Yet another Trump fib: we have highest crime rate in 47 years!

ataraxia · Feb 8, 2017

I guess these "Alternative facts" have proliferated so much that it's hard to take anything seriously anymore. But this was yet another "Trump fun fact" which came out recently:

"President Donald Trump promulgated the falsehood that the murder rate in the United States is at the highest it has been in 47 years during a meeting with the National Sheriff’s Association on Tuesday morning at the White House.

“Didn’t you know that?” Trump asked the group of sheriffs in front of reporters. “I’d say that in a speech and everybody was surprised because the press doesn’t like to tell it like it is. It wasn’t to their advantage to say that but the murder rate is the highest it’s been I guess from forty-five to forty-seven years.”"
Latest Trump News: Today in Trump, Feb. 8 - CBS News

I mean, seriously? "Oh NOOOO! We are all gonna die! Everything is falling apart! And only I know how to fix it!"

Meanwhile, back here in the real world, here is what is happening:

Kobie · Feb 8, 2017

This will be roundly commended by the Trump sycophants here, with any factual counters derided as "fake news."

Ikari · Feb 8, 2017

Alt-facts say highest in 47 years. Hell, highest ever! But Trump's going to make it better!

Hawkeye10 · Feb 8, 2017

Trump has been talking this way about crime from the jump, even though the stats dont back up the claim, nor does personal experience for me. For well over a year I have been waiting for some journalist to figure out why he is doing this, and to then write about it, but so far I have come across nothing. One of the main things that I need to know is how far back this claim goes with him, and if there is any evidence that Trump believes what he is saying.

haymarket · Feb 8, 2017

Trump lies and makes us crap worse than any politician I have ever seen or read about. Its simply disgusting. As I have written many times, the man is suffering from a severe personality disorder that could well border on mental illness imperiling the entire nation if not the world. His ability to lie as he does is the quality of a gutless sociopath who can rationalize anything as long as it benefits himself.

Winston · Feb 8, 2017

Trump is a liar. He lies on purpose, as well as reflexively. A couple weeks ago he said there were 2 murders in Chicago during a Barack Obama speech. Chicago PD confirmed that he was lying. His falsehoods are concocted to A. Give credit to his fantasy world and B. Make you think Obama's a bad guy/Muslims are coming for you/Immigrants are scary. He's just an old eccentric billionaire with a sh**** vocabulary.

ataraxia · Feb 8, 2017

haymarket said:
Trump lies and makes us crap worse than any politician I have ever seen or read about. Its simply disgusting. As I have written many times, the man is suffering from a severe personality disorder that could well border on mental illness imperiling the entire nation if not the world. His ability to lie as he does is the quality of a gutless sociopath who can rationalize anything as long as it benefits himself.

Well, not to get too technical here, but most mental health specialists agree that Trump is not a sociopath as much as just a narcissist. They are both personality disorders, and in the DSM manual of mental health disorders, get categorized as "category B" disorders. But there are some subtle differences.

The DSM V criteria for Narcissistic personality disorder:

"To diagnose narcissistic personality disorder, the following criteria must be met:
A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:
1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):
a. Identity: Excessive reference to others for self-definition and self-esteem regulation; exaggerated self-appraisal may be inflated or deflated, or vacillate between extremes; emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem.
b. Self-direction: Goal-setting is based on gaining approval from others; personal standards are unreasonably high in order to see oneself as exceptional, or too low based on a sense of entitlement; often unaware of own motivations.
AND
2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):
a. Empathy: Impaired ability to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others; excessively attuned to reactions of others, but only if perceived as relevant to self; over- or underestimate of own effect on others.
b. Intimacy: Relationships largely superficial and exist to serve self-esteem regulation; mutuality constrained by little genuine interest in others‟ experiences and predominance of a need for personal gain
B. Pathological personality traits in the following domain:
1. Antagonism, characterized by:
a. Grandiosity: Feelings of entitlement, either overt or covert
self-centeredness; firmly holding to the belief that one is better than others; condescending toward others.
b. Attention seeking: Excessive attempts to attract and be the focus of the attention of others; admiration seeking.
C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.
D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual‟s developmental stage or socio-cultural environment.
E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma)."
http://www.psi.uba.ar/academica/car...ica_tr_personalidad_psicosis/material/dsm.pdf

"It is, perhaps, no surprise that widely held impressions about Trump's narcissism are corroborated by the DSM criteria. The key question to ask is whether, having come so far despite his psychiatric disorder, Trump, or any other narcissistic personality can communicate well enough to be an effective leader of the free world.

There have been many narcissistic heads of state before but the clearest examples, such as Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, and Hugo Chavez, have been dictators.

Narcissists are difficult to deal with, whether as friends, or as politicians. They do not feel the need to build consensus, which is why most are screened out by democratic systems of government."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...rump-suffer-narcissistic-personality-disorder

tres borrachos · Feb 8, 2017

Trump is a pathological liar. This is very concerning.

Utility Man · Feb 8, 2017

More fear mongering from the right, no surprise there.

Morons.

:usflag2:

haymarket · Feb 8, 2017

ataraxia said:
Well, not to get too technical here, but most mental health specialists agree that Trump is not a sociopath as much as just a narcissist. They are both personality disorders, and in the DSM manual of mental health disorders, get categorized as "category B" disorders. But there are some subtle differences.

The DSM V criteria for Narcissistic personality disorder:

"To diagnose narcissistic personality disorder, the following criteria must be met:
A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:
1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):
a. Identity: Excessive reference to others for self-definition and self-esteem regulation; exaggerated self-appraisal may be inflated or deflated, or vacillate between extremes; emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem.
b. Self-direction: Goal-setting is based on gaining approval from others; personal standards are unreasonably high in order to see oneself as exceptional, or too low based on a sense of entitlement; often unaware of own motivations.
AND
2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):
a. Empathy: Impaired ability to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others; excessively attuned to reactions of others, but only if perceived as relevant to self; over- or underestimate of own effect on others.
b. Intimacy: Relationships largely superficial and exist to serve self-esteem regulation; mutuality constrained by little genuine interest in others‟ experiences and predominance of a need for personal gain
B. Pathological personality traits in the following domain:
1. Antagonism, characterized by:
a. Grandiosity: Feelings of entitlement, either overt or covert
self-centeredness; firmly holding to the belief that one is better than others; condescending toward others.
b. Attention seeking: Excessive attempts to attract and be the focus of the attention of others; admiration seeking.
C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.
D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual‟s developmental stage or socio-cultural environment.
E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma)."
http://www.psi.uba.ar/academica/car...ica_tr_personalidad_psicosis/material/dsm.pdf

"It is, perhaps, no surprise that widely held impressions about Trump's narcissism are corroborated by the DSM criteria. The key question to ask is whether, having come so far despite his psychiatric disorder, Trump, or any other narcissistic personality can communicate well enough to be an effective leader of the free world.

There have been many narcissistic heads of state before but the clearest examples, such as Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, and Hugo Chavez, have been dictators.

Narcissists are difficult to deal with, whether as friends, or as politicians. They do not feel the need to build consensus, which is why most are screened out by democratic systems of government."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...rump-suffer-narcissistic-personality-disorder

Thank you for that insightful information. It is appreciated.

The idea that Trump has the same mental problems that Castro, Saddam Hussein and Chavez did - is information that should scare the nation.

I have no doubt that sooner or later - Trumps own disorder will cause his own downfall. I just hope he does not damage the nation too badly in the process.

Excon · Feb 8, 2017

Winston said:
... Chicago PD confirmed that he was lying.

iLOL
No. They confirmed they didn't know of any.

Winston · Feb 8, 2017

Excon said:
iLOL
No. They confirmed they didn't know of any.

Chicago PD says: No murders
Trump says: 2 murders

Trump is either the most uninformed person or most dishonest person in the country.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mr Person · Feb 8, 2017

Hawkeye10 said:
Trump has been talking this way about crime from the jump, even though the stats dont back up the claim, nor does personal experience for me. For well over a year I have been waiting for some journalist to figure out why he is doing this, and to then write about it, but so far I have come across nothing. One of the main things that I need to know is how far back this claim goes with him, and if there is any evidence that Trump believes what he is saying.

You should look further than this subject. Trump alternately lies and just plain makes **** up whenever he thinks it benefits him in some way (that is, assuming it isn't literally compulsive). This is not some outlier. This is just what he does. This is why "the left" was allegedly so "scared" of him.

Excon · Feb 8, 2017

Winston said:
Chicago PD says: No murders
Trump says: 2 murders

Trump is either the most uninformed person or most dishonest person in the country.

I see you do not understand.
This is specifically about what the PD said.

The PD's statement is an indication that they do not know of any. That does not mean no murders took place.

Winston · Feb 8, 2017

Excon said:
I see you do not understand.
This is specifically about what the PD said.

The PD's statement is an indication that they do not know of any. That does not mean no murders took place.

Oh, I understand. I understand that Trump can lie if it suits him and his supporters will make excuses for him.

If I'm late to work today is it okay for me to say, sorry there were 2 accidents on the highway? Then when they check with PD, and PD says, "not that we know of." I say, "well they didn't say there weren't".

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Excon · Feb 8, 2017

Winston said:
Oh, I understand. I understand that Trump can lie if it suits him and his supporters will make excuses for him.

If I'm late to work today is it okay for me to say, sorry there were 2 accidents on the highway? Then when they check with PD, and PD says, "not that we know of." I say, "well they didn't say there weren't".

So you again show you do not understand.
Figures. :shrug:

Eric7216 · Feb 8, 2017

Unfortunate when Trumps says stuff like this when he could make a similar point with the truth. My guess is that he got confused by a different fact: 2015 saw the largest increase in the murder rate in 50 years, not the highest rate in 50 years. Just the largest increase over the previous year.

Murders are increasing in the US. We had a 10.8% increase in 2015, nationally, followed by c. 14% increase in 2016 in the 30 largest cities. The national totals won't come out until c. Sept, 2017 for 2016.
Trump correctly cites rising crime rates in cities - CNNPolitics.com
Crime in 2016: Updated Analysis | Brennan Center for Justice
https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2015-crime-statistics

Hawkeye10 · Feb 8, 2017

Mr Person said:
You should look further than this subject. Trump alternately lies and just plain makes **** up whenever he thinks it benefits him in some way (that is, assuming it isn't literally compulsive). This is not some outlier. This is just what he does. This is why "the left" was allegedly so "scared" of him.

This crime thing is different in my opinion, The rest of what Trump says I feel like I can usually understand what he is talking about and why he is doing it, but not here. However, I am well aware that "fear-up" has been the #1 argument from those in power and who are accumulating more power for going on 30 years. It works, the masses are shallow and not too bright, and they feel that civilization is failing, constantly we are thus willing to give everything away to those who promise safety in return.

I hope this is not as simple as that.

cuban smokes · Feb 8, 2017

ataraxia said:
Well, not to get too technical here, but most mental health specialists agree that Trump is not a sociopath as much as just a narcissist. They are both personality disorders, and in the DSM manual of mental health disorders, get categorized as "category B" disorders. But there are some subtle differences.

The DSM V criteria for Narcissistic personality disorder:

"To diagnose narcissistic personality disorder, the following criteria must be met:
A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:
1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):
a. Identity: Excessive reference to others for self-definition and self-esteem regulation; exaggerated self-appraisal may be inflated or deflated, or vacillate between extremes; emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem.
b. Self-direction: Goal-setting is based on gaining approval from others; personal standards are unreasonably high in order to see oneself as exceptional, or too low based on a sense of entitlement; often unaware of own motivations.
AND
2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):
a. Empathy: Impaired ability to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others; excessively attuned to reactions of others, but only if perceived as relevant to self; over- or underestimate of own effect on others.
b. Intimacy: Relationships largely superficial and exist to serve self-esteem regulation; mutuality constrained by little genuine interest in others‟ experiences and predominance of a need for personal gain
B. Pathological personality traits in the following domain:
1. Antagonism, characterized by:
a. Grandiosity: Feelings of entitlement, either overt or covert
self-centeredness; firmly holding to the belief that one is better than others; condescending toward others.
b. Attention seeking: Excessive attempts to attract and be the focus of the attention of others; admiration seeking.
C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.
D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual‟s developmental stage or socio-cultural environment.
E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma)."
http://www.psi.uba.ar/academica/car...ica_tr_personalidad_psicosis/material/dsm.pdf

"It is, perhaps, no surprise that widely held impressions about Trump's narcissism are corroborated by the DSM criteria. The key question to ask is whether, having come so far despite his psychiatric disorder, Trump, or any other narcissistic personality can communicate well enough to be an effective leader of the free world.

There have been many narcissistic heads of state before but the clearest examples, such as Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, and Hugo Chavez, have been dictators.

Narcissists are difficult to deal with, whether as friends, or as politicians. They do not feel the need to build consensus, which is why most are screened out by democratic systems of government."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...rump-suffer-narcissistic-personality-disorder

As far as accounting to how anyone such as Trump could potentially obtain one of the most important offices of duty on planet Earth, I can understand that some voters are really not fit to discern the mental maladies of candidates.
To a few folks I think it was pretty obvious that Trump had mental issues previous to his candidacy.
I believe it is quite plain for anyone to see, even to the most casual observer, that President Trump suffers from at a minimum at least one serious mental disorder.
I wonder how long it will take for the planet to become engulfed within a "nuclear winter?"
We are already in a political Hell ........

Lord Tammerlain · Feb 8, 2017

Excon said:
I see you do not understand.
This is specifically about what the PD said.

The PD's statement is an indication that they do not know of any. That does not mean no murders took place.

So the Chicago PD does not know of any murders but Trump does. Perhaps Trump should let the Chicago PD know of the specifics of the murders as Trump seems to be the only official who knows about them

Visbek · Feb 8, 2017

Eric7216 said:
Unfortunate when Trumps says stuff like this when he could make a similar point with the truth. My guess is that he got confused by a different fact: 2015 saw the largest increase in the murder rate in 50 years, not the highest rate in 50 years. Just the largest increase over the previous year.

The thing is, those are two VERY different points.

The reality is that violent crime rates are HALF their peak in the early 90s. The trend has also been down almost every year since 1991. And when crime rates are relatively low, "percent increases" are easily misunderstood.

For example, there were roughly 16,000 homicides in the US in 2014. A 10% increase over that is 1,600 homicides.

The peak year for homicides was 1991, with 24,000 homicides -- when the population was at least 50 million fewer Americans! (253m vs 318m) An increase of 1,600 homicides in 1991 would only have been a 6% increase.

People already have serious issues with misperceptions of crime. It really doesn't help when our own President is, I hate to say it, too much of a dumbass to get a critical statistic correct. In fact, I'd say he has a responsibility to get such a critical and basic statistic correct.

Excon · Feb 8, 2017

Lord Tammerlain said:
So the Chicago PD does not know of any murders but Trump does. Perhaps Trump should let the Chicago PD know of the specifics of the murders as Trump seems to be the only official who knows about them

I see you don't get it either even though it was clearly stated.

Again.

This is specifically about what the PD said.

Which has nothing to do with me agreeing or disagreeing with what you just said in regards to Trump's statement.

Capiche?

Yet another Trump fib: we have highest crime rate in 47 years!

ataraxia

Kobie

Ikari

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man

haymarket

Winston

the enemy within

ataraxia

tres borrachos

HoHoHo

Utility Man

Sidewalk Inspector

haymarket

Excon

Winston

the enemy within

Mr Person

A Little Bitter

Excon

Winston

the enemy within

Excon

Eric7216

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man

cuban smokes

Lord Tammerlain

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

Excon

Yet another Trump fib: we have highest crime rate in 47 years!

Buttermilk Man

the enemy within

HoHoHo

Sidewalk Inspector

the enemy within

A Little Bitter

the enemy within

Buttermilk Man

Stuck In The Circle

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