Would you support such a law?

[Van Basten]

I was attacking the welfare socialist left.

Attacking the welfare state in general and hilariously pulling socialism into this, what a play.

 

[TurtleDude]

Attacking the welfare state in general and hilariously pulling socialism into this, what a play.

you are unaware of the commonly used term "welfare-socialism" or welfare-socialist?

 

[Patrickt]

The parasitic faux charity of the welfare socialist left is disgusting

Come on. They are very generous and charitable as long as it's with your money.

 

[TurtleDude]

Come on. They are very generous and charitable as long as it's with your money.

they remind me of that cretinous prince in Shrek as he orders his soldiers to find him the princess and fight off the dragon

"Many of you may die but that is a price I AM willing to pay

 

[Patrickt]

Thank you. I do not mean lots of personal money -- just like $250/month for personal expenses.

First it was welfare at will for everyone then you shifted to disabled. First it was $300 a month and now you're down to $250. Once your shelter, food, medical care is covered and liquor is your number one priority, $300 a month will go a long way. Mad Dog or Three-Buck Chuck will keep you drunk for a month on $300.

I knew a man who was born with mental and physical disabilities. When I first met him he was living, more or less, in a nursing home full of dying people and the government paid the bill. He was miserable. Twenty years later he was in a government apartment building for people with disabilities like him. They had little apartments, small kitchens and most had nothing that could start a fire in the kitchen. A case worker from welfare visited two or three times a week and helped with paying bills and buying groceries. I was happy to pay for that.

Then there was Chuck. He worked a two-acre garden all day but has SSI. One day I asked him what his disability was since he clearly could do hard labor. "I have a permanent emotional disability." I looked confused and he grinned and said, "I don't like to work. A psychologist signed me up for SSI and got my first two monthly checks. I was not proud of that.

No, I don't think welfare-on-demand is a good thing to do. It is for liberals who want to keep the poor in poverty for life, keep the kids of poor people uneducated, and keep the poor people living in big Democrat city ghettos.

 

[Master PO]

my take on this:

there is no constututional power for the federal government to take care of people because powers concerning the people, they are state powers....federalist 45

the states can create social programs because they do have the power, however in order to that. they would have to use tax money which is indirectly taxed, like commerce taxes.

for government to tax people directly under the threat of force, such as income tax, and transfer it to another citizen violates the right of property.

 

[Peter King]

1. there is no political will to do it
2. it is a bit too late I think, European countries have been paying into their systems for decades, starting from scratch will cost way too much
3. what can you do with 300 dollars a month, that would be barely enough for food.

 

[Grand Mal]

Tell me SCitizen. I may choose to support you if you could not support yourself. But please explain--I don't want links and I don't want a bunch of junk copied and pasted please--unless I accepted responsibility for you by marrying you or giving birth to you or adopting you or employing you, please put into your own words what entitles you to anything I have? What entitles you to have some authority take what I have and give it to you?

In France there's a cave, well, more of a pit, that's a trove of Neanderthal bones. Hundreds of whole skeletons of people of all ages. Presumably they were tossed into the pit like a form of burial. One of the skeletons found there was an adult male who'd suffered terrible injuries- his leg was so badly broken he couldn't have walked, one arm was off below the elbow and his jaws were badly broken. Thing is, all those injuries had healed before he died. Those people, who literally lived hand-to-mouth and had no surplus to share, took care of that man, fed him and helped him move with the clan.
It's what being a member of a community is about. You want a place beside the fire and the safety in numbers, you contribute some of the berries you picked today.

 

[AlbqOwl]

In France there's a cave, well, more of a pit, that's a trove of Neanderthal bones. Hundreds of whole skeletons of people of all ages. Presumably they were tossed into the pit like a form of burial. One of the skeletons found there was an adult male who'd suffered terrible injuries- his leg was so badly broken he couldn't have walked, one arm was off below the elbow and his jaws were badly broken. Thing is, all those injuries had healed before he died. Those people, who literally lived hand-to-mouth and had no surplus to share, took care of that man, fed him and helped him move with the clan.
It's what being a member of a community is about. You want a place beside the fire and the safety in numbers, you contribute some of the berries you picked today.

I have no quarrel with this. I believe a moral society VOLUNTARILY takes care of the truly helpless. But a moral society does not force people into involuntary servitude and when that happens, a new immorality is in force.

 

[DA60]

If you do not like the idea of Welfare State do not blame me -- the legislature of Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark had decades of experience. The Welfare Amendment would declare that every citizen has a right to

-- Housing -- at least a room in a dormitory

at least a cot and a locker for storage in a clean, dry, safe environment.

-- Reasonable food -- including Kosher and Halal and Greek Orthodox

yes, but I could care less about the God Club extras. They won't eat without them? Then starve to death...your choice.

-- Reasonable medical care including psychological therapy

Agreed, though psychological for anything more then severe problems is too much imo.

-- Personal spending money of $300/month

I would say a free public transit pass, free wifi and $100/month is fine (and even that might be a tad too much).

Of course if someone still commits a crime they should be jailed, but in much better conditions then in modern USA.

All inmates in every prison should ALWAYS be in solitary. I have served time (very short term - been pardoned) and the absolute WORST thing to do to inmates is to put them with other inmates. They don't learn rehabilitation - they learn how to be better criminals.


I generally agree with the OP - though I would tone it down a tad.

 

[Grand Mal]

I have no quarrel with this. I believe a moral society VOLUNTARILY takes care of the truly helpless. But a moral society does not force people into involuntary servitude and when that happens, a new immorality is in force.

If you don't contribute some of the berries you picked today, you don't get to sit by the fire and you don't get the protection of the clan. Simple.

 

[Master PO]

We Should Be Thankful for Private Property - Reason.com

The pilgrims almost starved themselves to death with their experiment in communal ownership.

 

[Master PO]

If you don't contribute some of the berries you picked today, you don't get to sit by the fire and you don't get the protection of the clan. Simple.

that only works when everyone picks berries equally, not, i picked 300 berries and others picked 50 between them

 

[Grand Mal]

that only works when everyone picks berries equally, not, i picked 300 berries and others picked 50 between them

Actually, I don't think it was a problem when the berries were just being picked. I think the problems started when they began to be planted.

 

[AlbqOwl]

If you don't contribute some of the berries you picked today, you don't get to sit by the fire and you don't get the protection of the clan. Simple.

Yes, those who share the fire should help gather the firewood or contribute in other ways if they can etc. But we aren't talking about what we benefit from. We are talking about one person being forced into involuntary servitude to another.

 

[Master PO]

Actually, I don't think it was a problem when the berries were just being picked. I think the problems started when they began to be planted.

because people are self serving, its human nature in man, man will to as little to nothing if he is able to get a share.

people will only bear the burden of other people for a short time as noted by my link to the pilgrims.



from my link.....

The Pilgrims started out with communal property rules. When they first settled at Plymouth, they were told: "Share everything, share the work, and we'll share the harvest."

The colony's contract said their new settlement was to be a "common." Everyone was to receive necessities out of the common stock. There was to be little individual property.

That wasn't the only thing about the Plymouth Colony that sounds like it was from Karl Marx: Its labor was to be organized according to the different capabilities of the settlers. People would produce according to their abilities and consume according to their needs. That sure sounds fair.

They nearly starved and created what economists call the "tragedy of the commons."

If people can access the same stuff by working less, they will. Plymouth settlers faked illness instead of working the common property. The harvest was meager, and for two years, there was famine. But then, after the colony's governor, William Bradford, wrote that they should "set corn every man for his own particular," they dropped the commons idea. He assigned to every family a parcel of land to treat as its own.

 

[Grand Mal]

because people are self serving, its human nature in man, man will to as little to nothing if he is able to get a share.

people will only bear the burden of other people for a short time as noted by my link to the pilgrims.



from my link.....

The Pilgrims started out with communal property rules. When they first settled at Plymouth, they were told: "Share everything, share the work, and we'll share the harvest."

The colony's contract said their new settlement was to be a "common." Everyone was to receive necessities out of the common stock. There was to be little individual property.

That wasn't the only thing about the Plymouth Colony that sounds like it was from Karl Marx: Its labor was to be organized according to the different capabilities of the settlers. People would produce according to their abilities and consume according to their needs. That sure sounds fair.

They nearly starved and created what economists call the "tragedy of the commons."

If people can access the same stuff by working less, they will. Plymouth settlers faked illness instead of working the common property. The harvest was meager, and for two years, there was famine. But then, after the colony's governor, William Bradford, wrote that they should "set corn every man for his own particular," they dropped the commons idea. He assigned to every family a parcel of land to treat as its own.

I blame agriculture. That's when primitive people started to become modern, that's when surpluses could be produced and about all of the problems people have experienced since stem from the question, "Who will control the surplus?" That's how technology was started, agriculture.
I go so far as to say that this is the point of the Biblical creation myth. Adam and Eve lived hand-to-mouth, in Eden, until they disobeyed God and were cast out, having to become agriculturalists. Cain was a planter, Able a herder, we know how that developed. All our problems began when we started planting and herding.
But, this is all just mental gymnastics, a diversion like a crossword puzzle. We is what we is, and are where we are.

 

[Master PO]

I blame agriculture. That's when primitive people started to become modern, that's when surpluses could be produced and about all of the problems people have experienced since stem from the question, "Who will control the surplus?" That's how technology was started, agriculture.
I go so far as to say that this is the point of the Biblical creation myth. Adam and Eve lived hand-to-mouth, in Eden, until they disobeyed God and were cast out, having to become agriculturalists. Cain was a planter, Able a herder, we know how that developed. All our problems began when we started planting and herding.
But, this is all just mental gymnastics, a diversion like a crossword puzzle. We is what we is, and are where we are.

people are self serving, its part of being human and if a person can receive the same share than another person by doing less they will do it.

this is why the early pilgrims failed.

when you have people exercising their liberty to work as hard as they can, for their own betterment they will achieve

 

[earthworm]

Scandinavian prisons are much better. Still due to the Welfare State the crime rates there are low.

I feel that the Scandinavians are more socially advanced than we are ..they have been around for a considerably longer time .. But they do not have the problems that we do , specifically ''diversity'' .

 

[RetiredUSN]

Sadly nothing. But in Scandinavia everyone has to pay taxes to support people with disabilities.

So dos the USA.

 

[Groogrux]

Absolutely not. You want what I have? Get your *** a job.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

I have no quarrel with this. I believe a moral society VOLUNTARILY takes care of the truly helpless. But a moral society does not force people into involuntary servitude and when that happens, a new immorality is in force.

A moral society would not let people work long hours and still not even earn enough to support themselves with safe shelter and nutritious food.

 

[SDET]

A moral society would not let people work long hours and still not even earn enough to support themselves with safe shelter and nutritious food.

That sounds like a totalitarian regime where people are not allowed to take risks. Wages provide information regarding what skills to pursue or not. A hard working buggy whip maker just doesn't command a high pay rate. Silver Dollar City or Plymouth Plantation doesn't have large workforce.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

That sounds like a totalitarian regime where people are not allowed to take risks. Wages provide information regarding what skills to pursue or not. A hard working buggy whip maker just doesn't command a high pay rate. Silver Dollar City or Plymouth Plantation doesn't have large workforce.

In order to take a risk, you have to have some capital to risk in the first place. Or don't you know how a free market works?

But hey, if you want to live in an immoral country, the world is full of of those, too. Haiti, Nigeria, Tajikistan, ...

 

[AlbqOwl]

A moral society would not let people work long hours and still not even earn enough to support themselves with safe shelter and nutritious food.

A moral society allows people liberty to organize themselves into a society that is best for them and allows the individual as much liberty as possible--short of violating the rights and well being of others--to do what is best for that individual. A moral society does not force people into involuntary servitude to others.