Would you respond this way?

[Henrin]

OMG! CALL the cops . . . . Oh, maybe not.

That is exactly the thing I had his ass and he knew it.

 

[ChrisL]

That is exactly the thing I had his ass and he knew it.

Doubtful, but you can think that. :lol:

 

[ChrisL]

But not illegeal AFAIK.

It is ILLEGAL to fight the police.

 

[Henrin]

Doubtful, but you can think that. :lol:

You should understand the law a bit better. That series of questions cops run away from for a reason. Most people don't know the law good enough to catch cops doing it, but I do.

 

[Hard Truth]

That is why we have court-appointed lawyers. If she wasn't doing anything wrong and she is a citizen, then she has nothing to worry about and there is absolutely no need to make a spectacle of yourself in such a way.

Chances are she will be held for several hours and then the charges will be dropped. She will be punished with those hours in jail without a conviction. Her only recourse will be a lawsuit which will probably go nowhere and cost her a few hundred dollars.

 

[radcen]

He could have detained you if he wanted to. You do know that? Especially since you refused to give him your name. He can take you to the station and detain you until he finds out your identity.

I mean if you want to make a big stink about being asked your name, you go right ahead, but that is counterproductive for YOU.

Based on what? Did he commit a crime? Even in states that don't require ID the police still have to have a legitimate reason to detain you to begin with. Legally, at least.

What exactly are you claiming here anyway? Please spell it out. Are you suggesting that these police officers are not properly trained and did not do their jobs correctly?

Are you suggesting that if a citizen is uncooperative and fights with the police that they should NOT detain the person but instead play psychologist? Sorry, but that is NOT the role of a police officer. A police officer's role is to be concerned with the immediate safety of ALL citizens as well as his fellow officers.

Now, you can go and say that "she didn't look dangerous to me." But that really probably means nothing to your average street cop.

I have zero doubt that these officers did their job "properly", as in according to their training and their department's policies. I am saying that their training was and is flawed.

If that's all you got from my many posts in this thread, then you're not even slightly interested in an honest conversation.

What are you suggesting then? That's pretty much what you're saying, that the police were the ones out of control and that the girl is an innocent victim of their "brutality." :roll:

Point proven. You aren't even paying attention to what we're saying. You're just skimming and cherry-picking the parts you want, then assigning your own desired definitions to the parts you want.

Your chance for redemption: Please read through this entire thread and pick out the posts where I said she was innocent of any measure of escalation. Then, report back that you didn't find any (because they don't exist), AND also report back that I have at least twice said quite distinctly that she contributed to the escalation in her own way.

 

[Hard Truth]

Oh really? Well list ALL of those cases where people are deported for being immigrants when they are really American citizens.....

"....The son of a decorated Vietnam veteran, Hector Veloz is a U.S. citizen, but in 2007 immigration officials mistook him for an illegal immigrant and locked him in an Arizona prison for 13 months.

Veloz had to prove his citizenship from behind bars. An aunt helped him track down his father's birth certificate and his own, his parents' marriage certificate, his father's school, military and Social Security records.

After nine months, a judge determined that he was a citizen, but immigration authorities appealed the decision. He was detained for five more months before he found legal help and a judge ordered his case dropped.

"It was a nightmare," said Veloz, 37, a Los Angeles air conditioning installer.

Veloz is one of hundreds of U.S. citizens who have landed in the custody of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and struggled to prove they don't belong there, according to advocacy groups and legal scholars, who have tracked such cases around the country. Some citizens have been deported.

By law, immigration authorities have jurisdiction only over noncitizens. Citizens, whether native-born or naturalized, cannot be deported.

As ICE increased its collaboration with state and local police and prisons under changes to immigration laws and policies in recent years, some detainees who have had a run-in with the law drop through a trapdoor from the criminal justice system into deportation proceedings.

In immigration detention it falls to the detainees to prove their citizenship. But detainees don't have the constitutional protections, such as the right to legal counsel, that would help them prove their case.

And many of those who wind up in immigration custody are frequently those who might have the most difficulty proving their citizenship. Many were born abroad and acquired citizenship through a U.S.-born parent, like Veloz, or a parent who became a naturalized citizen. Some have mental health problems. And frequently they are poor, as those who can afford a lawyer get out more quickly.."

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/U-S-citizens-wrongly-detained-deported-by-ICE-3291041.php

 

[ChrisL]

Chances are she will be held for several hours and then the charges will be dropped. She will be punished with those hours in jail without a conviction. Her only recourse will be a lawsuit which will probably go nowhere and cost her a few hundred dollars.

Which all could have been avoided had she given her name. She could have been on her way, but instead she made a stupid decision that hurts nobody else except HER. :roll: If only people had brains.

 

[radcen]

Chances are she will be held for several hours and then the charges will be dropped. She will be punished with those hours in jail without a conviction. Her only recourse will be a lawsuit which will probably go nowhere and cost her a few hundred dollars.

I think you're mostly right, but I think they'll try to plea bargain with her to get her to plead guilty to some lesser crap charge just so they got her for something.

 

[Henrin]

Here is thing, the fourth amendment is a bitch, and since he was detaining me without just cause he was in violation of the law, and yes Chris, I had his ass on a platter. Was I being stubborn? Sure, I was. That however doesn't matter to the case.

 

[ChrisL]

"....The son of a decorated Vietnam veteran, Hector Veloz is a U.S. citizen, but in 2007 immigration officials mistook him for an illegal immigrant and locked him in an Arizona prison for 13 months.

Veloz had to prove his citizenship from behind bars. An aunt helped him track down his father's birth certificate and his own, his parents' marriage certificate, his father's school, military and Social Security records.

After nine months, a judge determined that he was a citizen, but immigration authorities appealed the decision. He was detained for five more months before he found legal help and a judge ordered his case dropped.

"It was a nightmare," said Veloz, 37, a Los Angeles air conditioning installer.

Veloz is one of hundreds of U.S. citizens who have landed in the custody of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and struggled to prove they don't belong there, according to advocacy groups and legal scholars, who have tracked such cases around the country. Some citizens have been deported.

By law, immigration authorities have jurisdiction only over noncitizens. Citizens, whether native-born or naturalized, cannot be deported.

As ICE increased its collaboration with state and local police and prisons under changes to immigration laws and policies in recent years, some detainees who have had a run-in with the law drop through a trapdoor from the criminal justice system into deportation proceedings.

In immigration detention it falls to the detainees to prove their citizenship. But detainees don't have the constitutional protections, such as the right to legal counsel, that would help them prove their case.

And many of those who wind up in immigration custody are frequently those who might have the most difficulty proving their citizenship. Many were born abroad and acquired citizenship through a U.S.-born parent, like Veloz, or a parent who became a naturalized citizen. Some have mental health problems. And frequently they are poor, as those who can afford a lawyer get out more quickly.."

Most people have easy access to their paperwork. I don't know what the problem was in this particular situation, but I'm quite SURE this is not the norm and certainly not the case in this particular situation that we are discussing.

It's in YOUR best interest to have your proof of citizenship readily available for when it is requested. I am ALL for cracking down on illegal immigration, so I don't have a problem with detaining a person who's citizenship is questionable.

 

[ChrisL]

I think you're mostly right, but I think they'll try to plea bargain with her to get her to plead guilty to some lesser crap charge just so they got her for something.

Was she arrested? What are the charges?

 

[Hard Truth]

I thought they were? I thought there was an independent entity that investigated any kind of police wrongdoings? I mean, I could be wrong, but that's what I thought.

Enforcement of police misconduct accusations are handled differently in every jurisdiction. Sometimes it is investigated by another police officer only, sometimes there are independent agencies. In California a court ruled that officer's employee privacy rights trump the public's right to an open process, so now all findings are made in secret and all evidence withheld from the public. In most places, a police coverup is likely. If a cop gets fired or criminally for misconduct he was probably unpopular with other officers or the evidence was overwhelming and publcly accessible.

 

[Utility Man]

She Allegedly Went on a Simple Jog in Her Toe Shoes. So Why Did She End Up Screaming and in Handcuffs?

No females present for a search of the suspect? Cha-ching

Guess that graffiti is gonna have to stay on the walls there, the police are obviously too busy catching jaywalkers during the day. :lamo

 

[ChrisL]

Enforcement of police misconduct accusations are handled differently in every jurisdiction. Sometimes it is investigated by another police officer only, sometimes there are independent agencies. In California a court ruled that officer's employee privacy rights trump the public's right to an open process, so now all findings are made in secret and all evidence withheld from the public. In most places, a police coverup is likely. If a cop gets fired or criminally for misconduct he was probably unpopular with other officers or the evidence was overwhelming and publcly accessible.

I really fail to see where the police would be guilty of wrongdoing in this instance. They can legally detain an uncooperative person. :shrug:

If they actually arrested her and brought her up on phony charges, then this might be an issue. Otherwise, I don't see this little temper tantrum getting this silly woman any kind of city money. I certainly hope it doesn't.

 

[ChrisL]

She Allegedly Went on a Simple Jog in Her Toe Shoes. So Why Did She End Up Screaming and in Handcuffs?

No females present for a search of the suspect? Cha-ching

Guess that graffiti is gonna have to stay on the walls there, the police are obviously too busy catching jaywalkers during the day. :lamo

Ha-ha! Look at her face! :lamo Hilarious!

 

[Henrin]

Ha-ha! Look at her face! :lamo Hilarious!

That is kind of a mean response and I doubt you have any experience at all with getting arrested or even the prospect of it.

 

[dolphinocean]

She Allegedly Went on a Simple Jog in Her Toe Shoes. So Why Did She End Up Screaming and in Handcuffs?

No females present for a search of the suspect? Cha-ching

Guess that graffiti is gonna have to stay on the walls there, the police are obviously too busy catching jaywalkers during the day. :lamo

Both of her shoulder joints are hyperextended way beyond normal range of motion. That must hurt a lot. They put her at risk of great bodily harm to the joint capsule and the surrounding soft tissue and dislocation. It's an excessive use of force for not having an I.D. and/or uncooperative on police demand. Where's the probable cause for any violent crime?

 

[ChrisL]

That is kind of a mean response and I doubt you have any experience at all with getting arrested or even the prospect of it.

Still funny. Lol!

 

[ChrisL]

Both of her shoulder joints are hyperextended way beyond normal range of motion. That must hurt a lot. They put her at risk of great bodily harm to the joint capsule and the surrounding soft tissue and dislocation.

Meh, I don't feel sorry for her at all. I'm on the side of the police all the way here. If she can't take the heat, she should cooperate and not act like a little bitch. :shrug: There are assholes everywhere.

 

[Henrin]

Still funny. Lol!

It's not sorry. Laughing at people getting arrested is ignorant bull**** that only people that never got arrested or even had the prospect of getting arrested do.

 

[ChrisL]

It's not sorry. Laughing at people getting arrested is ignorant bull**** that only people that never got arrested or even had the prospect of getting arrested do.

Oh well, it's funny to me. I don't care if you don't like it.

 

[Henrin]

Oh well, it's funny to me. I don't care if you don't like it.

Aren't you even smaller than this girl here? Tell me, how would you deal with it?

 

[dolphinocean]

Meh, I don't feel sorry for her at all. I'm on the side of the police all the way here. If she can't take the heat, she should cooperate and not act like a little bitch. :shrug: There are assholes everywhere.

What crime did you commit? None. I'm more concerned with growing trend of police brutality against ordinary citizens who aren't committing any crime let alone violent crimes. This is the conduct of police tyranny as seen in militarized police state.

 

[Hard Truth]

Which all could have been avoided had she given her name. She could have been on her way, but instead she made a stupid decision that hurts nobody else except HER. :roll: If only people had brains.

I don't think the reports indicated whether she refused to give her name or not. She may have been arrested for not showing her ID, possibly because she did not have it with her. Per case law, is not legal in the USA to arrest someone (who is not diving) for not possessing identifcation, but it still happens with some regularity.