to the stars and you could go there and even bring proof back here such as super-fast aircraft.

A faster than light travel method leaves the visitor experiencing you in say a helicopter.

The Illuminati in the retreats use zero point with their minds and very likely have contrived devices that produce zero point.

Whether these devices will ever be released to the outer world is anyone's guess.

Presently such devices would be used in war.

I need such a device to heat my home when the natural gas runs out.

 

[zyzygy]

I doubt the government or military has zero point energy.

I know some people believe we have bases on Mars and planes that fly super fast, but I think these are all just dimensional anomalies.

Sure there's a dimension where we are going to the stars and you could go there and even bring proof back here such as super-fast aircraft.

A faster than light travel method leaves the visitor experiencing you in say a helicopter.

The Illuminati in the retreats use zero point with their minds and very likely have contrived devices that produce zero point.

Whether these devices will ever be released to the outer world is anyone's guess.

Presently such devices would be used in war.

I need such a device to heat my home when the natural gas runs out.

Very funny!

 

[Exquisitor]

Very funny!

What's funny about it?

The truth is very funny.

 

[zyzygy]

What's funny about it?

The truth is very funny.

Prove that it is the truth. Links please.

 

[Exquisitor]

Prove that it is the truth. Links please.

Sorry about the links.

This is all philosophical; deductive reasoning.

I saw a clip the other day some guy reporting on super fast aircraft; I doubt he's a liar; the only explanation I can come up with is dimensional and the above is an explanation of this.

To know about the retreats you need to read the first three (book two actually, but read book one first) "I AM" books and I'm not going to post a link to the Saint Germain Foundation or Press.

 

[zyzygy]

Sorry about the links.

This is all philosophical; deductive reasoning.

I saw a clip the other day some guy reporting on super fast aircraft; I doubt he's a liar; the only explanation I can come up with is dimensional and the above is an explanation of this.

To know about the retreats you need to read the first three (book two actually, but read book one first) "I AM" books and I'm not going to post a link to the Saint Germain Foundation or Press.

All aircraft have dimensions. The Illuminati do not exist. Those books are nonsense. This is a very funny site.
https://www.saintgermainfoundation.org/SGF_07_IAMTeach_SpecialActivities_Pageants.html

 

[zyzygy]

You can't make up this stuff...... oh, wait....



As you might expect, occultists seized on the story. Several books on palmistry and astrology bore his name. Arch-Theosophist Helena Blavatsky identified the Count as one of the ‘Masters of Wisdom’ who guided her, and hinted she had secret documents pertaining to him. In fact, what she had was a copy of the Adhémar Souvenirs, which she loaned to Isabel Cooper-Oakley, one of the Count’s first biographers. The then Countess of Adhémar, also a Theosophist, vouched for her ancestor, so Lamothe-Langon’s fantasies reached a wider audience than they deserved. 9

Another Theosophist, C W Leadbeater, met a bearded and uniformed St-Germain in Rome in 1926. In 1923, Aleister Crowley had jotted an idea in his diary: “Shall I ‘become’ Comte de St Germain with a wig & beard – and start a New Legend?” 10 I’m afraid this is just coincidence. By then, some Theosophists were saying St-Germain was the incarnation of the goddess Venus. From there, it was a short jump to Guy Ballard, who claimed the Count actually introduced him to visitors from Venus. In his book, Ballard revealed a 1930 encounter with St-Germain on Mt Shasta in California. The Count, always an entertaining host, pulled gold from the air, tamed a panther, and took Guy and his wife to a convention of Venusians in the Grand Tetons. 11

The Ballards formed a group called the I AM Foundation, which disseminated many channelled messages from the obliging Count. They also published a portrait quite unlike the historical one – featuring a dark, bearded, Christ-like figure. It was soon replaced with a blonder, more Californian version. There’s one more link to this Venusian chain. UFO contactee George Adamski was familiar with Ballardiana, and his own 1952 meeting with a tourist from Venus may have been inspired by Guy’s quality time with St-Germain. 12

Meanwhile, I AM begat the Church Universal and Triumphant led by Mark and Elizabeth Clare Prophet. The Church’s biography of St-Germain now includes incarnations as an Atlantean priest, Merlin, both Bacons (Roger and Francis) and Columbus. He designed the American flag, helped write the Constitution and founded the Boy Scouts. He lives in a pink crystal cave in Wyoming, where he leads the fight against tobacco, alcohol, sugar, and dissonant music. 13 The Church distributes two portraits – Ascended Master St-Germain and Knight Commander St-Germain. Perhaps we’re back to the two St-Germains of Alliette!

And why not make that three? Back in the Count’s beloved France, the late Richard Chanfray bravely donned the mantle. After a troubled youth, including a suicide attempt and a bout of amnesia, Chanfray landed in prison for robbery. There, he had a series of dreams that convinced him he was the illustrious Count. On 28 January 1972, he made a memorable appearance on French television, changing lead into gold, discussing his experiments with giant insects, and revealing that Louis XV was still alive and living in the Midi. He went on to cut an LP and open an antique shop in Paris. One can hardly blame him for ‘becoming’ the Count; he certainly had more fun than he did as Richard Chanfray.
https://trianglebook.weebly.com/debunking.html#

 

[Mr Person]

Maybe so, I would never say never. I believe in UFOs, and assuming they exist and have travelled here, the question is, how?

Your belief in UFOs that have traveled here in no way creates a "how?" for anyone but yourself.

"I thought of some unproven bull**** in now way creates is this other unproven bull**** possibly true ?" for the rest of reality.

The Illuminati in the retreats use zero point with their minds and very likely have contrived devices that produce zero point.

But how does that explain the aliens' anal fetish?

This is all philosophical; deductive reasoning. I saw a clip the other day some guy reporting on super fast aircraft; I doubt he's a liar; the only explanation I can come up with is dimensional and the above is an explanation of this.

It's not philosophy, it's not deduction, "some guy said some **** on youtube" isn't evidence, and saying "dimensional" does not make the nonsense sound any more credible.

 

[Exquisitor]

All aircraft have dimensions. The Illuminati do not exist. Those books are nonsense. This is a very funny site.
https://www.saintgermainfoundation.org/SGF_07_IAMTeach_SpecialActivities_Pageants.html

Here's a link describing his torture by the Spanish Inquisition for two years.

Most Holy Trinosophia Index

I don't know if I should spill the beans. The books are not nonsense. I approach them with two postulates: 1) God is not infallible and He does not bestow infallibility on anyone else or their writings. 2) Satan does not need to write any counterfeit scripture, he just uses the ones that God writes.

Thus as a demon I have interest in studying the Scripture.

Saint Germain in previous births was Samuel the Prophet, the Lord's guardian, Saint Alban who was martyred in the middle ages, Christopher Columbus who raped the Native Americans, who the founding Architects all followed with their slaves; and finally; Sir Francis Bacon who was Lord of the House of Commons and Attorney General for England before he retired as told in the prophetic verse of Alister Crowley above to travel Europe as a mystic alchemist diplomat who could mend flaws in gems, precipitate elixirs and was seen dancing with a queen when she was a young girl and when she was old but he hadn't aged. After his capture Angels told him they would be able to release him in two years and after this he traveled to the Himalayan Mountains and raised his body. He tutored Napoleon who chose to co-operate with the Cosmic Law another way spanking England (three times) for slaughtering the Holy Indian cattle. He was the inspiration behind the founding Architects and appeared at the signing of the Declaration of Independence behind locked doors giving a speech and urging the founders to sign it and they as they all rushed forward to sign it he collapsed in a chair and when they turned around he was gone.

The books are pretty straightforward. What they'll do to you is another thing. They like to think in terms of one being ready. Reading the books is a great austerity.

The Ballards in their previous births were President Washington and Benjamin Franklin and her Joan of Arc; their son Lafayette.

The characters in the book enter several retreats; one in the Grand Teton Mountains where Venus visits every New Years Eve and Eve of July first.

I have a book of discourses by Beloved Mighty Victory, to which I've only read the introduction, where says he's only experienced victory for hundreds of thousands of centuries; on the order of ten million years. I don't know how long it takes for a planet to become tidally locked, but scientists speculate Venus may have had nicer weather in the past. The "I AM" doesn't tell much about them except that they stayed to watch over Earth. Maybe I'll read the book, there's got to be some information on the Venusians there.

 

[zyzygy]

Here's a link describing his torture by the Spanish Inquisition for two years.

Most Holy Trinosophia Index

I don't know if I should spill the beans. The books are not nonsense. I approach them with two postulates: 1) God is not infallible and He does not bestow infallibility on anyone else or their writings. 2) Satan does not need to write any counterfeit scripture, he just uses the ones that God writes.

Thus as a demon I have interest in studying the Scripture.

Saint Germain in previous births was Samuel the Prophet, the Lord's guardian, Saint Alban who was martyred in the middle ages, Christopher Columbus who raped the Native Americans, who the founding Architects all followed with their slaves; and finally; Sir Francis Bacon who was Lord of the House of Commons and Attorney General for England before he retired as told in the prophetic verse of Alister Crowley above to travel Europe as a mystic alchemist diplomat who could mend flaws in gems, precipitate elixirs and was seen dancing with a queen when she was a young girl and when she was old but he hadn't aged. After his capture Angels told him they would be able to release him in two years and after this he traveled to the Himalayan Mountains and raised his body. He tutored Napoleon who chose to co-operate with the Cosmic Law another way spanking England (three times) for slaughtering the Holy Indian cattle. He was the inspiration behind the founding Architects and appeared at the signing of the Declaration of Independence behind locked doors giving a speech and urging the founders to sign it and they as they all rushed forward to sign it he collapsed in a chair and when they turned around he was gone.

The books are pretty straightforward. What they'll do to you is another thing. They like to think in terms of one being ready. Reading the books is a great austerity.

The Ballards in their previous births were President Washington and Benjamin Franklin and her Joan of Arc; their son Lafayette.

The characters in the book enter several retreats; one in the Grand Teton Mountains where Venus visits every New Years Eve and Eve of July first.

I have a book of discourses by Beloved Mighty Victory, to which I've only read the introduction, where says he's only experienced victory for hundreds of thousands of centuries; on the order of ten million years. I don't know how long it takes for a planet to become tidally locked, but scientists speculate Venus may have had nicer weather in the past. The "I AM" doesn't tell much about them except that they stayed to watch over Earth. Maybe I'll read the book, there's got to be some information on the Venusians there.

The books are fiction. There are no Venusians. The surface temperature of Venus is 900 degrees centigrade, the atmosphere is sulfuric acid. Probes reveal a hell.

 

[Exquisitor]

The books are fiction. There are no Venusians. The surface temperature of Venus is 900 degrees centigrade, the atmosphere is sulfuric acid. Probes reveal a hell.

Sure now, ascended they aren't limited by time and space,but the details of their evolution and the planet's spin slowing down and the sulfuric acid atmosphere; how did it come about?

Fiction? Probably not, I've experienced enough to know there is experience more advanced.

 

[zyzygy]

Fiction? Definitely yes.

 

[Thoreau72]

I don’t know. The more I learn about science the more I think we are missing. I think we humans think we are a lot smarter than we actually are. I think there is a good possibility that we are grasping the true nature of the universe not much better than we would expect a chimpanzee to grasp the nature of the universe.

That said, I don’t think our government has tapped into zero point energy and is keeping it from us. If zero point energy is possible I would bet good money that the government is just as clueless of it as we are.

I agree very much with your first sentences, but disagree with your last regarding government secrecy. If they have nothing to hide, why are they hiding so much? Why is the western desert so full of top secret airspace and ground area?

Government agents were pretty much the beneficiaries of all the records and drawings of Tesla back when he died alone in his New York apartment. It would not be hard to believe that his technology regarding 'free electricity' has been kept secret so that individuals and corporations heavily invested in more conventional technology could prosper. Tesla's general principles might be compared to Zero Point Energy.

 

[Exquisitor]

Fiction? Definitely yes.

Huh, I forgot to say about Francis Bacon that he wrote Shakespeare.

Come on, I've experienced all this first hand, there's no way they're fake, but if you need to think so for your sanctity, well, you're most welcome to do this.

 

[Exquisitor]

I agree very much with your first sentences, but disagree with your last regarding government secrecy. If they have nothing to hide, why are they hiding so much? Why is the western desert so full of top secret airspace and ground area?

Government agents were pretty much the beneficiaries of all the records and drawings of Tesla back when he died alone in his New York apartment. It would not be hard to believe that his technology regarding 'free electricity' has been kept secret so that individuals and corporations heavily invested in more conventional technology could prosper. Tesla's general principles might be compared to Zero Point Energy.

If we had zero point, we'd be using it to go into space.

Secret air and ground space is for testing experimental, dimensional and alien technologies and visitors and seems pretty normal to me.

 

[zyzygy]

Huh, I forgot to say about Francis Bacon that he wrote Shakespeare.

Come on, I've experienced all this first hand, there's no way they're fake, but if you need to think so for your sanctity, well, you're most welcome to do this.

You claim to have experienced it first hand. I doubt that you have met Venusians.

 

[zyzygy]

If we had zero point, we'd be using it to go into space.

Secret air and ground space is for testing experimental, dimensional and alien technologies and visitors and seems pretty normal to me.

No surprise there.

 

[Exquisitor]

You claim to have experienced it first hand. I doubt that you have met Venusians.

No, I haven't, but the retreats are there and the Ascended Masters are real although they won't let you lean on them, you must stand on your own two feet.

Scientists say the Earth could get like Venus. If the Oceans boiled away we would have a thick atmosphere.

 

[zyzygy]

No, I haven't, but the retreats are there and the Ascended Masters are real although they won't let you lean on them, you must stand on your own two feet.

Scientists say the Earth could get like Venus. If the Oceans boiled away we would have a thick atmosphere.

So you have visited these retreats and met the masters?

 

[longview]

The idea that even when an atom is at ground state there is still practical energy that can be extracted,
is not actually new, but the devil is in the details.
The closest anyone has come is a Dr. Randell Mills.
https://brilliantlightpower.com/
at the center of his concept is the idea that hydrogen as we know it, is not at a true ground state,
but a very common stable state.
His claim is that the early cold fusion experiments, pushed hydrogen off the ledge, releases
a photon with 13.6 eV of energy, somewhere in the UV range, this represents a lot of energy.
He further claims that he has defined a new type of physics to describe this, and has built over unity
devices that have been tested successfully.
https://brilliantlightpower.com/validation-reports/
That said, Mills himself comes across like a hawker at a carnival.
He is building devices that people say work, yet the idea is not catching on.
Like I said the devil is in the details.