Blind faith? Lol. No my man. Blind faith is saying that God will protect you if you jump off a building. Science is telling you that when you hit the floor, the force of gravity will make sure you don't survive without broken bones as a minimum. Quit putting the two on the same standard. Still think science is blind faith? Jump off a building. See which one is more likely to happen. Broken bones or God saving you.
So you wish to impose your beliefs on others, but you don't want others to impose their beliefs on you?Yes of course I do.
Science is the process of ascertaining what reality is. You may not accept some scientific theories -- for example, I reject all the evidence that second-hand smoke causes lung cancer, as I do not believe the method used to reach the conclusion was sound.
However, if you have beliefs, for religious or other purposes, that you cannot die in a fire because you have on "magic underwear", or that humans lived at the same time as dinosaurs, you have no right -- in your capacity as my neighbor, representative or fellow voter -- to impose such nonsense on me. You cannot call such beliefs "science", and I should not be buying textbooks for schoolchildren via my tax dollars that teach such silliness. If you believe your gay child is possessed by the devil, that's sad. But if you try and torture that child to "convert" him or "cleanse" him, I'll be sending the cops along to arrest you for child abuse.
There is a difference between thinking abortion is wrong and thinking abortion does not exist, or is killing off a race of aliens.
So, my fundamentalist fellow Americans: feel free to embrace your fairy tales...but do not ask me to pay for them.
What say you?
Of COURSE they do.So you wish to impose your beliefs on others, but you don't want others to impose their beliefs on you?
Your last sentence is untrue. Curiosity is the hallmark of science it is how theories and ideas are made. We do not work on an assembly line. Flexibility is a vague term. If you are saying thinking outside the box, I must also disagree with you there. A scientist who practices good science MUST be able to be flexible. If his idea or experiment does not work he must be flexible enough to discard it and flexible enough to think of a new way to deal with it. If you are talking about flexibility within the scientific method or ethic then I will say that yes there is no flexibility here because these concepts are necessary for doing good science
Prove to me that there is nowhere else in the entire universe where the angle of incidence does not equal the angle of refraction and we can talk. I mean if science were so exact, why do so many scientists fight with each other? It is just a form of faith--faith in a methodology.
There's a difference between what is legal and what is right.
I agree, these whackadoodles can run for office and if elected, tard up my government. I should know,as Dennis Kucinich is my congresscritter, and he thinks he met Cleopatra in a past life and is ET.
Science is the process of ascertaining what reality is.
They do. But YEC specifically comes into conflict with measurement, which at that point it's reality (measurement) or fantasy (YEC). There can be a lot of YEC believers out there, it's just that none of that should find its way into law.
I don't want to get into a massive spiritual/religious debate on this. I could have said "The other side of the Veil" or something like that, if you'd have prefered.
I'm not asking anyone to pay for my faith. Hell, I don't even belong to an organized religious group, so I can't even say some clergyman who represents me is getting government support through tax exemptions or anything. I don't believe in teaching Creationism, my views on how the world came to be, or anything of the sort in public schools either. All I would like to see is the scientific community admit that they don't have an answer for everything and that they still DON'T KNOW quite a bit about almost everything. Until they are willing to do that, and to accept that not everyone is going to bow down before the altar of Science; I will not send any child of mine to a public school. I'm not asking you (or anyone else) to support my viewpoint financially. I'm just asking you not to stick your nose into what I would teach my own children, on my own time, in my own home.
You mad Tigger?
That just sounds so petty,bitter and jealous on your part.
One would think you are wishing harm and punishment on me and my family just because I took whatever opportunities that came my way,ran with it,and reaped the rewards and benefits because of it,and you didn't.
Neither of us really KNOWS what's in store for either of us on the OTHERSIDE.
But until that time comes,I'm going to continue to jump on any opportunity to make my businesses even greater successes.
But until that time comes,I am going to take every opportunity that comes my way to give me,my wife,my progeny and my descendents every advantage to make our lives better.
But until that time comes,I am going to do my best to overcome any obstacle that comes my,my wife,my progeny and my descendents way.
But until that time comes,I am going to enjoy the fruits of my labors.
But until that time comes,I am going to enjoy the love of my beautiful wife,my daughters,and my grandchildren.
Because I know that even if my business tank tomorrow,if my big fat bank account were to suddenly go "poof",if my big house and fancy car are taken away,I'll still be a very wealthy man because I know my wife,children and my grandchildren will still love and respect me.
Both me and Lena both started out with nothing,and in the end,we'll leave with nothing.
But in the meantime we Verthaines are a strong and hardy bunch ,and we'll survive one way or another,as we always have.
As a family.
And I'm in Chicago, where students have equally similar problems. But those problems do not reduce the importance of religion classes.
It's funny that you ask me why I think religion classes are necessary and then when I give you my answer, rather than actually addressing the points I made, you just dismiss them with a red herring, "oh, some kids can't read." Give me a break. Don't ask questions and waste my time if you aren't even going to bother to give a serious answer.
Scientists freely admit that they don't know everything.
What they deny is that anything but more science will answer the questions that remain.
Well then, what are the "issues" that you have to "pick a bone with a higher power".
And yet you still have a 'bone to pick" with the higher powers while I don't. I know nothing about what goes on the "Otherside" and there seems to be no "universal" agreement on that,or even if there is an "Otherside".Whenever an opportunity comes my way,all I have to go on is my instincts as to how it can benefit me,my family,and my employees and minimize any harm it may comes to others. I never worry about how it effects the Afterlife. That will happen if and when it happens.
Of course you are free to believe that. Me, I tie that rope to a grappling hook and climb higher,rather than use it to hang myself.
That of course is your decision and choice.
They don't do a very good job of teaching that in most of the schools.
That is where I will have to part company with them.
Because....................?
Because I prefer my "mythology" to theirs.
As I mentioned earlier, my youngest brother and his wife both have PhD's in genetic microbiology from Columbia University. They were both raised in religious homes and have chosen a new religion as adults.... Science. I have sat down and had some rather interesting discussions with them, and with others who share that mentality over time. I find it to be completely and totally hollow. As hollow as they find my beliefs to be.
Well, I can appreciate your sorrow at your brother's loss of his childhood faith, and it is true, few scientists are religious. However, I think you indict science for something it isn't responsible for -- each individual has a duty to manage his own inner life, Tigger.
As for "replacing science", nope, not an option.
It's not a matter of losing the childhood faith. If that were the issue, I'd be as guilty as they are, since I no longer associate myself with any organized religion. Not only do I find scientists to be non-religious, I find most of them to be non-spiritual as well. They exist in a world where if it cannot be measured, calculated, or seen through a microscope it cannot exist. I find that to be a terribly hollow way to go through life.
It is for some of us.
You are correct; atheism is probably at its highest among American scientists, as compared to Americans generally.
Will your faith lead you to a cure for cancer? Alternative energy source? Map of the Universe?
It is definitely at a very high rate, which I find to be somewhat disturbing.
My faith does not concern itself with such things. My cure for cancer would/will be .45ACP up under the chin with a rearward cant of the muzzle. I won't live long enough to have to worry about alternative energy sources, and any Map of the Universe will require many more years than I have left to even be seriously started.
Maybe three or four lifetimes from now it'll be an issue, but it won't be for quite a while.
Hopefully not. Either way, when the cure is discovered, a scientist will do the discovering and will have done so by employing the scientific method.
Good for him/her. Not that it really makes any difference to me. Even if they were to discover a cure tomorrow, it would have no impact on me personally.
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