Women in Texas Are Turning To Black-Market Abortion Drugs

[TeleKat]

Great. Restrict abortion, abortion continues to happen and becomes significantly more dangerous. It would be nice if we could just write a law banning all the stuff we don't like, unfortunately that never works and usually has disastrous, unintended consequences. We saw that with alcohol prohibition, we see that with marijuana prohibition, we see that with gun prohibition, and abortion prohibition has proved and is proving to be no different.

The Rise of the DIY Abortion in Texas - The Atlantic

 

[The German]

And it`s in the South... suprise.

just saying.

 

[jamesrage]

Great. Restrict abortion, abortion continues to happen and becomes significantly more dangerous. It would be nice if we could just write a law banning all the stuff we don't like, unfortunately that never works and usually has disastrous, unintended consequences. We saw that with alcohol prohibition, we see that with marijuana prohibition, we see that with gun prohibition, and abortion prohibition has proved and is proving to be no different.

The Rise of the DIY Abortion in Texas - The Atlantic

You do realize that pro-lifers(actual pro-lifers, not liars who claim to be personally pro-life but vote pro-choice) see abortion on demand as nothing more than legalized murder? So this going abortion is getting dangerous amounts to saying boo hoo some criminal shot himself or some burglar got shot or some car jacker got ran over.

 

[Visbek]

I'm pro-choice. But I don't think the "Prohibition" argument works.

Prohibition works when the majority agrees with it. Prohibitions on alcohol or marijuana don't work, because most of the public doesn't really support it anymore.

Prohibitions on unpasteurized cheese, for the most part, works. You have to go out of your way to break that particular regulation, and the very idea doesn't occur to the vast majority of citizens.

Murder is prohibited, and yet we still have homicides. There's little doubt that prohibiting murder has beneficial social effects, even if the prohibition is not 100% effective.

As we already see: Those who believe that abortion is unethical will not have any sympathy for anyone who suffers as a result of a black market abortion. I.e. working around prohibitions (or a lack of access) does not resolve the underlying ethical conflict.

 

[nota bene]

Great. Restrict abortion, abortion continues to happen and becomes significantly more dangerous. It would be nice if we could just write a law banning all the stuff we don't like, unfortunately that never works and usually has disastrous, unintended consequences. We saw that with alcohol prohibition, we see that with marijuana prohibition, we see that with gun prohibition, and abortion prohibition has proved and is proving to be no different.

The Rise of the DIY Abortion in Texas - The Atlantic

Very little in the Atlantic article is actually about Texas; it's mainly about Central and South America. The link on page one is to a 2013 Bloomberg article stating that Texas women MAY turn to the abortion pill that was picked up by ThinkProgress, CommonDreams, Jezebel, and etc.

And their faithful soldiers elsewhere. :roll:

 

[TeleKat]

Very little in the Atlantic article is actually about Texas; it's mainly about Central and South America. The link on page one is to a 2013 Bloomberg article stating that Texas women MAY turn to the abortion pill that was picked up by ThinkProgress, CommonDreams, Jezebel, and etc.

And their faithful soldiers elsewhere. :roll:

The article is multiple pages long. The later pages go into the situation in Texas, an introduction to the pill and it's effects, etc.

In order to predict exactly what's going to happen in Texas, they do draw from similar situations that happened elsewhere. That's necessary because you'll have the hacks that claim this is "no big deal" and that it's "being hyped up and exaggerated."

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Great. Restrict abortion, abortion continues to happen and becomes significantly more dangerous. It would be nice if we could just write a law banning all the stuff we don't like, unfortunately that never works and usually has disastrous, unintended consequences. We saw that with alcohol prohibition, we see that with marijuana prohibition, we see that with gun prohibition, and abortion prohibition has proved and is proving to be no different.

The Rise of the DIY Abortion in Texas - The Atlantic

Every successful abortion results in the tragic death of an innocent child. This makes it, by definition, already pretty dangerous.

You're trying to gain sympathy for murderers and attempted murderers who harm themselves in the process of trying to murder their child. Where is the sympathy for the child who is the real victim of such a savage act?

 

[TeleKat]

I'm pro-choice. But I don't think the "Prohibition" argument works.

Prohibition works when the majority agrees with it. Prohibitions on alcohol or marijuana don't work, because most of the public doesn't really support it anymore.

Prohibitions on unpasteurized cheese, for the most part, works. You have to go out of your way to break that particular regulation, and the very idea doesn't occur to the vast majority of citizens.

Murder is prohibited, and yet we still have homicides. There's little doubt that prohibiting murder has beneficial social effects, even if the prohibition is not 100% effective.

As we already see: Those who believe that abortion is unethical will not have any sympathy for anyone who suffers as a result of a black market abortion. I.e. working around prohibitions (or a lack of access) does not resolve the underlying ethical conflict.

There are a majority of people, and the numbers are growing, of people that don't agree with abortion prohibition. The effects of prohibition are important to highlight and understand in any legislative environment. You have to weigh the costs of banning versus not banning. There are better ways to lower abortion rates than to ban it. Abortion does not involve malicious intent. Women don't get purposefully pregnant so they can kill their fetus. There are reasons that abortion happens and we'd do well to try to understand why instead of just banning it. Society in general seems to have this propensity for banning everything willy nilly as if some words on a piece of paper are going to do anything. People are stuck in this paradigm that banning stuff and making laws is going to make the world a perfect place and solve all our problems. That's not how the real world works. To advocate for a law banning abortions is to simply mark a ballot and forget about the problem at hand. We must work towards pragmatic solutions to our problems, not banning everything we don't like.

Simply put: By encouraging the use of contraception and educating about abortion we can have a far greater effect on abortion rates than simply banning it.

 

[nota bene]

The article is multiple pages long. The later pages go into the situation in Texas, an introduction to the pill and it's effects, etc.

In order to predict exactly what's going to happen in Texas, they do draw from similar situations that happened elsewhere. That's necessary because you'll have the hacks that claim this is "no big deal" and that it's "being hyped up and exaggerated."

I read the article; it's 4 pages long. Yes, the author of the Atlantic piece draws very, very heavily on similar situations in Central and South America. Don't try to justify all the speculation by saying that it's "necessary" to counterbalance all the hacks. One hack is no better than another.

And BTW, a bus trip to Mexico City is very cheap, and abortions are available for anybody for any reason there.

 

[JayDubya]

Great. Restrict abortion, abortion continues to happen and becomes significantly more dangerous.

Yes, the black market has some consequences.

Those consequences are desirable when talking about contract killing.

I actually prefer it to be dangerous for those who want to violently kill other human beings in aggression; beyond these simple physical risks, they should live in fear of being thrown in prison forever for these homicides. You'd need to explain to me why I would want it to be easy and comfortable to kill other human beings, and that would require quite a rhetorical feat.


I realize we ostensibly share the same lean and all, but please note that I adhere to and like the non-aggression principle so much so precisely because I abhor aggression and want a night watchman state to prevent it. I don't think laws against homicide are obtrusive, indeed, I think they are the minimum form government can take.

And I believe all humans are created equal, and that we all have rights, unalienable and natural. So this means that I don't want any of us killed in aggression.

 

[Lursa]

Many pro-lifers will tell you...some here clearly admit...that they deserve any pain or death as the consequences of 'murdering a baby.'

That's the "compassionate rationale" of the more dedicated pro-lifers. Doesnt seem to register to them that there is no murder, no baby, and that women have a right to their own lives, health, and futures.

You can tell them...they dont care about the women.

 

[JayDubya]

Abortion does not involve malicious intent.

False. Premeditated homicide does involve malice aforethought.

 

[prometeus]

You do realize that pro-lifers(actual pro-lifers, not liars who claim to be personally pro-life but vote pro-choice) see abortion on demand as nothing more than legalized murder?

And who gives a crap what backwards ignorants and religious zealots think. What gives you the idea that it is OK to impose such closed mindedness on others?

 

[Renae]

And who gives a crap what backwards ignorants and religious zealots think. What gives you the idea that it is OK to impose such closed mindedness on others?

What makes your view that abortion is not murder okay? Because you think it should be?

See, you're just playing the demonize your opponents route because you have no real argument. Abortion, is a tough emotional discussion because BOTH sides tend to break down into the emotional/petty of things. I'm guilty of it. I DO think Abortion is murdering an innocent child, one whose existence they had no say over. "Hey, I'm here... wait, nooooo..." is about all they get. There are cases where abortion is a proper, if sad choice to make. But the free wheeling abortions "on demand" IS wrong.

It's wrong because a child's life is ended. It's wrong because it cheapens life. It's wrong because it makes secual prmosecuity "easier". That goes for men AND women. It's wrong, because, a CHILD'S LIFE, ends.

You can argue about it's being "the woman's body!" all day, and we can have that discussion. You can argue that the child isn't really a child because of gestation period. We can have that discussion. Demonizing those against abortion as backwards, ignorant or religious zealots makes you merely a hypocrite of the highest order.

 

[1750Texan]

You do realize that pro-lifers(actual pro-lifers, not liars who claim to be personally pro-life but vote pro-choice) see abortion on demand as nothing more than legalized murder? So this going abortion is getting dangerous amounts to saying boo hoo some criminal shot himself or some burglar got shot or some car jacker got ran over.

So the claim by Texas GOP was bull****. Texas Republicans claim this law was passed for the protection of women when having a lawful abortion...? So in fact, Texas conservatives liars were all along purposefully attempting to close lawful clinics to stop lawful abortions in the state of Texas.

Why did they have to lie about their true intent. If a majority of Americans want to repeal RvW...Why not be truthful, honest and upfront to the people of Texas?

 

[1750Texan]

False. Premeditated homicide does involve malice aforethought.

Again, please look up the differences in Homicide, infanticide, and feticide. Words have meaning.

 

[Removable Mind]

False. Premeditated homicide does involve malice aforethought.

Justifiable homicide works then. Abortion is lawful now. It has been for nearly a half century. Don't you read the news?

 

[JayDubya]

Again, please look up the differences in Homicide, infanticide, and feticide. Words have meaning.

Infanticide is a specific form of homicide.
Feticide is a specific form of homicide.

Fratricide / patricide / matricide is a specific form of homicide.


All are homicide.

Yes, words mean things. Per usual, I used them correctly.

 

[JayDubya]

Justifiable homicide works then.

No it doesn't, as you cannot justify an aggressive homicide.

 

[Removable Mind]

No it doesn't, as you cannot justify an aggressive homicide.

The law does...that's all that matters.

 

[Lursa]

It's wrong because a child's life is ended. It's wrong because it cheapens life. It's wrong because it makes secual prmosecuity "easier". That goes for men AND women. It's wrong, because, a CHILD'S LIFE, ends.
.

It's not murder, it's not a child, and it cheapens ALL women's lives if you allow strangers or the govt to tell them what is best for their lives, health, and futures. You treat THEM like children, like 2nd class citizens like in the past.

And please tell me what is wrong with casual sex (promiscuity :doh)? People enjoy sex, why should women not be allowed to do that? Or have to wait to be married or doesnt want kids or what about couples that are married and cant afford a kid/anymore kids? Your divorce rate goes skyhigh if they cant have sex anymore.

 

[AGENT J]

(actual pro-lifers, not liars who claim to be personally pro-life but vote pro-choice)

i laugh at this fallacy and nonsensical opinion pushed as fact everytime i see it, thank you lol

 

[AGENT J]

once again
same thing different thread

Lets reflect on truths and reality

things that can not be factually stated about abortion

its murder
its aggressive homicide
its premeditated homicide of an innocent human being
its done for convenience by irresponsible, slutty and or responsibility dodging women
its only/mostly done by the poor, or godless or minorities

none of these can be posted as fact
if anybody disagrees simply please bring forward the facts the prove otherwise, thank you

 

[JayDubya]

The law does...that's all that matters.

No, it doesn't.

Unless you can justify an aggressive killing, SCotUS may have made its stupid ruling but that's all it is, stupid, meritless, lacking in substance and unable to be logically supported.

 

[Removable Mind]

No, it doesn't.

Unless you can justify an aggressive killing, SCotUS may have made its stupid ruling but that's all it is, stupid, meritless, lacking in substance and unable to be logically supported.

Of course abortion is justified...and always will be. I don't care what you think the SC is or isn't. It's not thing but logic that women have equal rights to due process as men.