Would you support gun control if someone close to YOU died in a mass shooting?

[DebateChallenge]

ghost guns that shoot 30 rounds a second!! out of 30 caliber magazines!

I think what you mean is 30 caliber magazine clip!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmFEv6BHM0

 

[TurtleDude]

I think what you mean is 30 caliber magazine clip!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmFEv6BHM0

He kept interchanging the terms in his longer interview. this is why i have zero respect for anti gun politicians. they either lie out their ass or are so incredibly ignorant you have to laugh at them.

 

[DebateChallenge]

He kept interchanging the terms in his longer interview. this is why i have zero respect for anti gun politicians. they either lie out their ass or are so incredibly ignorant you have to laugh at them.

Tell me about it. There was this anti gun politician from Colorado I believe who thought that magazines were disposable.

 

[TurtleDude]

Tell me about it. There was this anti gun politician from Colorado I believe who thought that magazines were disposable.

There have been a few. I will find it. she thought if they banned 30 round magazines, once you used one you couldn't use it again. I wonder if objective Americans who are not on either side of this believe people that ignorant and that stupid should be passing laws about subjects they are so stupid about

 

[vegas giants]

No, but it is a part of the USA nonetheless, an area of land known as a district. And it is less gun friendly than any of the states. And it is very democratic. And there is lots of violent crime in D.C.

It's not a state. But why are the next ten....more really....all republican states

 

[Rucker61]

There have been a few. I will find it. she thought if they banned 30 round magazines, once you used one you couldn't use it again. I wonder if objective Americans who are not on either side of this believe people that ignorant and that stupid should be passing laws about subjects they are so stupid about

She has an excuse. She'd only been trying to ban them in Congress for fifteen years. That's not nearly enough time to learn how the very thing you're trying to ban works, is it?

 

[Maccabee]

It's not a state. But why are the next ten....more really....all republican states

Could be many things. It coukd be that the republican states have a higher suicide rate or it coukd be that they have a smaller population thus skewing the stats. You have to prove that it's mainly due to gun laws.

 

[vegas giants]

Could be many things. It coukd be that the republican states have a higher suicide rate or it coukd be that they have a smaller population thus skewing the stats. You have to prove that it's mainly due to gun laws.

I don't have to prove anything for a law.

 

[gfm7175]

Could be many things. It coukd be that the republican states have a higher suicide rate or it coukd be that they have a smaller population thus skewing the stats. You have to prove that it's mainly due to gun laws.

He's incapable of 2nd level thinking and digging into the stats... For example, Wyoming is one of the top 10 states that he's talking about (might even be the highest?) ... But if you dig into the statistics a bit, you will find that Wyoming has one of the lowest homicide rates in the country, but has (I think the highest?) suicide rate. He wants to oversimplify everything, which leads him to false conclusions...

 

[gfm7175]

I don't have to prove anything for a law.

No you don't, but would it be an effective law (achieving it's intended purpose) if it wasn't based on anything statistical/factual?

 

[vegas giants]

No you don't, but would it be an effective law (achieving it's intended purpose) if it wasn't based on anything statistical/factual?

Like the tax cut? Like a thousand other laws? There is plenty of evidence that gun control saves lives. Far more than for most laws.

 

[vegas giants]

He's incapable of 2nd level thinking and digging into the stats... For example, Wyoming is one of the top 10 states that he's talking about (might even be the highest?) ... But if you dig into the statistics a bit, you will find that Wyoming has one of the lowest homicide rates in the country, but has (I think the highest?) suicide rate. He wants to oversimplify everything, which leads him to false conclusions...

Your inability to accept the evidence is clear. The evidence gun control saves lives is very strong but difficult to see with your head in the sand.

 

[gfm7175]

Like the tax cut? Like a thousand other laws? There is plenty of evidence that gun control saves lives. Far more than for most laws.

I would have to get into a very deep discussion concerning taxation history to answer your first question, and I don't have the time for that. Your second question I agree with.

There is not plenty evidence of it. If there is, show me, and don't show me that study which refuted itself...

 

[vegas giants]

I would have to get into a very deep discussion concerning taxation history to answer your first question, and I don't have the time for that. Your second question I agree with.

There is not plenty evidence of it. If there is, show me, and don't show me that study which refuted itself...

You can not see the evidence. Your blinders will not allow it. But as I said it is completely unecessary for a law.

 

[gfm7175]

Your inability to accept the evidence is clear. The evidence gun control saves lives is very strong but difficult to see with your head in the sand.

Actually, the evidence is difficult to see when you don't actually show it to me... I can't accept evidence which you have not provided. And the one link you did provide me refuted itself if you actually read the article beyond just the headline...

You need more than just "most of the top 10 gun death states are generally GOP states"... This issue is MUCH more complex than that... If you are unwilling to discuss the complexities and deeper specifics of this issue, then that's on you...

 

[vegas giants]

Actually, the evidence is difficult to see when you don't actually show it to me... I can't accept evidence which you have not provided. And the one link you did provide me refuted itself if you actually read the article beyond just the headline...

You need more than just "most of the top 10 gun death states are generally GOP states"... This issue is MUCH more complex than that... If you are unwilling to discuss the complexities and deeper specifics of this issue, then that's on you...

I NEED not do anything. No law requires it. But I will

Handgun waiting periods reduce gun deaths | Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences

 

[gfm7175]

I NEED not do anything. No law requires it. But I will

Handgun waiting periods reduce gun deaths | Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3084706

Read through this rebuttal for someone who can word things much better than I can, but in short, the methodology of this study is flawed and the study was done by people who purposely wanted to find a pro gun control result... it doesn't follow specific people, and it seems to be more mathematically based than actually looking at individual cases... These people found seven other results which had no effect on gun death numbers, but solely focused on the one part which may/may not have an effect... In conclusion, this study did not convince me that waiting periods save lives.

 

[vegas giants]

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3084706

Read through this rebuttal for someone who can word things much better than I can, but in short, the methodology of this study is flawed and the study was done by people who purposely wanted to find a pro gun control result... it doesn't follow specific people, and it seems to be more mathematically based than actually looking at individual cases... These people found seven other results which had no effect on gun death numbers, but solely focused on the one part which may/may not have an effect... In conclusion, this study did not convince me that waiting periods save lives.

Gary Kleck is a known pro gun supporter. I will be happy later to provide more information how his work is openly dismissed and biased

 

[Rucker61]

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3084706

Read through this rebuttal for someone who can word things much better than I can, but in short, the methodology of this study is flawed and the study was done by people who purposely wanted to find a pro gun control result... it doesn't follow specific people, and it seems to be more mathematically based than actually looking at individual cases... These people found seven other results which had no effect on gun death numbers, but solely focused on the one part which may/may not have an effect... In conclusion, this study did not convince me that waiting periods save lives.

More importantly, if a waiting period of x days saves y lives, and that's sufficient cause "saving Y lives" to implement a waiting period of x days, wouldn't x+1 days waiting period save y+z lives? If the moral imperative is to save lives, and the state has the power to impose a waiting period, wouldn't moral imperative to make the waiting period as long as possible to save the most lives?

 

[vegas giants]

More importantly, if a waiting period of x days saves y lives, and that's sufficient cause "saving Y lives" to implement a waiting period of x days, wouldn't x+1 days waiting period save y+z lives? If the moral imperative is to save lives, and the state has the power to impose a waiting period, wouldn't moral imperative to make the waiting period as long as possible to save the most lives?

No. A 55 mph speed limit can be the law. A 54 mph might save more lives but the balance must be struck between saving lives and the needs of people to get places. It a balance of rights

 

[Rucker61]

No. A 55 mph speed limit can be the law. A 54 mph might save more lives but the balance must be struck between saving lives and the needs of people to get places. It a balance of rights

So what is the balance with waiting periods? At what point does my ability to take my gun home some number of days after purchase outweigh the number of lives lost because the waiting period wasn't longer?

 

[gfm7175]

Gary Kleck is a known pro gun supporter. I will be happy later to provide more information how his work is openly dismissed and biased

I don't care whether he is a pro gun supporter or not, just as I don't care if the people behind your linked study are anti gun or not. But like I said, the people in your study purposely picked out the only part of their findings which found that waiting periods MAY or MAY NOT save lives (because all other gun control measures they looked at showed no effect), but yet they mistakenly ran with that finding because that's what they wanted their study to find. Bad methodology, period.

 

[gfm7175]

No. A 55 mph speed limit can be the law. A 54 mph might save more lives but the balance must be struck between saving lives and the needs of people to get places. It a balance of rights

Exactly... slower speed limits cause inconveniences to law abiding drivers who don't cause accidents, just like waiting periods cause inconveniences to law abiding gun purchasers who don't cause gun deaths... Why is one inconvenience okay with you but not the other?

 

[vegas giants]

I don't care whether he is a pro gun supporter or not, just as I don't care if the people behind your linked study are anti gun or not. But like I said, the people in your study purposely picked out the only part of their findings which found that waiting periods MAY or MAY NOT save lives (because all other gun control measures they looked at showed no effect), but yet they mistakenly ran with that finding because that's what they wanted their study to find. Bad methodology, period.

Find another critic of the study and I will be happy to look at it. Kleck is biased and I see no one joined him in his criticism which is common practice. Kleck's work on defensive gun uses has been widely discredited and he is a well recognized arm of the pro gun movement.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262

 

[vegas giants]

Exactly... slower speed limits cause inconveniences to law abiding drivers who don't cause accidents, just like waiting periods cause inconveniences to law abiding gun purchasers who don't cause gun deaths... Why is one inconvenience okay with you but not the other?

Speed limits are a inconveinence. I support them

Gun waiting periods are an inconveinence. I support them.

Where is the contradiction?