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Will the men in the Arbery shooting be convicted?

Will the defendents in the arbery trial be found innocent or guilty

  • They will be found not guilty

    Votes: 8 12.1%
  • They will be found guilty

    Votes: 58 87.9%

  • Total voters
    66
There isn't a case for innocence. What they admitted to was against the law, as the judge read it.
As I understand it...and I didnt follow the case closely...the judge ruled that the defense argument of citizens arrest was not allowed...not the argument of self defense.

but we shall see.
 
As I understand it...and I didnt follow the case closely...the judge ruled that the defense argument of citizens arrest was not allowed...not the argument of self defense.

but we shall see.
If citizen's arrest wasn't at play, it was false imprisonment, and aggravated assault, and they were the aggressors, they can not claim self defense.
 
" if they are guilty then they will be"

Is an incredibly naïve take on your legal system as Kevin Strickland will attest.
I believe that there are statutory minimums so that even if the judge wanted to be sympathetic to the lynch mob, he could only do so much. But I agree with the consensus: this judge does not appear to be even remotely identifying with the defense. His background suggests he's probably an ideological centrist or moderate. If these guys are convicted, their days as free men are probably over.
 
If they ignore the judge’s interpretation of the citizens arrest law.
As I understand it, the argument for citizens arrest was eliminated...which makes their action of chasing him a crime. However the self defense argument is still valid.

We shall see.
 
Also, they were able to argue citizen's arrest, they just misinterpreted the law and admitted to the crimes.
 
As I understand it...and I didnt follow the case closely...the judge ruled that the defense argument of citizens arrest was not allowed...not the argument of self defense.

but we shall see.

He ruled on how the jury should interpret the citizens arrest law.
 
As I understand it, the argument for citizens arrest was eliminated...which makes their action of chasing him a crime. However the self defense argument is still valid.

We shall see.
The person defending himself was Arbery. He tried to get away and they wouldn’t let him.
 
Based on what key evidence? The prosecution has a slam dunk in terms of evidence here. A jury could of course go either way because of how ****ed up people are, but what prompts you to think these bozos are innocent on all counts?
Because, the citizens arrest law in Georgia in effect at the time permitted one to make an arrest for someone fleeing from the commission of a felony. All of the evidence makes it clear that Arbery was committing a burglary in that property. It was reasonable to confront Arbery armed because the police and told the McMichaels they considered the suspect in this long reign of burglaries to be armed. When they went in to make the citizens arrest, Arbery charged Travis McMichael and attempted to fight for his gun.

Also The McMichaels both have a law enforcement background and have been trained to assume a gun grab is a deadly force assault.

The prosecutions argument can be summarized as “evil white men were so mean to this felon by not letting him continue to terrorize the neighborhood”
 
As I understand it...and I didnt follow the case closely...the judge ruled that the defense argument of citizens arrest was not allowed...not the argument of self defense.

but we shall see.
They can make the claim of self-defense. A claim is either valid or not. Based on the judge's definition of self-defense, the defendant's claims of self-defense are not valid. The defense can reiterate their claims in their closing arguments, but the jury has the rules, instructions, and guidelines by which they must abide - something the foreperson reminds them of, and tries to reinforce. That doesn't mean you can't get the occasional rogue juror, but this is something that the system tries hard to root such characters out before they are in a position to cause harm.
 
As I understand it, the argument for citizens arrest was eliminated...which makes their action of chasing him a crime. However the self defense argument is still valid.

We shall see.
No, that was reversed. The judge was going to issue a completely unfounded jury instruction on Friday which would’ve done that. Then on Monday realized that instruction would’ve been reversible error and given the McMichael’s a strong appeal and so he issued a new instruction simply quoting the citizens arrest statute
 
Because, the citizens arrest law in Georgia in effect at the time permitted one to make an arrest for someone fleeing from the commission of a felony. All of the evidence makes it clear that Arbery was committing a burglary in that property. It was reasonable to confront Arbery armed because the police and told the McMichaels they considered the suspect in this long reign of burglaries to be armed. When they went in to make the citizens arrest, Arbery charged Travis McMichael and attempted to fight for his gun.

Also The McMichaels both have a law enforcement background and have been trained to assume a gun grab is a deadly force assault.

The prosecutions argument can be summarized as “evil white men were so mean to this felon by not letting him continue to terrorize the neighborhood”
They had no knowledge of any felony committed that day that he was fleeing from. The arrest must be immediately after the offense, or while the suspect is fleeing from an offense that was in their presence or immediate knowledge. They told police that day they didn't know what he was doing, Gregory just saw him running by.
 
The person defending himself was Arbery. He tried to get away and they wouldn’t let him.
Arbery is not on trial and so his claim of self defense is not relevant. Under all traditional rules of self defense Travis McMichael has a claim of self defense. They also had the legal right to detain Arbery for a residential burglary he had just committed
 
They had no knowledge of any felony committed that day that he was fleeing from. The arrest must be immediately after the offense, or while the suspect is fleeing from an offense that was in their presence or immediate knowledge. They told police that day they didn't know what he was doing, Gregory just saw him running by.
That’s not what the law says.

Also the McMichaels had knowledge he was just in the house, and they had reasonable grounds of suspicion that he was the suspect from the previous burglary
 
Arbery is not on trial and so his claim of self defense is not relevant. Under all traditional rules of self defense Travis McMichael has a claim of self defense. They also had the legal right to detain Arbery for a residential burglary he had just committed

What residential burglary and who saw it happen?
 
That’s not what the law says.

Also the McMichaels had knowledge he was just in the house, and they had reasonable grounds of suspicion that he was the suspect from the previous burglary

Then why did they tell the authorities that they had no knowledge that he did anything wrong?
 
They can make the claim of self-defense. A claim is either valid or not. Based on the judge's definition of self-defense, the defendant's claims of self-defense are not valid. The defense can reiterate their claims in their closing arguments, but the jury has the rules, instructions, and guidelines by which they must abide - something the foreperson reminds them of, and tries to reinforce. That doesn't mean you can't get the occasional rogue juror, but this is something that the system tries hard to root such characters out before they are in a position to cause harm.
That also is as I understand it. Take away the misapplication of Georgia law regarding citizens arrrest. Ignore the fact that it is apparently so poorly written that even the judge couldnt make a ruling on it until after closing arguments (which likely created the basis for a call for a mistrial). What you then have is Arbery and the others face to face, and no longer is Arbery considered the criminal (which they all assumed) but now it is the defendants who are considered the cirminals (which NONE of them at the time assumed). Two groups...face to face...what happens next. That is a foundation for a self defense case.
 
You're not wrong in that Zimmerman is responsible for killing Martin. The law is responsible for encouraging idiots like Zimmerman for taking the law into their own hands. I wouldn't change the way juries decide innocence and guilt - that could backfire in the worst way. But I'd definitely change the laws to prevent the deputization of white men.
The Law (the dispatcher) told him to stay in his truck. So much for the law.
 
That’s not what the law says.

Also the McMichaels had knowledge he was just in the house, and they had reasonable grounds of suspicion that he was the suspect from the previous burglary
They didn't know he was there that day, and 2 weeks before when Travis saw him (which is the burglary they say they were arresting him for), Gregory said it was criminal trespass, not burglary. The law does say it must be immediately after the offense.
Watch from 29:00 on as the judge explains it to you.

 
Then why did they tell the authorities that they had no knowledge that he did anything wrong?
They told them they suspected him of being the burglary suspect. If you had watched the trial you would know that some of the states witnesses themselves conceded the McMichaels knew full well of all thr burglaries of that residence, had a suspect description, had been asked to come armed to assist police during a prior incident, and had been advised that the suspect, who turned out to be Arbery would be considered armed and dangerous
 
They didn't know he was there that day, and 2 weeks before when Travis saw him (which is the burglary they say they were arresting him for), Gregory said it was criminal trespass, not burglary. The law does say it must be immediately after the offense.
Watch from 29:00 on as the judge explains it to you.


Gregory is only one actor here, and in any event, the actions described are burglary even if he used the term trespass
 
They told them they suspected him of being the burglary suspect. If you had watched the trial you would know that some of the states witnesses themselves conceded the McMichaels knew full well of all thr burglaries of that residence, had a suspect description, had been asked to come armed to assist police during a prior incident, and had been advised that the suspect, who turned out to be Arbery would be considered armed and dangerous

You can't make a citizens arrest because you think someone did something -- you have to have witnessed it and then make an immediate arrest.
 
Gregory is only one actor here, and in any event, the actions described are burglary even if he used the term trespass
It wasn't that day. Their right to conduct a citizen's arrest for that "burglary" were extinguished two weeks later, and he wasn't fleeing from that when Gregory saw him running past. They said they had no knowledge of what he was doing that day.
 
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