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Would you support such a law?

Is the Welfare State described a good idea for USA?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 7 13.5%

  • Somewhat.

    Votes: 12 23.1%

  • No.

    Votes: 33 63.5%
  • Total voters
    52
S

SCitizen

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If you do not like the idea of Welfare State do not blame me -- the legislature of Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark had decades of experience. The Welfare Amendment would declare that every citizen has a right to

-- Housing -- at least a room in a dormitory
-- Reasonable food -- including Kosher and Halal and Greek Orthodox
-- Reasonable medical care including psychological therapy
-- Personal spending money of $300/month

Of course if someone still commits a crime they should be jailed, but in much better conditions then in modern USA.
 

how many threads are you going to start up here that almost immediately become a fluffing of Scandinavian welfare-socialism

how about an amendment that says "your existence is not grounds for other people to be taxed to support you"?
 
TurtleDude said:
how many threads are you going to start up here that almost immediately become a fluffing of Scandinavian welfare-socialism
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I should have been a journalist/writer. Sorry.
 
SCitizen said:
Extremely cruel.
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Tell me SCitizen. I may choose to support you if you could not support yourself. But please explain--I don't want links and I don't want a bunch of junk copied and pasted please--unless I accepted responsibility for you by marrying you or giving birth to you or adopting you or employing you, please put into your own words what entitles you to anything I have? What entitles you to have some authority take what I have and give it to you?
 

We already provide housing and food. Medical care as well. As to the spending money, our system must supply that in one way or another since welfare recipients have flat screens, clothing and furniture.

Jail? Please support your statement that our hails have Dorsey conditions than most other countries. Personally, I'm in no mood to insist we have the BEST. They're adequate. Don't like 'em? Don't break the ****ing law.
 
There are so many points that can be made both for and against this, but mostly against...that it would take a blog to address them all.

Suffice it to say, welfare states depend on those who work to support those who don't...or as with Norway, a resource that brings in enough wealth that working citizens don't have to carry the burden.

No one on either side (aside from a few drug addicts) remains content with such a system for very long.
 
AlbqOwl said:
What entitles you to have some authority take what I have and give it to you?
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Sadly nothing. But in Scandinavia everyone has to pay taxes to support people with disabilities.
 
MaggieD said:
Jail? Please support your statement that our hails have Dorsey conditions than most other countries. Personally, I'm in no mood to insist we have the BEST. They're adequate.
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Scandinavian prisons are much better. Still due to the Welfare State the crime rates there are low.
 
I'm not sold on the personal spending money part just yet, but I do believe people should be entitled to shelter, food, and healthcare. I would also include education.
 
BrewerBob said:
I'm not sold on the personal spending money part just yet, but I do believe people should be entitled to shelter, food, and healthcare. I would also include education.
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Thank you. I do not mean lots of personal money -- just like $250/month for personal expenses.
 
SCitizen said:
Sadly nothing. But in Scandinavia everyone has to pay taxes to support people with disabilities.
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You didn't start out your OP referring to people with disabilities. You implied that all citizens, whoever or whatever they are, are entitled to receive minimum housing, food, healthcare, income, etc. So let's leave the disabled out of it for now and keep the focus on everybody.

What moral justification is there for you to have to pay taxes out of what wealth you honorably earn or acquire in order to furnish me housing, food, healthcare, income?
 
SCitizen said:
Extremely cruel.
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It's cruel to say that working people aren't required to support you?

I am forever thankful that when I was a drunk I had to occasionally sober up enough to do some day labor to eat and buy another bottle. If someone had told me that working people owed me a place to live, food to eat, healthcare, and cash money to buy my booze, I might still be a drunk.
 
Like it or not, many people are not physically or mentally capable of self sufficiency. IQs below 90, disabled, elderly, sick etc. That's just the reality of diversity within any population. A society is no stronger than it's weakest link. A measure of a society's sophistication is how well it treats it's weak and it's poor.
 

The countries you mention do have experience, however, as many other countries, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, Soviet Union, etc, have demonstrated, such socialistic ideals do not work with larger populations. They have been existing only because they sell enough natural resources to support their current populations. Should they resources dry up or be replaced, then those governments would fail miserably.

You wish to enslave the producers and workers to those who contribute nothing but a resource drain. It would be much better to end such nonsense and allow each adult person to live freely and accept the consequences of their choices, both good and bad. Even if it means their death. No Government or set of laws can totally protect the lazy and stupid from suffering the consequences of the laziness and stupidity. Death is the only cure for stupid.

Such BS doesn't take into account a basic law of physics and existence, you cannot get more out of a system that what is put into it. All resources are limited, to say that everyone "is entitled" to them equally when they do not contribute equally is utter nonsense.
 
SCitizen said:
Sadly nothing. But in Scandinavia everyone has to pay taxes to support people with disabilities.
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As do we in the U.S. but you weren't talking about the disabled before. You were talking about everyone who doesn't want to work. If I' eighteen, healthy, a drunk, and don't want to work, you said I deserve a place to live, to be fed, medical care, and cash to buy booze. But, a question. Does my place to live include cable television?
 
SCitizen said:
Thank you. I do not mean lots of personal money -- just like $250/month for personal expenses.
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How many personal expenses could you possibly have if you housing, food, and medical care is free? Not to mention education.
 
BrewerBob said:
I'm not sold on the personal spending money part just yet, but I do believe people should be entitled to shelter, food, and healthcare. I would also include education.
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I am more of a Darwinist in this regard. I think people are entitled to exactly nothing unless they earn it. If they don't wish to earn their keep, they can crawl off and die for all I care. They still serve society by being an example of what not to do. The only people who shouldn't have to work for their keep are those that truly cannot care for themselves, either because of physically or mentally. The rest should work. Picking up garbage menial work office work whatever but they work if they want a meal. My children are required to earn their keep, and they manage just fine. A full grown adult can do the same.
 
Van Basten said:
Wanting a welfare state makes you a socialist now? Lmao, the propaganda is still as effective as ever!
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I was attacking the welfare socialist left.
 
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