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Would you then obey?

Would you then obey?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No

    Votes: 4 66.7%

  • I already believe and obey

    Votes: 2 33.3%

  • I already believe, but don't obey

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    6
V

Valery

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I suspect few, it any, will dare answer this honestly. I expect the usual snark comments and personal attacks while avoiding the actual topic like it was burning coal, but let's give it a chance.

If it was proven to you that God exists (here 'proven to you', seeing as it is already proven, means proven by any means that would have led you to accept that God exists) and He commanded you clearly regarding your life, would you obey Him and change your life the way He commanded you?

No specification of the consequences of obeying or disobeying except the general idea that obeying would get you reward and disobeying would get you punishment.
 
Almost nobody that believes obeys.
 
Valery said:
I suspect few, it any, will dare answer this honestly. I expect the usual snark comments and personal attacks while avoiding the actual topic like it was burning coal, but let's give it a chance.

If it was proven to you that God exists (here 'proven to you', seeing as it is already proven, means proven by any means that would have led you to accept that God exists) and He commanded you clearly regarding your life, would you obey Him and change your life the way He commanded you?

No specification of the consequences of obeying or disobeying except the general idea that obeying would get you reward and disobeying would get you punishment.
Click to expand...
Depends on what he commanded me to do. If he asks me to divorce my same-sex spouse, he's an evil God and can go f*** himself.
 
Luce said:
Almost nobody that believes obeys.
Click to expand...
And nobody that doesn't believe obeys either. How silly. Humans have free will, humans are not divine, they make mistakes. Humans are concerned with so many things and their wisdom is not infallible. Bottom line, we all make mistakes, we all sometimes have poor judgement (some much more than others). God allows for mistakes, sins, and sent his son to die to pay that debt. He didn't think there would be a sudden end to sin. Repenting in good faith is a necessity of those sins, asking forgiveness and making a true attempt to live by the word of God. It's really not that hard to understand, it is sometimes difficult to resist temptation.
 
It depends. I can't answer yes or no, because context matters. If god proved himself to me and started commanding me to murder babies or beat slaves, no. If god told me to treat my fellow humans with basic concepts like dignity and respect, then I would obey him by continuing to do so.
 
ASHES said:
It depends. I can't answer yes or no, because context matters. If god proved himself to me and started commanding me to murder babies or beat slaves, no. If god told me to treat my fellow humans with basic concepts like dignity and respect, then I would obey him by continuing to do so.
Click to expand...
I would simply do as I have always done which is follow my moral compass. If God wants that or doesnt why would I care if there are no consequences?
 
ASHES said:
If god proved himself to me and started commanding me to murder babies
Click to expand...
A lot of atheists and theists are on that already. Was it 41 million abortions in the world last year?
 
Valery said:
A lot of atheists and theists are on that already. Was it 41 million abortions in the world last year?
Click to expand...
I don't perform abortions.
 
ASHES said:
I don't perform abortions.
Click to expand...
If you support them you're in the wrong. However, that's not the topic — I just thought when you said murdering babies you probably thought it was something really absurd when it's now called just a medical procedure, freedom and a "choice".
 
Valery said:
If you support them you're in the wrong. However, that's not the topic — I just thought when you said murdering babies you probably thought it was something really absurd when it's now called just a medical procedure, freedom and a "choice".
Click to expand...
Let's go the other way.

God commands you personally to give all your money to planned parenthood and to organize pro choice rallies?


Do you obey the word of God?
 
Valery said:
If you support them you're in the wrong. However, that's not the topic — I just thought when you said murdering babies you probably thought it was something really absurd when it's now called just a medical procedure, freedom and a "choice".
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about abortion, that's a completely different question. I'm talking about bashing literal babies in the head with rocks, or whatever the proper biblical method for baby murder is.
 
if one God is proved to exist, then why not many? I would shop around for a god which I could obey and worship accordingly. It it were proven that there was only one God, and that God's rule was oppressive, then I would seriously explore deicide as an option. If your going to suffer an eternity of torment, then you might as well make the crime match the punishment.

Cheers and be well.
EVILroddy.
 
vegas giants said:
Let's go the other way.

God commands you personally to give all your money to planned parenthood and to organize pro choice rallies?


Do you obey the word of God?
Click to expand...
If God commanded me, yes. The reason I'm against abortion is because God has prohibited it to be done without a legitimate reason.
 
Valery said:
If God commanded me, yes. The reason I'm against abortion is because God has prohibited it to be done without a legitimate reason.
Click to expand...
My god is totally cool with it
 
Valery said:
I suspect few, it any, will dare answer this honestly. I expect the usual snark comments and personal attacks while avoiding the actual topic like it was burning coal, but let's give it a chance.

If it was proven to you that God exists (here 'proven to you', seeing as it is already proven, means proven by any means that would have led you to accept that God exists) and He commanded you clearly regarding your life, would you obey Him and change your life the way He commanded you?

No specification of the consequences of obeying or disobeying except the general idea that obeying would get you reward and disobeying would get you punishment.
Click to expand...
I strive to obey but due to the imperfect flesh, I often fail...God is merciful...
 
Valery said:
If it was proven to you that God exists (here 'proven to you', seeing as it is already proven, means proven by any means that would have led you to accept that God exists) and He commanded you clearly regarding your life, would you obey Him and change your life the way He commanded you?
Click to expand...
Which deity, exactly? There are so many to choose from.

How do I know what moral principles the deity is using? How certain am I that they are right?

What if the deity commands me, as a moral duty, to murder my child?

What if it was proven to you that your preferred religion was 100% dead wrong, and that something else (perhaps Theravada Buddhism) was correct? Would you give up your religion to become a Buddhist monk, and follow the Eightfold Path?

What if it was proven to you that there are no deities at all? Would you then start reading Rawls and Parfit to try and figure out proper moral principles?


Anyway. The "Euthyphro Dilemma" is an old problem in Western ethics. To paraphrase Leibniz: Is something good and just because God wills it? Or does God will it because it is good and just?

If it is the former (the deity declares that X is moral), then ultimately ethics are arbitrary, and we're only following those rules for non-ethical reasons -- e.g. fear of punishment, promise of reward.

If it is the latter (the deity does not determine moral principles), then we can cut the deity out of the equation altogether. It implies that the deity is not the fundamental arbiter of reality; something else is generating universal moral principles. Aside from demoting the deity, this opens the possibility that the deity is not acting in good faith. After all, we can already look at the world, and see all sorts of suffering and death that the deity could stop. Why do I have a moral obligation to stop the suffering of others, when a deity that could restructure all of existence to remove all that suffering and death fails to do so?


To put this another way: You have to be a bit simplistic to imagine that the existence of a deity magically resolves all moral quandaries, including whether or not to follow specific commands.
 
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