Chris
Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2005
- Messages
- 120
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- Location
- Ontario, Canada
- Gender
- Undisclosed
- Political Leaning
- Slightly Liberal
Chris said:I was reading a newspaper article a little while back about a journalist's first hand accounts traveling and speaking with people throughout the former Yugoslav countires. It's been almost 15 years now since the fighting first began, yet hostilities still run high among many citizens, especially in Bosnia and Kosovo.
I am grateful to the peacekeepers who no doubt saved many lives during the conflicts and while not the most desirable response, in retrospect I'm glad the NATO countires eventually took military action. However I am forced to stop and reflect on the key question "has anything really been resolved?" If left to their own devices would the people in the former hot spots be any more reasonable or compromising than they were back than?
Given the kind of charged responses this guy got, it doesn't sound promising. What do you think? What more do you think could or should be done to improve the current situation in the former Yugoslavia?
Chris said:I was reading a newspaper article a little while back about a journalist's first hand accounts traveling and speaking with people throughout the former Yugoslav countires. It's been almost 15 years now since the fighting first began, yet hostilities still run high among many citizens, especially in Bosnia and Kosovo.
I am grateful to the peacekeepers who no doubt saved many lives during the conflicts and while not the most desirable response, in retrospect I'm glad the NATO countires eventually took military action. However I am forced to stop and reflect on the key question "has anything really been resolved?" If left to their own devices would the people in the former hot spots be any more reasonable or compromising than they were back than?
Given the kind of charged responses this guy got, it doesn't sound promising. What do you think? What more do you think could or should be done to improve the current situation in the former Yugoslavia?
Comrade Brian said:I hear that people are afraid to go to other peoples backyards and many other places for fear of mines.
I don't know what should be done.
TimmyBoy said:I spent alot of time in Bosnia. I think the wars in the Former Yugoslavia was completely avoidable. Milosevic was a communist and switched to being nationalist. He had to start and wage wars to stay in power and that is what he did. Here is where I think the US should have gotten involved much, much sooner than what we did. I think the responses this reporter got was coming from the bitter feelings in the aftermath of all the bloodshed. Before the war, the Serbs, Muslims and Croats got along great in Bosnia. They intermarried with one another and had children with one another. Good friends with each other. Which brings me to the conclusion that just because somebody doesn't notice you are different in your own way right now, somewhere in the future, they might and it could be held against you.
Chris said:I was reading a newspaper article a little while back about a journalist's first hand accounts traveling and speaking with people throughout the former Yugoslav countires. It's been almost 15 years now since the fighting first began, yet hostilities still run high among many citizens, especially in Bosnia and Kosovo.
I am grateful to the peacekeepers who no doubt saved many lives during the conflicts and while not the most desirable response, in retrospect I'm glad the NATO countires eventually took military action. However I am forced to stop and reflect on the key question "has anything really been resolved?" If left to their own devices would the people in the former hot spots be any more reasonable or compromising than they were back than?
Given the kind of charged responses this guy got, it doesn't sound promising. What do you think? What more do you think could or should be done to improve the current situation in the former Yugoslavia?
Chris said:While I'm sure this idea has been raised and scrutinized before, and while it certainly wouldn't resolve all the problems, I think that abandoning the communist era political boundaries and redrawing them along ethnic/cultural lines would be greatly beneficial to stabilizing the region.
I fail to see what is so wrong with having a "greater" Serbia, Albania, Croatia, Hungary, etc. Don't get me wrong, I condemn Milsosevic and his like for their crimes, but I see not reason why this should invalidate a desire common to many displaced people among the former Yugoslav states to be part of the nation of their ethnic majority.
Bosnia and Kosovo stand out as the most poignant examples of this. If the people of Bosnia had their right to self determination respected by the international community about 2/3's of the population would almost certainly split to join Serbia and Croatia the first chance they got. What hope is there for a country which most people have no desire to be a part of? If I were an investor there is no way I'd invest any money in a country plagued by so much division and instability. If the non-Bosniak areas left it might actually bring some meaningful unity to the country and usher in some prosperity.
Kosovo is even worse. In numerous independent polls the Albanian and Serb populations of Kosovo have had no illusions about what they want for themselves. The Serbs (especially in the north where they constitute a majority in several regions) want to be re-united with Serbia and Montenegro. They see no future for themselves in an Albanian dominated Kosovo. On the flip side the Albanians are dead set against any attempt to re-unify with Serbia. The Albanians have stated very clearly that they either want outright independence or unification with Albania. Despite this the region remains in a perpetual state of limbo, as the UN, NATO, and the international community at large remain indecisive in what to do with the territory.
http://www.hooverdigest.org/043/johnson.html
I think Bosnia and Kosovo are shinning examples of maintaining territorial integrity at the expense of all common sense. Why should the dead communist dictator of Yugoslavia have a greater say over the fate of the region's people than the people themselves? I find it outrageous that even when the people have expressed their will clearly in a fair and democratic fashion observers are still determined to enforce the hopeless status quo.
Being from a very multi-cultural region myself (greater Toronto area) where people get along well with each other for the most part, I fail to see why the various successor states of Yugoslavia couldn't have strong, mutually beneficial relations with one another too. However at the same time I feel that people should be able to embrace multi-culturalism not have it forced upon them through the arbitrary slicing and dicing of different populations.
TimmyBoy said:The wars in the Former Yugoslavia would not have happenned if Milosevic was not in power.QUOTE]
I'm totally behind you on this one. Milosevic and others played off the unresolved tensions between the Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, etc to their benefit. Although Milosevic was undoubtedly the worst of the worst in the conflict there were many other significant players. I'm also quite confident that Franjo Tudman would have been forced to answer for war crimes as well had he not died shortly after the Yugoslav wars (the Krajina Serbs didn't flee their 500 year old homeland of their own free will).
The point I'm trying to make is that the various nation states of the Balkans should correspond to the best interests of as many people as possible, which they are far from at the moment. Germany, Italy, Russia, you name it were forged through brutal and costly wars that would surely be condemned by modern standards, yet the Serbs, Croats, Albanians, etc can't peacefully choose to cede from or join another state? The international community is practically inviting future territorial wars.
Chris said:TimmyBoy said:The wars in the Former Yugoslavia would not have happenned if Milosevic was not in power.QUOTE]
I'm totally behind you on this one. Milosevic and others played off the unresolved tensions between the Serbs, Croats, Bosniaks, etc to their benefit. Although Milosevic was undoubtedly the worst of the worst in the conflict there were many other significant players. I'm also quite confident that Franjo Tudman would have been forced to answer for war crimes as well had he not died shortly after the Yugoslav wars (the Krajina Serbs didn't flee their 500 year old homeland of their own free will).
The point I'm trying to make is that the various nation states of the Balkans should correspond to the best interests of as many people as possible, which they are far from at the moment. Germany, Italy, Russia, you name it were forged through brutal and costly wars that would surely be condemned by modern standards, yet the Serbs, Croats, Albanians, etc can't peacefully choose to cede from or join another state? The international community is practically inviting future territorial wars.
The "international community" invited more wars in this part of Europe by failing to respond to the injustice of the genocide and war crimes that were committed their and instead chose to intentionally ignore it, hoping it would simply just go away.
TimmyBoy said:Chris said:The "international community" invited more wars in this part of Europe by failing to respond to the injustice of the genocide and war crimes that were committed their and instead chose to intentionally ignore it, hoping it would simply just go away.
But they always know what's best when it comes to the U.S.
MiamiFlorida said:TimmyBoy said:But they always know what's best when it comes to the U.S.
I worked with alot of different countries and their troops. Most of them are good people. The US is a superpower with alot of influence in the world, so every country is going to have their own opinion on "what's best" for the US since American decisions affect their countries. You would be surprised if I told you how we road marched up and down the steep mountains of Bosnia with French Marines. Very professional, tough soldiers. Their was strong unity between us and the French Marines and their was a strong mutual respect. To be frank with you, I would be willing to go to war anyday with the French Marines and I know I could count on them to watch my back, at least the ones I was with, I had alot of confidence in them. After the road marches, we were all so wore out and exhausted. The marches up the steep mountains were very tough even for a special forces type unit like the Army Rangers (my platoon leader was prior enlisted, tabbed out of Ranger school and served in Ranger battalion for a number of years and he said the road march we went on with the French Marines was tough by Ranger Battalion standards). I remember being up top the mountain and seeing the whole world below me and how thin the air was. It was one of the best moments of my life. I was exhausted but had such a strong feeling of accomplishment, comradship and feeling literally on top of the world. I took pictures with us and the French Marines together on that moutaintop. A unity, a friendship that existed between us and the French troops. We returned to the French base in Mostar, had red wine and French bread in their chow hall. They would eat rabbit for meat as well. Later that night we bought each other drinks at their bar and they waved American flags drunk while we waved the French flag drunk as hell and took group pictures of each other.
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