• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Academia

Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

That's fine. But when the wells "dry up" and they're unemployed, you'll be going on about how they're dumbasses without enough sense to get themselves an education.

Count me as rejecting the construct that no college degree=dumbasses.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

So you're either saying all oil field workers are conservative, or only liberals seek higher education.

At least in the GoM, the vast bulk are quite conservative. Most are rabidly pro-gun and anti-Obama.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad


Just as an FYI, frac hands make around $16/hr, work 100+ hr weeks, live in a mancamp, which is basically an army barrack, for 400/month, and work 2 weeks on 1 week off. Work is rain or shine, it was -19 a couple nights ago, they were outside rigging horsepower down. Trust me, you make money, but there is quite a cost. Very few people make a career out of these jobs, the turnover is insanely high. I think most would elect to get an education and make 50-100k a year in a cushy office setting. At least you could be the engineer on location or something with an education.
 
Last edited:
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

Just as an FYI, frac hands make around $16/hr, work 100+ hr weeks, live in a mancamp, which is basically an army barrack, for 400/month, and work 2 weeks on 1 week off. Work is rain or shine, it was -19 a couple nights ago, they were outside rigging horsepower down. Trust me, you make money, but there is quite a cost. Very few people make a career out of these jobs, the turnover is insanely high. I think most would elect to get an education and make 50-100k a year in a cushy office setting. At least you could be the engineer on location or something with an education.

Very true. Capitalism is a great system, but the trick is to round up the initial capital to get started. Most of the people I've known who took the jobs like you describe have done it in order to get their initial nest egg.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad


Actually, I would do anything to not have to be in oil territory in this state.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

Doing hard physical work in unpleasant weather, Teaches you appreciate
a nice clean office job.
Education takes many forms, not all of them come from Universities.
It is short sighted to disregard education from field experience.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad


I'm seriously thinking of gong to North Dakota and working fracking... The pay is good and at 32 I can still work hard. Not to mention I could use a change of scenery... Hard work and long days but I'm down for that... My intellectual mind has no place in society - why not?
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

Doing hard physical work in unpleasant weather, Teaches you appreciate
a nice clean office job.
Education takes many forms, not all of them come from Universities.
It is short sighted to disregard education from field experience.

Very well said. It is unfortunate that more of our youngsters do not understand this.
 
I'm seriously thinking of gong to North Dakota and working fracking... The pay is good and at 32 I can still work hard. Not to mention I could use a change of scenery... Hard work and long days but I'm down for that... My intellectual mind has no place in society - why not?

Make sure you have living arrangements. It's too cold here until you do. Cost of living has shot up dramatically in certain areas of the state, so be aware of the high price tag that comes with the good wage. It's a bit rough of an area now, at least in those regions. That North Dakota nice isn't so present in those areas. If you can make it to Bismarck-perhaps doing something else related to the boom-it's a good place, but living arrangements are scarce. Nevertheless, that's a good city to at least visit.
 
Last edited:
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

Living arrangements are indeed tough. I've heard $1,000 per month for a single room apartment with a shared bathroom down the hall - if you can find a vacancy.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

Make sure you have living arrangements. It's too cold here until you do. Cost of living has shot up dramatically in certain areas of the state, so be aware of the high price tag that comes with the good wage. It's a bit rough of an area now, at least in those regions. That North Dakota nice isn't so present in those areas. If you can make it to Bismarck-perhaps doing something else related to the boom-it's a good place, but living arrangements are scarce. Nevertheless, that's a good city to at least visit.

I'm from Chicago so I know cold, not to mention grew up playing hockey out on the lake so I know cold. I suppose fracking would be something new to me, however I posses several fall-back skills that could employ me if things don't work out... Everything from a general contractor to a school teacher....
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

I'm from Chicago so I know cold, not to mention grew up playing hockey out on the lake so I know cold. I suppose fracking would be something new to me, however I posses several fall-back skills that could employ me if things don't work out... Everything from a general contractor to a school teacher....

I would say the only difference is that in northern North Dakota, wind chill calculated into the temperature frequently reaches -20 through -50 (though until lately we had pretty mild winters for the past few years). When we got 20 degrees, it felt like spring, and you would be tempted to wear shorts and sleeveless shirts. Summers, well, from the brief visit to Chicago I had, you should be well adjusted to the hot and humid temperatures that can come through on occasion.

If you were to go ahead and do it, that's great. It seems like a grueling pace for a lot of those positions, because of the wide pool of workers.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

I would say the only difference is that in northern North Dakota, wind chill calculated into the temperature frequently reaches -20 through -50 (though until lately we had pretty mild winters for the past few years). When we got 20 degrees, it felt like spring, and you would be tempted to wear shorts and sleeveless shirts. Summers, well, from the brief visit to Chicago I had, you should be well adjusted to the hot and humid temperatures that can come through on occasion.

If you were to go ahead and do it, that's great. It seems like a grueling pace for a lot of those positions, because of the wide pool of workers.

I can take it, no problem.

I like a new challenge, it's just a new chapter in my life - if I don't enjoy it (which I doubt) I always have a warm bed in Chicago. I wont be back once I leave....I suppose the old saying is "Home is where you make it" and I have to find mine.. Fracking is a good start.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

I can take it, no problem.

I like a new challenge, it's just a new chapter in my life - if I don't enjoy it (which I doubt) I always have a warm bed in Chicago. I wont be back once I leave....I suppose the old saying is "Home is where you make it" and I have to find mine.. Fracking is a good start.

If you want a challange and adventure you would certainly enjoy it. Where you will be working in north dakota is at least 20 degrees colder on average in december and january than chicago. Also, if you do go work I would recommend keeping your permanent address in chicago or at a relatives until you can get a stable place in nd. I moved 5 times in my first six months, and the place I have now does not get served by the USPS yet as it is still an area under construction, and trust me you will be laughed at if you try and get a PO Box as half the town is waiting for one.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

If you want a challange and adventure you would certainly enjoy it. Where you will be working in north dakota is at least 20 degrees colder on average in december and january than chicago. Also, if you do go work I would recommend keeping your permanent address in chicago or at a relatives until you can get a stable place in nd. I moved 5 times in my first six months, and the place I have now does not get served by the USPS yet as it is still an area under construction, and trust me you will be laughed at if you try and get a PO Box as half the town is waiting for one.

It's a cold sum bitch right now....but at least it's warmer than last week!
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

It's a cold sum bitch right now....but at least it's warmer than last week!

Ha, yaaa. I think this is about the coldest its been this year. I'm not sure it got above -10 today.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

I can take it, no problem.

I like a new challenge, it's just a new chapter in my life - if I don't enjoy it (which I doubt) I always have a warm bed in Chicago. I wont be back once I leave....I suppose the old saying is "Home is where you make it" and I have to find mine.. Fracking is a good start.

Yesterday the temperature was -21 in Williston, and the wind chill was -46 in Minot and over in Outlook MT. You can probably leave your shorts and tennis racket behind but, as the locals say, those temps keep the riffraff out... :mrgreen:
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

I can take it, no problem.

I like a new challenge, it's just a new chapter in my life - if I don't enjoy it (which I doubt) I always have a warm bed in Chicago. I wont be back once I leave....I suppose the old saying is "Home is where you make it" and I have to find mine.. Fracking is a good start.

Fracking will die out if they do not figure a way to protect the local water supply.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

Yup.

And with the increased demand for
education in these fields the cost of education in them will increase. Which means that students will have to take out more in student loans to pay for a college education in these fields.

But with a larger workforce qualified in these fields, oil companies will be able to pay lower salaries since they have a greater pool from which to hire.

Which means those who get so in debt for an education in this field but can't get a salary capable to pay it off will be in the same boat as the academics you say liberals push forward instead.

And conservatives such as yourself will say it'll be those students fault for getting a degree that won't pay enough for being educated in it.

Way to go.

This is nonsense. Oil companies have historically paid well.

Two good reasons....The science aspect of it like a petro chemist actually takes some brains to learn. With marijauna use being main streamed there will actuy be a demand for these positions. American youth are getting dumber and its being enabled by our education system.

My Cousins a petro Chemist for Exxon. She's a literal genius ( IQ +150) and it takes alot of innate intelligence plus a good working ethic to get that verry dificult degree.

Second is the labor side. Allotof kids are too weak or entitled to ever step into the boots of a oil field worker. Even for the Hi pay.

Roughnecks and tool pushers are very tough people.

North Dakota's oil boom is easy enough to track down. What are they paying people to move up there and wotk ? You need a hint ? Its ALLOT.

So your look into the future is flawed.

Oil field work or oil industry work is not fpr everyone, thus the huge pay scale that had existed for years and the huge pay scale to come will be maintained.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

Fracking will die out if they do not figure a way to protect the local water supply.[/
QUOTE]

If that were the case it would have never gotten to level its at now.

Its going no where. Too much money in it, too many politicians invested in it.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

Thats very true in a way. A while back, just for the heck of it, I looked into a success rates of for profit colleges. They were absolutely terrible. Then I discovered that the success rates of older students attending traditional colleges were also terrible. On the surface this seems to go against what you are saying, but I kept digging, and I found a study that compared younger and older students college performance on the bases of equalizing their high school academic performance and SAT scores. Turns out, most older college students were terrible students in high school (probably explains why many of them didn't attend college directly out of high school). But when well academically qualified older students were compared to traditional college age students with equal qualifications, the older students almost always did better.

I have an acquantance, the parent of a kid who my son went to school with, who went to college at age 40. He graduated last spring, it was just our local community college, but he had a 4.0 gpa and was the only graduating student with a 4.0.

Personally, I attended college for two years, then did some time in the military before returning to college. I did much better after my stint in the military, I studied more, never missed a class, and it paid off with better grades.

I am all for highly motivated well qualified students who know exactly what they want to study in college going directly into college from high school, but many people would probably better off waiting a few years.

That's kind of creepy... that's its exactly what I'm doing. Heading to the great lakes for basic in April.

Discipline has a lot to do with success in college (well in everything really).
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

That's kind of creepy... that's its exactly what I'm doing. Heading to the great lakes for basic in April.

Discipline has a lot to do with success in college (well in everything really).

Very true. And thank you for your service.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

The petroleum INDUSTRY is a lot more than a few roughnecks and chemists. There is a very wide variety of jobs requiring a complete spectrum of education and skills - mostly pretty light on the liberal arts side, though. BUT, there is no great secret as to WHY there are so many top paying jobs today in the North American oil industry. 10 years ago, the NYMEX price of crude was less than 1/3 of what it is today, whereas the costs of production (given same oil to same oil) is about the same. 10 years ago, it was extremely hard to produce oil and actually make a profit, so only low cost reservoirs were in production, and the big buck jobs were in the Middle East. Fast forward to today and we find that the desire to buy those $90 barrels (nowhere near what is paid at the wellhead, BTW) within the domestic economy, plus a price high enough to pay for some development of expensive fields and explore for some new stuff means that there is a lot more demand for workers than anywhere else in the economy. That has pushed the price paid far, far above the same jobs in the lower skill end over what was paid 10 years ago. Just to put it into perspective, though, we are not talking $50k a year - anywhere that is "hot" it would be really hard to make less than 6 figures unless you were a lazy and stupid individual.

As to the issue of hydraulic fracturing ("frac-ing"): the bit about protecting aquifers is certainly true in SOME cases, but in the vast majority of oilfields, potable water is no where near or accessible from reservoir rock. To denigrate work opportunities in the oil patch because this is somehow not sustainable or some idiotic idea that production will just dry up when the price goes down pretty much ignores the fact that it is DEMAND for crude oil and refined products that drives the markets and prices - and even the most unemployable PhD in basket weaving will waste even more energy tomorrow than they do today. Taking an airline or waddling their SUV down the highway to love-ins, protests and "green" rallies is simply the fact of their life - as is living in heated and air conditioned comfort in energy wasting buildings and institutions while they are studying to perfect their lifestyle. If the price goes down, the jobs will indeed reduce and the wages will fall, but you really have to ask yourself why anyone who CAN (and is willing to actually to work) pack a half million of so into their bank account for a few years while they are young and able would rather sit in an institution THAT WILL STILL BE THERE and naval gaze while the world passes them by?

I am highly impressed that there ARE still young people who can make such a logical choice. I get to work with new grads, techs and trades quite a bit - ones from technical disciplines - so I know it is not completely out of the ordinary. However, I can sure tell you that if an employer is looking at someone with nothing but an academic record vs. someone who stepped out and took on some real responsibility at an early age and THEN showed up with the credentials to do some other job - you can guess who is getting the nod.

Am I a biased conservative? Maybe. I bought over 20 years of post-secondary education for my two kids, knowing full well that they could easily have out-earned their post-academic pay packet by simply going to work or into business after HS (neither are short on motivation, determination or smarts). What is really troubling, though, is seeing the inside of academia today. The hard sell of advanced degrees to kids with some expectation of economic benefit to the student is mostly bunk. On the other hand, those massive student loan debts represent a huge pile of cash into the pockets of the BUSINESS of education - which IMHO is not producing the kind of product that we think we are getting as a society.

Not all post-secondary education is truly wasted, but we really are not doing a good job of matching the vocation opportunities to the requisite and cost-effective ways of learning the required skills. I won't get into the real issue of how much post-secondary ed SHOULD be for vocational purposes, vs. the importance of a genuine, universal education.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

Petroleum engineering is one of the higher paid disciplines out there. Last I read they earn North of $150K---this with only a bachelor's degree.
 
Re: Young Adults Heading for the Prosperity of the Oil Fields Instead of Liberal Acad

Petroleum engineering is one of the higher paid disciplines out there. Last I read they earn North of $150K---this with only a bachelor's degree.
That is not starting wage by a long shot. To get that $$, you need to have some experience in an area that someone can make money from. Trades can actually make far more money (due to O/T) than a newly minted engineer (mostly because coming out of academia, they are far more of a liability than asset). Prove yourself to the industry, though, and $10k a month is easy, far more if you will work on remote sites/projects.
 
Back
Top Bottom