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feel free to wonder on over to the military threads where we had this debate out; soldier. Though to be fair, there was one of me and three or four army bubba's; so admittedly they were outnumbered
feel free to wonder on over to the military threads where we had this debate out; soldier. Though to be fair, there was one of me and three or four army bubba's; so admittedly they were outnumbered
That argument doesn't work. If what your saying is true, we have to stop taking voluntary recruits from out of high school and start drafting from among people in their 20s.
To the extent immaturity does exist among soldiers, it has to be purged, not indulged.
it's not necessarily that they are too immature at all things; it's just that 19-21 year olds tend to be inordinately controlled by their sex organs. Discipline on patrol in a combat zone is very different (easier, in many ways) than discipline relaxing on the FOB. that same aggression and hyper-testosterone that makes one a good combat soldier / Marine also makes one more likely to not give a **** about what the rules say about whether or not you can have sex with the cute (and after a few months, they're all attractive) LCpl from dispersing. In addition, the tendency of stressful situations to throw the sex drive into overdrive is well documented.
I wouldn't call it "immaturity," I'd call it human nature. When you mix any appreciable number of men and women, under practically any circumstances, they're going to be going at it -- and there will be pregnancies, drama, and health issues -- rules, laws, or conditions bedamned. And that goes for people in their teens, 20s, 30s, and on up. I imagine there's un upper age limit where this rule is applicable, but that group's gonna be way too old to be combat effective.
This becomes a problem when a unit doesn't have easy access to all the amenities people are generally used to in everyday life -- amenities which can be found on any major base, but not in a FOB that's basically an abandoned gas station reinforced with sandbags and scrap car-parts.
How am I playing "what if?"
Certain women have the physical capability to be front-line soldiers. That's true. Put them through a meritocratic process of selection.
Then there is the theory that somehow the men majority will not be able to reconcile themselves to the presence of a women minority, which is at least as theoretical as the idea that they will respond favorably. Both are "what-if's."
lol, that's just what they want you to believe.
Those are all valid objections, but I don't think they are insurmountable obstacles.
Thing is, I believe those are problems specific to having any women in the military at all, as opposed to a minority serving in combat roles.
I have a buddy who was in the 101st; which is supposedly one of the 'elite' divisions etc. I remember talking to him and he was complaining (he was an infantry platoon commander) because out of the previous 5 months, his guys had spent about a week and a half in the field with their weapons, and he was getting in trouble for pushing for more field evolutions. It blew me away. We were in the field (also infantry) every week from Tuesday morning through Thursday night; and that was when we were "in garrison". when we were on training deployments (which during one work up was about every other to every third month, and during the second was every single month) we typically spent 2-3 weeks in the field straight.
How does that matter exactly? How does the background of the combat they've seen matters as long as they've seen combat?
Whether you are exchanging fire with hostiles during an all out war or are assaulted by militants during a sole incident you are still involved in combat and have thus 'seen combat'.
Forgive me for not reading all of your comments in this thread, what is it about then if not the ability of females to serve in roles that require the skills of combat and survivability?
you don't have to be living in the field to be training. work smarter, not harder. :lamo
There's also the hygene issue, what with women having bleeding cracks every month. In the U.S. Army, regulations state that a female soldier must be given access to a hot shower, during her cycle. As Oscar pointed out earlier, the chicks getting hot showers and the dudes having to wash their balls in a cold bucket of water is going to breed resentment and damage morale and unit cohesion.
Then, there's the privacy issue. A female might refuse her hot shower and prefer to wash her cooter in a bucket, just like the guys, but she's going to want her privacy. And, God forbid someone accidentally see her washing her *****; then she's going to be screaming sexual harrassment.
Those are all valid objections, but I don't think they are insurmountable obstacles.
Thing is, I believe those are problems specific to having any women in the military at all, as opposed to a minority serving in combat roles.
another point; i've been lots of places where for weeks on end... there just was no "hot water"; unless you happened to leave it out in the sun and it happened to be summer. showers (along with real food, internet, etc) were things that happened to you when you went back to the rear.
bingo. prepare for a large number of 'harrasment' cases followed by a large number of '**** we got caught and i don't want to get in trouble so it's RAPE' cases.
MARINE: Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Essential
I was investigating officer on such a case. guy and (married) girl had been going at it for weeks. one night they happen to get caught by 1SG and she cries rape. fortunately, somewhat, for him he had been recording their sessions. when faced with video evidence of her willingness she then wanted us to charge him for recording her without her consent.
Marines, because sailors aren't allowed to have sheep aboard ship. :lamo
Marines, because sailors aren't allowed to have sheep aboard ship. :lamo
Because combat, at any level, reduces a unit's combat power. The higher the intensity of the combat situation, the better a unit has to be to withstand the loss of more combat power. A three day battle that costs a unit 25% casualties will tell you more about the ability of that unit than a 30 minute firefight, where there are only a few WIA's.
Ass the IDF discovered in '48, the propensity of male soldiers to fall out of the attack to aid a wounded female, even if she wass beyond help, moreso than they would for a wounded male, which weakened the assault effort.
There are housing issues. Infantry units exhibit high levels of unit cohesion--higher than that of support arms units. One of the primary reasons for that, is that they all live together. There's a level of comaradeie that can only be achieved by soldiers living together. Personality conflicts are more readily resolved, because there's no going home at 5:00 and forgetting about the bad day at the office.
There's also the hygene issue, what with women having bleeding cracks every month. In the U.S. Army, regulations state that a female soldier must be given access to a hot shower, during her cycle. As Oscar pointed out earlier, the chicks getting hot showers and the dudes having to wash their balls in a cold bucket of water is going to breed resentment and damage morale and unit cohesion.
Then, there's the privacy issue. A female might refuse her hot shower and prefer to wash her cooter in a bucket, just like the guys, but she's going to want her privacy. And, God forbid someone accidentally see her washing her *****; then she's going to be screaming sexual harrassment.
We're talking about troops on a battlefield; there's no time for all that crap.
Number of Marines Captured in Iraq and Afghanistan Combined: zero (though we had one go native).
Number of Army Personnel Captured.... still rising.
again, come on down to the thread in the warfare forum.
i remember one time we were out combing for three Army guys who had gotten snatched, when over the radio (platoon net) we started up trying to figure out how they'd gotten captured in the first place. I was the CLIC, so I explained that they had been in a convoy that got hit by an IED, and the rest of the convoy had sped up, driven off, and not come back for the downed vic for almost half an hour. Platoon Sgt was furious, wanted to know if the Convoy Commander was going to get court-martialed, etc. I had to explain that it turned out that that was actually the units SOP for dealing with an IED attack... long pause, and then a (unidentified) long-suffering voice came over the net; "Well, if they're going to be retarted, I say **** em". you kinda had to be there, and looking back it was pretty ****ty of us considering those guys were for all we knew being tortured at that moment, but we laughed until we cried.
I happen to know that, but I do not see where the different gender problem kicks in.
I believe they are using the same water for the entire unit. If the water is hot for one soldier it is also hot for another.
If there's time for them to shower then there's time for 'that crap'.
In the case of war you usually don't get to shower at all when you're deep within the field.
So, what's the Corps's SOP? To stay in the kill zone? Please, tell me I'm wrong.
Fair enough, but I can tell you that female soldiers have indeed seen combat in the 2006 war in Lebanon and the 2009 one in Gaza. The former lasted 34 days and the latter three weeks.
The "discovery" in '48 was rejected in '95 if I'm not wrong, and from there onwards female involvement in combat roles has been increasing drastically from year to year. Otherwise females would not have been allowed to serve in front-line combat units these days, right?
I happen to know that, but I do not see where the different gender problem kicks in.
I believe they are using the same water for the entire unit. If the water is hot for one soldier it is also hot for another.
Shower time rotations, we also have it non-combat units, no problem there.
If there's time for them to shower then there's time for 'that crap'.
In the case of war you usually don't get to shower at all when you're deep within the field.
Turn and assault. under no circumstances ever are you to leave three of your guys, wounded, in a downed vic while you flee to safety.
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